Paying Players?

#26
#26
It will be impossible to control a payscale. What happens to schools already losing money. They can't just pay football players either
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#28
#28
Elhanan said:
They really should pay these guys. These guys earn the money every day and without them the school would be missing out on millions and millions of dollars in revenue. $300 a game isn't so much that make millionaire college student (though I would be cool with that too) but it is a fair wage for services provided.
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just for fun.

how is it a fair wage? the school makes millions and your going to give me $300 and that's going to make people happy?

no one will be happy, because people have the false belief that they are entitled to something that they aren't.

we can have even more fun with this. you think the starting qb is going to be happy being paid the same amount of money as the backup punter? you think the guy from a broke family is going to be happy about getting the same amount of money as a kid from a family that's loaded?

i could continue. if you walk down this path, it creates a multitude of problems. it won't solve anything.

the only way to solve the problem is to let those that want to earn cash now, go out and have that opportunity by having a minor leage (which nba and nfl owners aren't going to jump at the chance to do) and let those who truly want to be in college, be in college.

most of the problems, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, that happen on campus, be it criminal, academic, disciplinary or whatever are from kids who really don't want to be in school in the first place.

let them go. get them out of the university that they don't belong at.
 
#29
#29
99gator said:
just for fun.

how is it a fair wage? the school makes millions and your going to give me $300 and that's going to make people happy?

no one will be happy, because people have the false belief that they are entitled to something that they aren't.

we can have even more fun with this. you think the starting qb is going to be happy being paid the same amount of money as the backup punter? you think the guy from a broke family is going to be happy about getting the same amount of money as a kid from a family that's loaded?

i could continue. if you walk down this path, it creates a multitude of problems. it won't solve anything.

the only way to solve the problem is to let those that want to earn cash now, go out and have that opportunity by having a minor leage (which nba and nfl owners aren't going to jump at the chance to do) and let those who truly want to be in college, be in college.

most of the problems, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, that happen on campus, be it criminal, academic, disciplinary or whatever are from kids who really don't want to be in school in the first place.

let them go. get them out of the university that they don't belong at.
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I would love a minor league. For that matter it would be nice to just get rid of college sports all together and replace them with minor leagues. It is def. the free market alternative.

My approach in my previous post was one that tried to work within the current mindset at most colleges. It also seemed like one that may have a better chance of getting off the ground in todays anti capitalistic culture, but if a minor league could actually get support I would be for it 100%.

-----

btw, the only reason I posted the $300 amount is b/c thats what I saw reported.
South Carolina's head ball coach offered an interesting yet far-from-feasible proposal Wednesday that would give 70 players $300 every game for expenses.
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-VLT http://www.volunteertv.com/sports/h...oposal_to_pay_football_players_122978358.html
 
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#30
#30
99gator said:
no, it wouldn't.

which do you think would draw a bigger crowd, florida vs. tennessee or a minor league football game between the orlando hurricanes vs. the memphis smokies?

let cameron newton and the like play minor league ball. see what happens when they are out of the game after six years having never made it to the nfl.

then, watch them, if they try, attempt to get into college based on their high school transcripts and SAT scores. then, let's see them have thousands of dollars in student loan debt.

let's see how the slaves and plantation crowd like that outcome for several of these athletes.....because, that's exactly what would happen.
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There is semi-pro football already. Knoxville Knights...anyone heard of them?
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#31
#31
I remember "laundry" money. It was about $25/month in the late 60's as already noted. It was enough to go out and have a good time (it was 1960's $). I don't like Spurrier's idea of per game. That loads up the $ during the season. Per month would be better. It might also keep some of 'em in school during the summers. It should be "expense" money rather than pay. That carries some tax advantages for both sides.

It is a damned shame that when some kid comes in from East Podunk Hollow with nothing but the tee shirt he's wearing and a pair of jeans that he can't take a ball cap home with him from his "official visit." If he asks for the cap so he can show his Mom where he's going to school, that's a recruiting violation. That sort of crap needs to be changed, too.
 
#32
#32
VOLywood said:
Agreed. They are getting a FREE EDUCATION...something the rest of us paid tens of thousands of dollars for. If they don't want the education, go do something else for a while.
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Free education? No. Athletic ability pays for it. You payed for your degree with cash because you were not a sports player. So both parties pay for their education. History majors don't have to work out with special forces soldiers either (like the football team).
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#33
#33
PimpVol said:
Free education? No. Athletic ability pays for it. You payed for your degree with cash because you were not a sports player. So both parties pay for their education. History majors don't have to work out with special forces soldiers either (like the football team).
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Sorry but I feel as though your logic is flawed here. They are most certainly getting a paid for education.
 
#34
#34
BearCat204 said:
Sorry but I feel as though your logic is flawed here. They are most certainly getting a paid for education.
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How? A non athlete pays for education with cash (student loans etc). An athlete pays with his ability to play a sport at a high level. He or she pays with his or her ability to fill arenas and stadiums with paying customers. Is that hard to understand?
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#35
#35
PimpVol said:
How? A non athlete pays for education with cash (student loans etc). An athlete pays with his ability to play a sport at a high level. He or she pays with his or her ability to fill arenas and stadiums with paying customers. Is that hard to understand?
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I understand what you are saying, but atheletes are receiving an education without having to pay cash for it. They are indeed being compensated for their athletic contributions.
 
#36
#36
I do not think they are talking about paying players some big amount here... just making sure they have the cash to buy cloths/food/etc..

It would cut down on the amount of robbery's happening by players here in knoxville :eek:
 
#37
#37
BearCat204 said:
I understand what you are saying, but atheletes are receiving an education without having to pay cash for it. They are indeed being compensated for their athletic contributions.
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They (athletes) are the integral part of making millions for "schools". Students make nothing for schools. Athletes have to train like they are in the olympics. Regular students don't. No comparison IMO. Debate is great. Name calling sucks. Keep it respectful. You didn't call names, just saying.
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#38
#38
Counting their education as payment would be like counting your work experience as payment. If people new how much time these guys actually spend training and saw what it does to their bodies when they are 40 or 50 years old they would change their minds about payment. These kids are worth millions to the schools. Maybe they should be paid in similar fashion. Remember not everyone of them is going to move on to the NFL (CFL or whatever). UT is special in the fact that historically student athletes have a high graduation rate but they deserve more than a piece of paper.

Would it really be so hard to place a salary cap of a program? Maybe 700K/yr to start with. Thats roughly 10K a player per year. Honestly though these players deserve more than that but its a start.
 
#39
#39
I would say the schools and programs are worth millions to the players as well. At least to those who get into the NFL via college
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#40
#40
BearCat204 said:
I would say the schools and programs are worth millions to the players as well. At least to those who get into the NFL via college
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To the ones that go to the NFL I would agree.
 
#41
#41
PimpVol said:
They (athletes) are the integral part of making millions for "schools". Students make nothing for schools. Athletes have to train like they are in the olympics. Regular students don't. No comparison IMO. Debate is great. Name calling sucks. Keep it respectful. You didn't call names, just saying.
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While it is certainly true that athletes, especially in the bigger money making sports such as football or basketball, do bring in a lot of revenue, it would be a mistake to assume that students make nothing for the schools. 1st, the sports revenues mostly stay within the AD and only indirectly benefit the school. Also, don't forget that most of the sports, therefore, most of the athletes on scholarships, generate no revenue at all, so they end up costing the AD.

2nd, in addition to tuition, students pay dorm costs, meal costs, books and so on, all of which directly impact the schools' bottom line. Students then graduate to become alumni and contribute in a variety of ways including donations, buying tickets to games, buying UT stuff, etc., etc. That may seem like small change, but over time it adds up.

2 statistics I think would be interesting to see would be 1) the comparison of the Univerisities' revenue compared to the Athletic Department
2) a comparison of regular vs athletic alumni contributions to the general fund over the years.

All that aside, I do think paying a stipend (not a salary) is the smart thing to do. I got one with my ROTC scholarship and it was enough walking around money to keep me from having to work full time so I could concentrate on my studies and ROTC training.
 
#42
#42
YorkVol said:
While it is certainly true that athletes, especially in the bigger money making sports such as football or basketball, do bring in a lot of revenue, it would be a mistake to assume that students make nothing for the schools. 1st, the sports revenues mostly stay within the AD and only indirectly benefit the school. Also, don't forget that most of the sports, therefore, most of the athletes on scholarships, generate no revenue at all, so they end up costing the AD.

2nd, in addition to tuition, students pay dorm costs, meal costs, books and so on, all of which directly impact the schools' bottom line. Students then graduate to become alumni and contribute in a variety of ways including donations, buying tickets to games, buying UT stuff, etc., etc. That may seem like small change, but over time it adds up.

2 statistics I think would be interesting to see would be 1) the comparison of the Univerisities' revenue compared to the Athletic Department
2) a comparison of regular vs athletic alumni contributions to the general fund over the years.

All that aside, I do think paying a stipend (not a salary) is the smart thing to do. I got one with my ROTC scholarship and it was enough walking around money to keep me from having to work full time so I could concentrate on my studies and ROTC training.
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Respectable post for sure. However, athletes and students have the same needs. Parking permits, meals and such. But athletes actually make money. Students only pay money to schools. There is a difference. IMO athletes get a bum rap with that "free education crap". They have to master a sport and a major. Simultaneously. Generally speaking though, your post is hard to dispute.
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#43
#43
Anybody ever work as a graduate assistant in college? You know what that pays per hour worked? And that's for a college graduate who could be earning far more in the private sector. While it's not as high profile as athletics, colleges and universities are financially benefiting from having low-paid GA's do all types of work instead of staff and professors.

Try this and the Title 9 lawsuits will start flying immediately. Schools will have to come up with the cash to pay all athletes including the women's bowling team or start cutting programs.
 
#44
#44
dobre_shunka said:
Anybody ever work as a graduate assistant in college? You know what that pays per hour worked? And that's for a college graduate who could be earning far more in the private sector. While it's not as high profile as athletics, colleges and universities are financially benefiting from having low-paid GA's do all types of work instead of staff and professors.

Try this and the Title 9 lawsuits will start flying immediately. Schools will have to come up with the cash to pay all athletes including the women's bowling team or start cutting programs.
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Just decide players salary by commission.

Football brings in X amount of dollars a year and each player then receives a % of that.

Womens basketball brings in X amount of dollars a year and each player receives a % of that.

If you want to make more money then play another sport or make your sport so exciting that people will pay to see you play. (and buy your merchandise)

Heck if you want to avoid lawsuits just make players sign all their rights away like we make college students do in other areas.
 
#45
#45
I think for a Universities and institutions to be grossly enriched by the feats of these young men, it's only a matter of fairness to consider some additional means of making it more equitable for them.

College scholarships as compensation is tantamount to saying meals and lodging is just compensation for slaves.
The way I look at it is this. Really simple. If the athletic program receives revenue, then the players (regardless of sport) should receive a percentage of it.

Bowl, TV and ticket revenues, all should have a percentage go to the athletes who generate it. Granted, the percentage would take the value of the scholarships into consideration. But it should be looked at as an operational expense.

This way, kids who choose to play in sports that don't generate revenues, do so of their own volition and already have the benefit of football and basketball programs funding their scholarships.

But for those who choose to play in revenue generating sports, they would now have an incentive to get good grades in HS, get in such a program and stay in school (as this may well be the best means to be able to support themselves and their family outside of the NFL).

When you consider the billions of dollars in revenue they are generating, it already is a Professional (commercially profiting) establishment. How the NCAA can get away with calling it amateur athletics is a mystery to me. If it's amateur, then explain the millions of dollars paid out just for a single bowl game...huh?

It's essentially a full time job while going to school. It's fair and it would provide real incentives for athletes to "earn a living" while going to school. I think the NFL should weigh in and strongly encourage it, as they would benefit from having a higher percentage of the best athletes from among all the sports.
 
#46
#46
VOLorNuttin said:
I think for a Universities and institutions to be grossly enriched by the feats of these young men, it's only a matter of fairness to consider some additional means of making it more equitable for them.

College scholarships as compensation is tantamount to saying meals and lodging is just compensation for slaves.
The way I look at it is this. Really simple. If the athletic program receives revenue, then the players (regardless of sport) should receive a percentage of it.

Bowl, TV and ticket revenues, all should have a percentage go to the athletes who generate it. Granted, the percentage would take the value of the scholarships into consideration. But it should be looked at as an operational expense.

This way, kids who choose to play in sports that don't generate revenues, do so of their own volition and already have the benefit of football and basketball programs funding their scholarships.

But for those who choose to play in revenue generating sports, they would now have an incentive to get good grades in HS, get in such a program and stay in school (as this may well be the best means to be able to support themselves and their family outside of the NFL).

When you consider the billions of dollars in revenue they are generating, it already is a Professional (commercially profiting) establishment. How the NCAA can get away with calling it amateur athletics is a mystery to me. If it's amateur, then explain the millions of dollars paid out just for a single bowl game...huh?

It's essentially a full time job while going to school. It's fair and it would provide real incentives for athletes to "earn a living" while going to school. I think the NFL should weigh in and strongly encourage it, as they would benefit from having a higher percentage of the best athletes from among all the sports.
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+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
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#47
#47
Elhanan said:
Just decide players salary by commission.

Football brings in X amount of dollars a year and each player then receives a % of that.

Womens basketball brings in X amount of dollars a year and each player receives a % of that.
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Don't see it being that simple. One excuse will be that the men's sports bring in more revenue because they have advantages such as better facilities, higher paid coaches, better TV deals, etc.

Title 9 essentially requires equal support of men's and women's sports so that's certainly going to translate into equal payment of players.
 
#48
#48
dobre_shunka said:
Don't see it being that simple. One excuse will be that the men's sports bring in more revenue because they have advantages such as better facilities, higher paid coaches, better TV deals, etc.

Title 9 essentially requires equal support of men's and women's sports so that's certainly going to translate into equal payment of players.
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Wouldn't an equal % be equal support? I've worked on commission before and their is always a difference in wages. You get paid based off of your ability.

Honestly its not like they have the same job either. Woman aren't playing football with the men and men aren't playing softball with the ladies. Different job, different pay.
 
#49
#49
Elhanan said:
Wouldn't an equal % be equal support? I've worked on commission before and their is always a difference in wages. You get paid based off of your ability.

Honestly its not like they have the same job either. Woman aren't playing football with the men and men aren't playing softball with the ladies. Different job, different pay.
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Just curious, what dollar amount would you be thinking here?
 
#50
#50
BearCat204 said:
Just curious, what dollar amount would you be thinking here?
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Good question. I don't know the amount of revenue each program brings in. Any dollar amount will be debatable b/c the def. of a "fair wage" is debatable too. It would really have to be something the NCAA or SEC would have to decide.

I do know they deserve some type of revenue. The exact amount is for people a lot smarter than me to figure out.
 
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