Paying Players?

[justingroves]

No. I think the current system is a lot like slavery. You give them room and board and then profit many times above what you spent out. Then the boss keeps the all overage.

Don't mis-qoute me

Except they aren't forced to go to college and play sports.


Or what?

 

[DD4ME]

And one more thing about internships that is grossly underestimated. The same companies that would use interns to displace paid workers by making the case that interns get their valuable work experience...what about the value of having a (no-strings-attached) trial run with a promising job prospect? Most internships involve a screening process just like an employment prospect. So, it's not like they are having a box of rocks imposed upon them.

They have the advantage of getting to "kick the tires" of someone they would otherwise have to hire (and pay benefits to) in order to find out for sure if they do indeed fit their needs? A paid internship is a good compromise for both the company and student/intern.

In this case, with regard to student athletes, it's simply a matter of equity. Football athletes are making the program tens of millions of dollars every year, yet their slice of the pie is pittance in comparison. If just one percent of those revenues went to compensate the athletes for their time and skill, why would that be too much to ask?

It would give kids who have lived in poverty all their lives a path to get out of it much more quickly. Again, revenue generating programs will certainly take the value of scholarships into account when considering what percentage players should receive (of commercial revenues; not donations).

If programs aren't bringing money in, then obviously the players won't get much, if anything, apart from their scholarships. That goes for women's athletic programs and all collegiate sports. If your product is in high demand, you reap the benefits. If it's not, you don't. Simple economics. No need to lump football and basketball players together with those on the tennis team or women's volleyball squad.

They aren't commercially viable within or outside of college. Why should sports that are, be penalized or restrained by those that are not? Again, if billions are being paid to watch "amateur" athletics, then how is it truly an amateur establishment? It is not.

That would be like me making $100K per year then telling uncle sam that I don't have to pay any taxes on that because my vocation is a hobby. Uncle Sam doesn't give a damn what label you put on it. If money is being passed around, He's going to get HIS cut!

With that in mind, how in the hell does the NCAA get away with sticking an "Amateur athletics" label on a commercially profitable venture? I hope the courts get flooded with lawsuits against the NCAA and the different conferences. This profiteering racket has gone on long enough. If it got before the Supreme Court, I just about guarantee that they would weigh in favor of the athletes getting more of an equitable return for their services. And it is a service they are providing. It's just a matter of compensation relative to the revenue they generate.

A. Not all athletic programs make money, many don't once they maintain facilities and equipment for these slaves

B. Assuming any government body is going to pay men one amount and women nothing or less is laughable

C. Allowing large profitable programs to pay players does not make a more "fair" system

D. Are the players who are on non-profitable teams still slaves, in this system?

E. Slaves by definition don't have choices, athletes do

F. If education, training, room, board, and medical care are not compensation WTH is it?

G. Let athletes sign endorsement or management deals and keep the money seperate
In this scenario if they can't get one the market says they weren't worth it. If they can good for them. Schools can continue being institutions for learning and training and athletes get paid on the value of their pro careers instead of on their academic ones.
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[justingroves]

A. Not all athletic programs make money, many don't once they maintain facilities and equipment for these slaves

B. Assuming any government body is going to pay men one amount and women nothing or less is laughable

C. Allowing large profitable programs to pay players does not make a more "fair" system

D. Are the players who are on non-profitable teams still slaves, in this system?

E. Slaves by definition don't have choices, athletes do

F. If education, training, room, board, and medical care are not compensation WTH is it?

G. Let athletes sign endorsement or management deals and keep the money seperate
In this scenario if they can't get one the market says they weren't worth it. If they can good for them. Schools can continue being institutions for learning and training and athletes get paid on the value of their pro careers instead of on their academic ones.
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Parents' insurance a lot of times.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Except they aren't forced to go to college and play sports.


Or what?

Football players are FORCED to go to college or they could not play football in a capacity that would allow them to get drafted. Student just have to go to school if they want to go to school. No force. If you want to be a dentist, then just go study dentistry. If you want to play pro ball (like college is much different), you are FORCED to go to college and be a stuent of some random major and be a student of football. Or else!
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[PaceFLVol]

No. I think the current system is a lot like slavery. You give them room and board and then profit many times above what you spent out. Then the boss keeps the all overage. When slavery 'died' the prison system began to take over things on the free labor front and they are prospering nicely as massa did. Never ending supply of free workers to make and keep them rich. YOU said something about white athletes getting exploited. I never separated black and white athletes. They are all being used. Don't mis-qoute me. I ain't a racist either.
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Ya give them room and board and then profit off them. Interesting way of looking at it. I am not sure what the cost of 4 years at Tennessee is, but something tells me ALOT of these kids would NEVER come close to what Tennessee has put into them. How many players never see the field?? Ya think the 50-60,000.00 Tennessee invested in them was well spent? The kid has a chance at a college degree and a chance at the pros without spending a penny out of pocket. These kids do NOT need paid on top of it.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Ya give them room and board and then profit off them. Interesting way of looking at it. I am not sure what the cost of 4 years at Tennessee is, but something tells me ALOT of these kids would NEVER come close to what Tennessee has put into them. How many players never see the field?? Ya think the 50-60,000.00 Tennessee invested in them was well spent? The kid has a chance at a college degree and a chance at the pros without spending a penny out of pocket. These kids do NOT need paid on top of it.

There is no fact to point to that says they don't deserve to get paid. If kids could just skip college and just get football training, most of them would. But since college is the only place to be drafted from, they are FORCED to go there. Nextly, UT puts money into kids they think already are or can be good ballplayers. Who got the kids to that point? The parents, and it ain't cheap. Parents spend plenty on their kids to get them ready to be a college athlete. If you have kids you know this. So there is out of pocket expense. Anything else?
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[DD4ME]

So why not keep schools out of it and simply let them sign endorsement deals etc? That's definately a more market driven approach. It also keeps government and beuracracy out of it. How many of you seriously think women's lacross should be paid monthly? How many of you believe special interest groups would allow women to receive less or 0 while men are getting more or all?
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[salutethehill]

I'm on the fence on the whole thing. I see good agruments on both sides.
My biggest concern is, college football currently is awesome and I would hate for that to change.

Oh, and college football and slavery are nothing alike.

 

[Probably_in_Class]

Only from Massa's point of view is his post overboard. The field "hands" would love to be paid. Trust me, athletes earn their degree just like regular students. Where they differ from regular students is they are also playing these million dollar games for the school (who pays them nothing in return). Which happens to differs little from slavery. Except for the systematic desecration of Africans and the use of widespread rape to create the African-American race of people.
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You're so off base here. Comparing the two is a slap in the face to anyone who actually endured slavery. The only point I've continually seen you make is that players work for "only" room and board, just like slaves. This is completely false. Whether you believe it or not, the free education is a MAJOR benefit. Also:

Athletes are treated to extremely impressive meals daily.
They have access to free tutors to aid in their studies. They have access to note takers so they don't have to even take their own notes in classes.
They have access to professional grade training facilities, trainers, and dieticians.
They spend countless hours with multi-million dollar coaching staffs who are tasked with building them into million dollar athletes.
They are given a ridiculous amount of free clothing.
They receive per diem pay when on campus while classes are not in session.
They are rewarded for strong performance with items like bowl presents and diamond championship rings.

I could list off another 20 or so benefits for college athletes, so in no way are these guys anything like slaves.

 

[DD4ME]

Football players are FORCED to go to college or they could not play football in a capacity that would allow them to get drafted. Student just have to go to school if they want to go to school. No force. If you want to be a dentist, then just go study dentistry. If you want to play pro ball (like college is much different), you are FORCED to go to college and be a stuent of some random major and be a student of football. Or else!
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No they are incentivized to go to college by the degree they get and the training and development they receive, not counting the exposure and free press many garner. They have options like CFL or arena ball. The fact that those options are less profitable for them should tell you the current model works pretty well. If it didn't work for most athletes there would be a farm league that pays better because the market would have already gone that direction. If you want to rant, rant to the NFL. They can drop their draft rules to take players directly out of HS. I'd wager those kids couldn't compete though and would take 2-3 years of coaching at some NFL minimum to meet the needs of a team. I would estimate that cost at 300,000-500,000 which would be equivalent in cost to a free education + training they receive at most major universities. Also these logics assume most players are NFL quality players playing for top 10 profit schools. That's not the bulk of athletes. Many are just grateful to be playing for the Grizzlies or some comparable low level school for some additional glory or fame and stories to tell their kids.
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[Probably_in_Class]

There is no fact to point to that says they don't deserve to get paid. If kids could just skip college and just get football training, most of them would. But since college is the only place to be drafted from, they are FORCED to go there. Nextly, UT puts money into kids they think already are or can be good ballplayers. Who got the kids to that point? The parents, and it ain't cheap. Parents spend plenty on their kids to get them ready to be a college athlete. If you have kids you know this. So there is out of pocket expense. Anything else?
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There are hundreds of facts to point to that say college kids shouldn't be paid. They are amateurs. Local fields charge tickets admissions, concessions, etc. for everything from pee wee to high school games. I'd bet many of those programs profit off the kids. I know my high school did. You want to pay them, too? It's a game, and the fact that these kids receive that much benefit just for playing a game is payment enough. Football is a fun game to play. People tend to forget that...

 

[Elhanan]

There are hundreds of facts to point to that say college kids shouldn't be paid. They are amateurs. Local fields charge tickets admissions, concessions, etc. For everything from pee wee to high school games. I'd bet many of those programs profit off the kids. I know my high school did. You want to pay them, too? It's a game, and the fact that these kids receive that much benefit just for playing a game is payment enough. Football is a fun game to play. People tend to forget that...

That is enough reason for me to say they deserve financial compensation. The "experience" isn't going to cover your medical bills later in life. All the time they spend on the field, in the weight room, and studying film could have been used to further their education or gain real job experience. Sure the future NFL players don't have much to worry about but the the huge % of kids that never go to the NFL do.

And saying "they are amateurs" is a bit of bad logic. We don't pay amateurs and these kids don't get paid so thus they are amateurs. For college athletes I would at least say they far from being actual amateurs. If we had the 1 and done rule like some other college sports a ton of them would be heading to the NFL even sooner. So we set up rules that keep them from going pro, call them amateurs, profit off of their talent and some how thats fair?

 

[PaceFLVol]

There is no fact to point to that says they don't deserve to get paid. If kids could just skip college and just get football training, most of them would. But since college is the only place to be drafted from, they are FORCED to go there. Nextly, UT puts money into kids they think already are or can be good ballplayers. Who got the kids to that point? The parents, and it ain't cheap. Parents spend plenty on their kids to get them ready to be a college athlete. If you have kids you know this. So there is out of pocket expense. Anything else?
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There does not need to be a fact, the NCAA says they CAN'T be paid.

So from the sounds of it you feel after Tennessee pays the kid...maybe they should cut a check to the parents as well so they can recoup the cost of his cleats? How about maybe a kick back to the lil brother who helped the kid toss the ball around when he was 7 and helped him to "good hands" status? Maybe they could drop a 20 spot to Uncle Joe as he drove the kid to one of his games in 1983 and gas is expensive. These kids get plenty..they are FAR from being taken advantage of.

 

[Elhanan]

There does not need to be a fact, the NCAA says they CAN'T be paid.

So from the sounds of it you feel after Tennessee pays the kid...maybe they should cut a check to the parents as well so they can recoup the cost of his cleats? How about maybe a kick back to the lil brother who helped the kid toss the ball around when he was 7 and helped him to "good hands" status? Maybe they could drop a 20 spot to Uncle Joe as he drove the kid to one of his games in 1983 and gas is expensive. These kids get plenty..they are FAR from being taken advantage of.

By that reasoning black players should have never been allowed to play. I think he is saying the rules we are under are flawed and a change would create more fairness.

 

[PaceFLVol]

By that reasoning black players should have never been allowed to play. I think he is saying the rules we are under are flawed and a change would create more fairness.

The rules are not flawed at all. I tend to live in reality and look at things in the present. There will always be someone wanting more. If the NCAA ever decided to allow players to be paid the 300.00 spoke about..in no time people would be saying it needs to be more.

"They used my likeness in a video game" "I should be paid"!!! I say no problem. Here is your 75 dollars, now your tuition is due next week.

"As a player I helped them sell 3 more hotdogs"!! How many free meals do you think a Tennessee football player gets during his 4 years? Hmmmm

 

[MY3*VOLS]

David Climer: Steve Spurrier's pay-for-play plan won't work in real world GoVolsXtra

 

[Elhanan]

“A bunch of us coaches felt so strongly about it that we would be willing to pay it — 70 guys, 300 bucks a game,” Spurrier told a gaggle of reporters.

Not sure some players would be willing to take that kind of pay cut but, hey, that’s a different column for a different day.

lol, that is pretty funny.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

You're so off base here. Comparing the two is a slap in the face to anyone who actually endured slavery. The only point I've continually seen you make is that players work for "only" room and board, just like slaves. This is completely false. Whether you believe it or not, the free education is a MAJOR benefit. Also:

Athletes are treated to extremely impressive meals daily.
They have access to free tutors to aid in their studies. They have access to note takers so they don't have to even take their own notes in classes.
They have access to professional grade training facilities, trainers, and dieticians.
They spend countless hours with multi-million dollar coaching staffs who are tasked with building them into million dollar athletes.
They are given a ridiculous amount of free clothing.
They receive per diem pay when on campus while classes are not in session.
They are rewarded for strong performance with items like bowl presents and diamond championship rings.

I could list off another 20 or so benefits for college athletes, so in no way are these guys anything like slaves.

Don't get stuck on the slavery bit. Football is not like slavery in many ways. Kind of sorry I said it. But college ball is huge business. The integral part of that business, the players, should get some of the money. ESPN + CBS payed huge money for the rights to broadcast football. They did not pay with CBS parkas and ESPN hats. All the stuff given to players can be changed or altered without the players consent. Academic standards can be changed without the players consent. Coaches come and go altering guys careers (many timed for the worse) without the players having any control or input. AD's get thousands in bowl bonuses and players get stuff they have to pawn to get cash. AJ Green sold a jersey for chump change that Georgia easily could have PAID him. The players play a game that generates tangible, immediate money that makes coaches and schools rich and some of that cash should trickle down to the players IMO, obviously not yours. I can leave it at that.
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[Ned Ray McWorkher]

That is enough reason for me to say they deserve financial compensation. The "experience" isn't going to cover your medical bills later in life. All the time they spend on the field, in the weight room, and studying film could have been used to further their education or gain real job experience. Sure the future NFL players don't have much to worry about but the the huge % of kids that never go to the NFL do.

And saying "they are amateurs" is a bit of bad logic. We don't pay amateurs and these kids don't get paid so thus they are amateurs. For college athletes I would at least say they far from being actual amateurs. If we had the 1 and done rule like some other college sports a ton of them would be heading to the NFL even sooner. So we set up rules that keep them from going pro, call them amateurs, profit off of their talent and some how thats fair?

Apparently. Why don't they use volunteer coaches? Why does the coach need money? Why is he paid way more than professors? Shouldn't he do it for a watch or some sort of lovely parting gifts? Can't they find a guy to coach for a school colored sweater vest? Shouldn't he coach for free rounds of golf at the CC? Or a free dealer Lexus? Just wondering.
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