Our two party system is broken.

#101
#101
PKT_VOL said:
I don't disagree.

I would add that they have also built their base because they are the only game in town.

I do not believe this will be the case in the future.
Click to expand...

They are getting stronger precisely because of people like you and me.

I think we need need to work within the party system to nominate and elect people that will affect change. While you think we need to vote 3rd party people. As long as we and the other than Dems keep splitting votes, nothing will change.
 
#103
#103
hog88 said:
They are getting stronger precisely because of people like you and me.

I think we need need to work within the party system to nominate and elect people that will affect change. While you think we need to vote 3rd party people. As long as we and the other than Dems keep splitting votes, nothing will change.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, there is a possibility that the GOP will become the new Libertarian Party. If so, the Democratic Party is in trouble.

There would likely be split on both sides of the isle if that hold true. Again, multiple party system is coming in come capacity in the future. It is just a matter of how and time.
 
#104
#104
PKT_VOL said:
Like I said before, there is a possibility that the GOP will become the new Libertarian Party. If so, the Democratic Party is in trouble.

There would likely be split on both sides of the isle if that hold true. Again, multiple party system is coming in come capacity in the future. It is just a matter of how and time.
Click to expand...

No it is not! The powers that be will not allow it.

Cancer works from the inside and kills because it is fatal before caught.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#106
#106
hog88 said:
No it is not! The powers that be will not allow it.

Cancer works from the inside and kills because it is fatal before caught.
Click to expand...

Those powers are quickly changing. The old guard is loosing their influence daily.
 
#107
#107
PKT_VOL said:
Those powers are quickly changing. The old guard is loosing their influence daily.
Click to expand...

Nice thought. However not reality, the pendulum swings both ways. We are way to far left right now and will hit a tipping point. Then there will be an overcorrection and we will swing way too far right, never coming to the center.

Sorry, the thought that working from the outside past me by when I tried to run for a seat on the county commission and was told I had to raise 40K to be backed by the R party (later found out the Dems only wanted 25K). Without either backing there was no chance of winning unless I could finance on my own, which I couldn't at the time.

This was for a 12K a year part time job!
 
#110
#110
hog88 said:
Nice thought. However not reality, the pendulum swings both ways. We are way to far left right now and will hit a tipping point. Then there will be an overcorrection and we will swing way too far right, never coming to the center.

Sorry, the thought that working from the outside past me by when I tried to run for a seat on the county commission and was told I had to raise 40K to be backed by the R party (later found out the Dems only wanted 25K). Without either backing there was no chance of winning unless I could finance on my own, which I couldn't at the time.

This was for a 12K a year part time job!
Click to expand...

I'm afraid there will be a little of that regardless.

However, it will be reduced (could be eliminated all together) when there is more than one game in town.
 
#112
#112
PKT_VOL said:
Like I said before, there is a possibility that the GOP will become the new Libertarian Party. If so, the Democratic Party is in trouble.

There would likely be split on both sides of the isle if that hold true. Again, multiple party system is coming in come capacity in the future. It is just a matter of how and time.
Click to expand...

I think the GOP will likely split, with the Tea Party becoming its own 'major' party and the rest either taking over/joining or forming a party very similar to the Libertarian party (but less socially liberal).
 
#113
#113
E-Tizzle said:
I think the GOP will likely split, with the Tea Party becoming its own 'major' party and the rest either taking over/joining or forming a party very similar to the Libertarian party (but less socially liberal).
Click to expand...

Definitely a possibility.

The problem with the tea party is that it has to have some sort of platform on social issues. I am not sure what that platform would be.

I am wholly convinced that we will have a multiparty system similar to Europe within my lifetime. Our system makes no sense the way it is. Most people don't like either party. The only thing that is missing is the catalyst for change. That will happen in time.

I am interested in how it is all doing to shake out and evolve from a political standpoint. I will be interested in how the new parties form or break away from the old guard; what the catalyst will be and when it will happen.
 
#114
#114
PKT_VOL said:
Eternalism?

I tend to subscribe to eternalism over GBU. Presentism is absurd though.
Click to expand...
Since perception is reality, Id say were both right. For the record, GBU makes more sense to me. Presentism is no more absurd than Eternalism. All three are just theories, so the fact that you claim to know the secrets of the universe is absurd to me.
 
#117
#117
JDogInDaHouse said:
Since perception is reality, Id say were both right. For the record, GBU makes more sense to me. Presentism is no more absurd than Eternalism. All three are just theories, so the fact that you claim to know the secrets of the universe is absurd to me.
Click to expand...

Perception is personal reality, not ultimate reality; there is a stark difference between the two.

I am not stating that I know the "secrets of the universe". I am just stating that our common experiences and understanding of physics would render "presentism" as absurd.
 
#118
#118
PKT_VOL said:
Perception is personal reality, not ultimate reality; there is a stark difference between the two.

I am not stating that I know the "secrets of the universe". I am just stating that our common experiences and understanding of physics would render "presentism" as absurd.
Click to expand...
Please, explain your position further. I feel "personal perception" is the only reality because, if "ultimate reality" existed, it would only be "reality" once perceived by someone. Thus making it THAT PERSONS "ultimate reality" or as you call it their "personal reality". It would still NOT be everyone elses "reality". Even if "ultimate reality" were witnessed by many, each person would perceive it differently, once again making it "personal reality". Just wanted to explain my statement that perception is reality further. Im sure you perceive my perception of reality to be wrong...:)
 
#119
#119
PKT_VOL said:
I am just stating that our common experiences and understanding of physics would render "presentism" as absurd.
Click to expand...
Also, no such thing as "common experiences". Two people on the same roller coaster will not percieve the experience exactly the same.
 
#120
#120
JDogInDaHouse said:
Please, explain your position further. I feel "personal perception" is the only reality because, if "ultimate reality" existed, it would only be "reality" once perceived by someone. Thus making it THAT PERSONS "ultimate reality" or as you call it their "personal reality". It would still NOT be everyone elses "reality". Even if "ultimate reality" were witnessed by many, each person would perceive it differently, once again making it "personal reality". Just wanted to explain my statement that perception is reality further. Im sure you perceive my perception of reality to be wrong...:)
Click to expand...

It is fairly simple.

Let's posit that there is a standard marker on a table in an otherwise empty room. Now, lets say that there are four people in the room. Each person will see the room, each other, and most importantly the marker (the focal point) slightly different or very different depending on their physiology. Each person is focused on the same marker (ultimate reality) but are "seeing" something slightly different as if they were witnessing the same thing through different prisms or glasses. Each person's interpretation of the marker (ultimate reality) becomes their own "personal reality".

The problem with your post, and extreme rationalism in general, is that it negates the power of experience. At some point, even the most stringent rationalist must concede that one's concept of personal reality is rooted in empiricism (experience). You are correct in asserting that one will never truly know or understand ultimate reality; one can only have a perception of ultimate reality. However, only being able to have a perception of ultimate reality due to physiological limitations is not a logically valid reason to dismiss the concept or idea of an ultimate reality outside of a thinking being (yourself).

After all, where does one get their concept of reality if there isn't an "original" reality from which the observer draws their perception from?
 
#121
#121
JDogInDaHouse said:
Also, no such thing as "common experiences". Two people on the same roller coaster will not percieve the experience exactly the same.
Click to expand...

You have refuted yourself in your own post.

The fact that two different minds can say that they experienced something both would refer to as a "roller coaster" is subtle proof that they shared a "common experience". Now, that is not that each mind on the roller coaster experience the exact same thing; but they do share a common (not exact) experience.
 
#122
#122
PKT_VOL said:
You have refuted yourself in your own post.

The fact that two different minds can say that they experienced something both would refer to as a "roller coaster" is subtle proof that they shared a "common experience". Now, that is not that each mind on the roller coaster experience the exact same thing; but they do share a common (not exact) experience.
Click to expand...
"Common- Belonging equally to or shared equally by two or more." Two people will never peceive outside stimuli exactly the same. The "reality" or "perceived reality" of that outside stimuli (the roller coaster) will be perceived differently by each person. Therefore it is not common or shared equally. Its only the peception of the individual that an experience was shared. Thus making it "personal reality" and not as you put in your post "ultimate reality".
 
Last edited:
#123
#123
JDogInDaHouse said:
"Common- Belonging equally to or shared equally by two or more." Two people will never peceive outside stimuli exactly the same. The "reality" or "perceived reality" of that outside stimuli (the roller coaster) will be perceived differently by each person. Therefore it is not common or shared equally. Its only the peception of the individual that an experience was shared. Thus making it "personal reality" and not as you put in your post "ultimate reality".
Click to expand...

Everything is relative.

You are viewing things as an absolute. Equality can be relative. Two people on the same roller coaster ride share an experience relatively equal compared to one on a roller coaster and another in a cubical at work.

We are sharing a relatively equal experience right now on Volnation in this thread compared to my girlfriend who is also in the same physical room.
 
#124
#124
PKT_VOL said:
Everything is relative.

You are viewing things as an absolute. Equality can be relative. Two people on the same roller coaster ride share an experience relatively equal compared to one on a roller coaster and another in a cubical at work.

We are sharing a relatively equal experience right now on Volnation in this thread compared to my girlfriend who is also in the same physical room.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the conversation. :hi:
 
#125
#125
JDogInDaHouse said:
Please, explain your position further. I feel "personal perception" is the only reality because, if "ultimate reality" existed, it would only be "reality" once perceived by someone. Thus making it THAT PERSONS "ultimate reality" or as you call it their "personal reality". It would still NOT be everyone elses "reality". Even if "ultimate reality" were witnessed by many, each person would perceive it differently, once again making it "personal reality". Just wanted to explain my statement that perception is reality further. Im sure you perceive my perception of reality to be wrong...:)
Click to expand...

Our senses and scientific instruments detect only a small fraction of the universe. At this time, there are actually confluences of string theory positing the existence of multiple dimensions and universes. Today's science is actually far stranger than yesterday's fiction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top