Paul Finebaum

[05_never_again]

Did UAB outcoach or outtalent Saban?

Saban can be beaten but the talent margin has to be close. We've had some talented teams but we still had gaps in talent at specific positions especially Oline and our depth isn't even close to what Bama has.

The problem is that nobody can really out-coach him either. If he wasn't also a top coach, his recruiting would have begun to suffer by now once recruits and high school coaches figured that out.

 

[BeardedVol]

Did UAB outcoach or outtalent Saban?

When did Saban lose to UAB while coaching at Alabama?:ermm:

 

[SmashMouth]

I think if you look back over the last 10-15 years, the bar is set pretty high in the SEC for any coach.

Each team, including UT, has had its own problems, but the expectations are to win a national championship.

2003 Saban at LSU wins National Championship in 4th year
2006 Meyer at Florida wins National Championship in 2nd year
2007 Miles at LSU wins National Championship in 3rd year
2009 Saban at Alababma wins National Championship in 3rd year
2010 Chizik at Auburn wins National Championship in 2nd year
2014 Malzone almost wins National Championship in 1st year

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

When did Saban lose to UAB while coaching at Alabama?:ermm:

Think he meant LMU in 07.

Nvm, he lost to UAB as LSU's HC.

 

[BeardedVol]

Think he meant LMU in 07.

Nvm, he lost to UAB as LSU's HC.

So, we either go back 17 years, to Saban's first year as HC at LSU, where they were coming off of a 3-8 season in 1999, and terrible roster left by Gerrry Dinardo, or we go back 10 years to Saban's first year as HC at Alabama, still struggling under NCAA sanctions to find a game against an inferior opponent that Saban lost but should have won?

Good times.:thud:

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Feel better, Hillbilly? Got that out of your system?

Or are you going to bring it up again (and again and again) every few weeks for the rest of your natural life?

Just trying to plan ahead for what to expect from you. The horse is freaking dead. After dying, it was beat into glue. And the glue has since been spattered about the forum in a most unseemly manner. But just trying to get a feel for how much more of this to expect.

South Carolina. Vandy.

 

[05_never_again]

So, we either go back 17 years, to Saban's first year as HC at LSU, where they were coming off of a 3-8 season in 1999, and terrible roster left by Gerrry Dinardo, or we go back 10 years to Saban's first year as HC at Alabama, still struggling under NCAA sanctions to find a game against an inferior opponent that Saban lost but should have won?

Good times.:thud:

Amazing, isn't it?

Saban's really only had 2 "bad losses" at Alabama (ignoring 2007, since that wasn't even really his team).

2010 South Carolina. That was a loss by 2 TDs to a top 20 team on the road, and Alabama was #1 at the time.

2015 Ole Miss. Narrow loss to a top 15 team, but it was in Tuscaloosa as the #2 team in the country.

Those 2 games are his worst losses, which is as big of a testament to his success at Alabama as his 4 national titles.

The Kick Six game might be the single most painful loss, but I'm not sure how you could count narrowly losing on the road to the #4 team in the country as a bad loss.

 

[JC61]

So, we either go back 17 years, to Saban's first year as HC at LSU, where they were coming off of a 3-8 season in 1999, and terrible roster left by Gerrry Dinardo, or we go back 10 years to Saban's first year as HC at Alabama, still struggling under NCAA sanctions to find a game against an inferior opponent that Saban lost but should have won?

Good times.:thud:

everyone has a narrative....Saban went 8-4 that year, beating our 11th ranked VOLS in the process...roster musta not been hot garbage.

Fact is he was beaten by a vastly inferior team, at home, for homecoming.

Sorta like the ULM game w/ UA...even the greats drop ones they shouldn't.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Are people suggesting we should fire CBJ because he isnt as good of a coach as Saban? Who might go down as the best CFB of all time?

 

[butchna]

So, we either go back 17 years, to Saban's first year as HC at LSU, where they were coming off of a 3-8 season in 1999, and terrible roster left by Gerrry Dinardo, or we go back 10 years to Saban's first year as HC at Alabama, still struggling under NCAA sanctions to find a game against an inferior opponent that Saban lost but should have won?

Good times.:thud:

"Terrible roster" huh? Sounds eerily like an "excuse"'. Think there may have been a few LSU "realists" that uttered the line "inexcusable" after such a loss...like ours did after that first Vandy loss? I also need a reminder of which small program we've lost to under Butch. Cuz even tho many on here and in the national media predicted a loss to Western Kentucky, if that had occurred we'd have never heard the end of the references. Moral of the story, you can endure inexcusable LOSSES and still end up the best coach of your generation. :wink2:

 

[05_never_again]

everyone has a narrative....Saban went 8-4 that year, beating our 11th ranked VOLS in the process...roster musta not been hot garbage.

Fact is he was beaten by a vastly inferior team, at home, for homecoming.

Sorta like the ULM game w/ UA...even the greats drop ones they shouldn't.

I count that as a Year Zero for Saban.

Since that year, he's lost a handful of games that he should not have but I would say that not a single loss has been embarrassing.

2008 losses: #2 Florida in SECCG, #7 Utah in Sugar Bowl
2010 losses: at #19 South Carolina, at #10 LSU, #2 Auburn
2011 losses: #1 LSU
2012 losses: #15 Texas A&M
2013 losses: at #4 Auburn, #11 Oklahoma in Sugar Bowl
2014 losses: at #11 Ole Miss, #4 Ohio State in Sugar Bowl (CFP Semifinal)
2015 losses: #15 Ole Miss
2016 losses: #2 Clemson (CFP National Championship)

Saban has not lost to an unranked team, or even a top 20 team, since 2007. The 2010 Auburn loss and 2012 A&M loss were to teams headed by eventual Heisman-winning QBs having once-in-a-generation seasons for their schools.

Even Urban Meyer, who most people would say is the coach closest to Saban in terms of coaching talent, hasn't been quite that impressive. The loss to Clemson, even though it was in a CFP semifinal, was pretty embarrassing. Completely non-competitive. He also lost to an unranked Virginia Tech team at home in 2014, but went on to win the national title that year.

 

[JC61]

I count that as a Year Zero for Saban.

Since that year, he's lost a handful of games that he should not have but I would say that not a single loss has been embarrassing.

2008 losses: #2 Florida in SECCG, #7 Utah in Sugar Bowl
2010 losses: at #19 South Carolina, at #10 LSU, #2 Auburn
2011 losses: #1 LSU
2012 losses: #15 Texas A&M
2013 losses: at #4 Auburn, #11 Oklahoma in Sugar Bowl
2014 losses: at #11 Ole Miss, #4 Ohio State in Sugar Bowl (CFP Semifinal)
2015 losses: #15 Ole Miss
2016 losses: #2 Clemson (CFP National Championship)

Saban has not lost to an unranked team, or even a top 20 team, since 2007. The 2010 Auburn loss and 2012 A&M loss were to teams headed by eventual Heisman-winning QBs having once-in-a-generation seasons for their schools.

Even Urban Meyer, who most people would say is the coach closest to Saban in terms of coaching talent, hasn't been quite that impressive. The loss to Clemson, even though it was in a CFP semifinal, was pretty embarrassing. Completely non-competitive. He also lost to an unranked Virginia Tech team at home in 2014, but went on to win the national title that year.

I don't disagree that Saban is the best in CFB right now. I think he out-talents folks more than out-coaches them...or else, he'd never lose given the sheer talent on his rosters.

As long as Jones doesn't get abraded for year one here, or any coach for that matter...I can live w/ your year 0 rule. But alas, I fully understand that cannot be tolerated by some.

 

[Doberman]

I don't disagree that Saban is the best in CFB right now. I think he out-talents folks more than out-coaches them...or else, he'd never lose given the sheer talent on his rosters.

As long as Jones doesn't get abraded for year one here, or any coach for that matter...I can live w/ your year 0 rule. But alas, I fully understand that cannot be tolerated by some.

The only person still bringing up Jones's first year at UT ....... is Jones.

 

[05_never_again]

I don't disagree that Saban is the best in CFB right now. I think he out-talents folks more than out-coaches them...or else, he'd never lose given the sheer talent on his rosters.

As long as Jones doesn't get abraded for year one here, or any coach for that matter...I can live w/ your year 0 rule. But alas, I fully understand that cannot be tolerated by some.

Saban out-talents and out-coaches people. You can count on one hand the amount of times Saban got out-coached or out-schemed (Kick Six final play, probably the entire 2014 Sugar Bowl, anything else?)

I don't think anyone is berating Butch over year one.

I think most people, myself included, only begin to get critical of his performance when you start talking about last season. He met expectations until 2016.

 

[1chattyvols1]

The only person still bringing up Jones's first year at UT ....... is Jones.

Lol-ain't that the truth!

 

[1chattyvols1]

I count that as a Year Zero for Saban.

Since that year, he's lost a handful of games that he should not have but I would say that not a single loss has been embarrassing.

2008 losses: #2 Florida in SECCG, #7 Utah in Sugar Bowl
2010 losses: at #19 South Carolina, at #10 LSU, #2 Auburn
2011 losses: #1 LSU
2012 losses: #15 Texas A&M
2013 losses: at #4 Auburn, #11 Oklahoma in Sugar Bowl
2014 losses: at #11 Ole Miss, #4 Ohio State in Sugar Bowl (CFP Semifinal)
2015 losses: #15 Ole Miss
2016 losses: #2 Clemson (CFP National Championship)

Saban has not lost to an unranked team, or even a top 20 team, since 2007. The 2010 Auburn loss and 2012 A&M loss were to teams headed by eventual Heisman-winning QBs having once-in-a-generation seasons for their schools.

Even Urban Meyer, who most people would say is the coach closest to Saban in terms of coaching talent, hasn't been quite that impressive. The loss to Clemson, even though it was in a CFP semifinal, was pretty embarrassing. Completely non-competitive. He also lost to an unranked Virginia Tech team at home in 2014, but went on to win the national title that year.

If Saban is playing in a bowl and it's not a reference to the NC, he's gonna get beat

 

[05_never_again]

If Saban is playing in a bowl and it's not a reference to the NC, he's gonna get beat

Not necessarily. He won the 2010 Capital One Bowl (by 42 points) which wasn't a reference. I won't count the 2007 Indy Bowl win.

He also lost the 2014 Sugar Bowl, which was a reference. And of course lost the 2016 title game itself last year.

 

[chargervol]

Lol-ain't that the truth!

Actually, not at all the truth.

They literally had just done the best staff in America thing from year one, right above his post.

Mr. Multi quote stops by once a week with year one loss to Vandy.

And I could honestly do this for another 20 minutes.
His post is not even a little bit true. Several legitimate concerns you guys could discuss that I could support. But this is where you always lose me with the hyperbole.

 

[volfan102455]

Saban + Alabama is a one of those special situations. IMO, it is the combination. Alabama, due to Bryant, has a tradition like no other school. Saban is a great coach. He wasn't born one as his early years were filled with the types of records most coaches have. He became one over time and then landed at Alabama.

Would he have had similar success over an extended period of time at LSU. No one really knows the answer to that question.

Spurrier + Florida was another combination that was almost guaranteed to be successful. Spurrier wasn't as successful at South Carolina where talent within the state was lacking.

Those that are looking for dominance like Saban + Alabama will always be disappointed.

 

[JacketVol]

I may be a miserable little butt head compared to you, but don't lump we in with Bearded.

That was why he was quoted but if you don't think we have a chance against Bama then you would put yourself there not me.

 

[JacketVol]

There have been times I've used "toss up", with the understanding "any given day".

I've got to see us lose before I believe we will lose. I'm not sure if that is expect to win, I feels like it is.

We can beat any team in the country as long as we don't stink up the joint for over half the game. We can have a bad qtr and still beat most teams. Two bad qtrs are hard to overcome, especially if they are against a good team.Florida last year we played bad
for 21/2 qtrs and beat them going away.

Yes, I expect to win. It may not be pretty, but a W is a W. All wins are pretty and every loss is ugly.

Then it doesn't apply to you. GBO

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

"Terrible roster" huh? Sounds eerily like an "excuse"'. Think there may have been a few LSU "realists" that uttered the line "inexcusable" after such a loss...like ours did after that first Vandy loss? I also need a reminder of which small program we've lost to under Butch. Cuz even tho many on here and in the national media predicted a loss to Western Kentucky, if that had occurred we'd have never heard the end of the references. Moral of the story, you can endure inexcusable LOSSES and still end up the best coach of your generation. :wink2:

Did people really think we'd lose to WKU? Was that with Petrino?

 

[TUSKtimes]

Saban + Alabama is a one of those special situations. IMO, it is the combination. Alabama, due to Bryant, has a tradition like no other school. Saban is a great coach. He wasn't born one as his early years were filled with the types of records most coaches have. He became one over time and then landed at Alabama.

Would he have had similar success over an extended period of time at LSU. No one really knows the answer to that question.


Those that are looking for dominance like Saban + Alabama will always be disappointed.

Coach Saban was at LSU for 5 seasons. He had a 10 win season for only 2 of the 5 seasons. He never had a back to back 10 win season in his head coaching career before getting to Tuscaloosa and never enjoyed an undefeated season.

This is what his last 9 years at Alabama looks like:

2008 - 12 -2
2009 - 14-0
2010 - 10-3
2011 - 12-1
2012 - 13-1
2013 - 12-2
2014 - 12-2
2015 - 14-1
2016 - 14-1

Coach Saban never came close to this type of success before getting to the Capstone.

Conclusion: ALABAMA + Saban = Rolling Stones

 

[05_never_again]

Did people really think we'd lose to WKU? Was that with Petrino?

There were some that did. It was their first season with Petrino.

I actually heard more calls for an upset before the 2014 Utah State game. They were supposed to have a good QB, win the Mountain West, etc. and the line moved a lot in their favor before the game (think we were only a TD favorite by kickoff or something like that). We won by 31

 

[butchna]

Did people really think we'd lose to WKU? Was that with Petrino?

It was spread through several threads before the games and per usual in the game thread. And yes, the Petrino factor was in full effect. Wasn't the vast majority on here but Mark May practically guaranteed it and it was the upset special dujour. Was hilarious watching May blame turnovers and time running out in ESPN postgame shows.