Paul Finebaum

#151
#151
1chattyvols1 said:
A lot of seasons back then looked better than they really were. Some not as good also. Though we won back to back SEC Championships in '89 & '90 it really doesn't feel like it. I understand how things work but two of our SECC come on the heels of Fla being on probation.

Same feeling toward Fulmer backing into the '07 SECCG.
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Does Auburn and Alabama feel they backed into the SEC Championship in 1989? HELL No! Why do so-called Tennessee Fans feel a need to belittle every accomplishment? Was it Tennessee's fault the Florida head coach paid child support for one of his players? No.

The 2007 SECCG appearance was a miracle run. Why cant we realize that team over-achieved?
 
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#153
#153
wmcovol said:
Does Auburn and Alabama feel they backed into the SEC Championship in 1989? HELL No! Why do so-called Tennessee Fans feel a need to belittle every accomplishment? Was it Tennessee's fault the Florida head coach paid child support for one of his players? No.

The 2007 SECCG appearance was a miracle run. Why cant we realize that team over-achieved?
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How did the 2007 Vols over-achieve?
 
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#154
#154
JacketVol said:
Bearded Vol just proves by his post he expects to lose to Bama. I hope our coach never feels that way and just shows you guys are miserable little butt heads. I expect to win every time I compete and for you punks bowing to bear and bubba, go be losers somewhere else.
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I may be a miserable little butt head compared to you, but don't lump we in with Bearded.
 
#155
#155
JacketVol said:
Bearded Vol just proves by his post he expects to lose to Bama. I hope our coach never feels that way and just shows you guys are miserable little butt heads. I expect to win every time I compete and for you punks bowing to bear and bubba, go be losers somewhere else.
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I may be a punk compared to you, but don't lump me with Bearded.
 
#158
#158
Boca Vol said:
Maybe, maybe not. It's impossible to know. Last year UT had all the momentum against aTm going into OT. You just never know.

But, to your point, the ties and lack of conference title games made a lot of seasons "look" better than what they were.

I recall a few months ago John and Jimmy were having a discussion that included Bear Bryant and Spurrier and by the numbers it wasn't close. Not taking anything away from Bryant, but he coached in an era of ties and no title games. A tie at the top (regardless who went to the Sugar Bowl) meant all those teams claim the title. That can't happen today. So it's very difficult to compare teams & coaches from different eras because the circumstances aren't the same.
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Good points all, but unilateral statements like "Any record with less than 10 wins USED to be a disappointment" brings "circumstances" into the conversation. The point about 85 I was trying to convey? We now KNOW that was a great team...but they almost weren't. :hmm:
 
#159
#159
butchna said:
Good points all, but unilateral statements like "Any record with less than 10 wins USED to be a disappointment" brings "circumstances" into the conversation. The point about 85 I was trying to convey? We now KNOW that was a great team...but they almost weren't. :hmm:
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You could probably say that about most teams and their title runs. What does '98 look like with a loss to 'Cuse to open the season, a UF loss, & Ark. loss?

Sometimes the ball bounces your way. And it's about time for it to happen again.
 
#160
#160
Boca Vol said:
You could probably say that about most teams and their title runs. What does '98 look like with a loss to 'Cuse to open the season, a UF loss, & Ark. loss?

Sometimes the ball bounces your way. And it's about time for it to happen again.
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Agreed. Would be interesting (if not stomach turning) to experience such under a message board microscope. :)
 
#161
#161
chargervol said:
He didn't call you either.
He was talking about people that say we can't beat Bama.
I believe you always declare a win.
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There have been times I've used "toss up", with the understanding "any given day".

I've got to see us lose before I believe we will lose. I'm not sure if that is expect to win, I feels like it is.

We can beat any team in the country as long as we don't stink up the joint for over half the game. We can have a bad qtr and still beat most teams. Two bad qtrs are hard to overcome, especially if they are against a good team.Florida last year we played bad for 21/2 qtrs and beat them going away.

Yes, I expect to win. It may not be pretty, but a W is a W. All wins are pretty and every loss is ugly.
 
#162
#162
butchna said:
Agreed. Would be interesting (if not stomach turning) to experience such under a message board microscope. :)
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Just wait...we have 6 more weeks of the off-season! All sorts of crazy threads will pop up. :loco:
 
#163
#163
Boca Vol said:
How did the 2007 Vols over-achieve?
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It was really more like we overachieved in one game (victory over Georgia) as opposed to the whole season. We actually got demolished by Florida and a bad Alabama team that year, so we were fairly lucky to get into the game (Florida went on to have 3 conference losses).

Georgia was higher ranked at the time of the game (12th, while we were unranked) and went on to finish that season #2 in the AP poll, but we beat them by 3 TDs in Neyland. They already had another upset loss to South Carolina from earlier in the year, so we both finished 6-2 in conference play and we had the tiebreaker.
 
#164
#164
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1chattyvols1 View Post
That was just a weird year.

Boca Vol said:
Indeed. Our last "good" team got their A$$ handed to them by Cal, UF, & Bama.
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Butch's 4th year was pretty much a weird year, also -- even with the assistance of 6 team-leading nfl-draftees, was unable (assuming the speculations are true) to manage the locker-room and assistant-coaching differences; losses to both Vandy and SCe (with unprecedented gains against our D) to miss a trip to Atlanta; injuries and releasing SC without a replacement.

Moving on, these recent things/years past will only make us stronger for team 121 (right??).
 
#165
#165
05_never_again said:
Finebaum is exactly right. Saban's mess was closer to Butch's than you think. It is easy to forget now but Alabama was one of the great laughingstocks of college football from the mid 90s up until the mid 2000s. He took over a program that was coming off probation, still had scars to its image from the Mike Price debacle, etc. Alabama was not a supremely talented squad when Saban took over. Butch is just about one-tenth the coach Saban is, that's the biggest difference.

As far as "contending for the East" I suppose it depends on your definition of "contending." We failed to control our own destiny for the East crown after October 29 last year with 4 games left in the regular season. We will could have still gotten in after that but needed help. Is that "contending?" I can see it being argued both ways.
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Keep in mind.. Saban was NOT always as successful as he is at Alabama. From 89 up until the late 90's he had plenty of 6-6 and 7-5 seasons. And it really was not up until the 2000's he had major success. Up until 2005..as the dolphins coach.

Then in 2007 he took over for Alabama.. They took a risk on Saban really. He was iffy in the sec when he was lsu's head coach.

Long story short.. Im not counting butch out yet. The man has only been head coaching since 07..when Saban took over Alabama.

Source
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Saban
 
#166
#166
UT-Rex said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1chattyvols1 View Post
That was just a weird year.



Butch's 4th year was pretty much a weird year, also -- even with the assistance of 6 team-leading nfl-draftees, was unable (assuming the speculations are true) to manage the locker-room and assistant-coaching differences; losses to both Vandy and SCe (with unprecedented gains against our D) to miss a trip to Atlanta; injuries and releasing SC without a replacement.

Moving on, these recent things/years past will only make us stronger for team 121 (right??).
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The 2007 team probably wasn't as talented as the 2016 squad, fair point. Strange years, both. That defense had only 3 guys on it who played in the NFL, two of which, admittedly, went on to be great pros (Jerod Mayo and Eric Berry, who was a true freshman that year). Arian Foster was also on that squad.
 
#167
#167
TNJOKER said:
Keep in mind.. Saban was NOT always as successful as he is at Alabama. From 89 up until the late 90's he had plenty of 6-6 and 7-5 seasons. And it really was not up until the 2000's he had major success. Up until 2005..as the dolphins coach.

Then in 2007 he took over for Alabama.. They took a risk on Saban really. He was iffy in the sec when he was lsu's head coach.

Long story short.. Im not counting butch out yet. The man has only been head coaching since 07..when Saban took over Alabama.

Source
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Saban
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He won a NC in his 3rd season there...and left the players for Miles to get another...THEN went to the Dolphins.
 
#168
#168
TNJOKER said:
Then in 2007 he took over for Alabama.. They took a risk on Saban really. He was iffy in the sec when he was lsu's head coach.
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When Saban came to Alabama, he'd already won a national title at an SEC school (LSU). It was pretty apparent that he would improve Alabama's program. 4 national titles in 10 years? Not sure even the most delusional Bammers would have called for that.
 
#169
#169
wmcovol said:
Does Auburn and Alabama feel they backed into the SEC Championship in 1989? HELL No! Why do so-called Tennessee Fans feel a need to belittle every accomplishment? Was it Tennessee's fault the Florida head coach paid child support for one of his players? No.

The 2007 SECCG appearance was a miracle run. Why cant we realize that team over-achieved?
Click to expand...

That team got spanked by two teams that went 6-6. That's not overachieving unless you're Vanderbilt.
 
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#170
#170
NeverWe'llSever said:
Not supremely talented maybe, but they went 10-2 just two years prior to his hiring with Shula. The teams before Butch went 5-7, 5-7, 6-7, 7-6, 5-7. And as much of a laughingstock that Alabama was in that time, they still won an SEC title in 1999. Unbelievable.
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Saban also inherited a roster with about 3x as many future NFL draft picks...not saying Butch should be given any more time because all that is clearly history by now...we were back to 9-4 in Butch's 3rd season and even with a pair of very disappointing losses last year we were still 9-4...i think 9 wins should be out standard expectation in years like this one where we have a number of question marks...when we have returning starters at all the key positions we should expect to win every game...
 
#171
#171
05_never_again said:
Finebaum is exactly right. Saban's mess was closer to Butch's than you think. It is easy to forget now but Alabama was one of the great laughingstocks of college football from the mid 90s up until the mid 2000s. He took over a program that was coming off probation, still had scars to its image from the Mike Price debacle, etc. Alabama was not a supremely talented squad when Saban took over. Butch is just about one-tenth the coach Saban is, that's the biggest difference.

As far as "contending for the East" I suppose it depends on your definition of "contending." We failed to control our own destiny for the East crown after October 29 last year with 4 games left in the regular season. We will could have still gotten in after that but needed help. Is that "contending?" I can see it being argued both ways.
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even if he is wright you need a much better replacement in hand to take the risk of going from bad to worse. i think that keeps getting left out of this idea. what do you do if you remove Jones what out a major upgrade.
 
#172
#172
Sarms58 said:
Saban also inherited a roster with about 3x as many future NFL draft picks...not saying Butch should be given any more time because all that is clearly history by now...we were back to 9-4 in Butch's 3rd season and even with a pair of very disappointing losses last year we were still 9-4...i think 9 wins should be out standard expectation in years like this one where we have a number of question marks...when we have returning starters at all the key positions we should expect to win every game...
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Maybe 9 wins of the scheduled games...imo
 
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