Official Ruling on the Lady Vols vs UCLA Controversy

[chuckiepoo]

Provide the document and the whole world can agree if that is what is written down, till then it is hearsay.

Five days later, starting a seventh page of discussion, knocked out of the WCWS by Texas, and this is still a relevent topic?

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

10�Runners leaving the base prior to the touch on a fly ball (tagging up), runners missing a base and runners leaving early on a pitch� Note: The crew chief may not initiate a review of runners leaving early on a pitch. This review is only allowed by a coach's challenge.


9� If the reversing of a call results in the need for decisions on the placement of base runners, the crew chief shall use their best judgment and/or the appropriate rule to determine where to place the runners as if the call had been made correctly�

Yes, and here is why in PLAIN English from the holy grail Appendix G..

Could not cut and paste from the rulebook on my mobie so here it is from my borrowed laptop

The above #9 is from the reviewable plays section of G and the #10 is from the following criteria section. I agree that by the letter of the law a coach cannot appeal based on the illegal assistance that the umps admitted took place, but hid behind that replay could not review it, HOWEVER look at CHARGE for the crew chief to use their judgement and place the runners as if it had been correctly called..... THAT IS PRETTY PLAIN.....
In the absence of documented position that it would only be a warning THIS is still on the table. I have now shown my work.... Umps and defenders need to show theirs.

 

[chuckiepoo]

10�Runners leaving the base prior to the touch on a fly ball (tagging up), runners missing a base and runners leaving early on a pitch� Note: The crew chief may not initiate a review of runners leaving early on a pitch. This review is only allowed by a coach's challenge.


9� If the reversing of a call results in the need for decisions on the placement of base runners, the crew chief shall use their best judgment and/or the appropriate rule to determine where to place the runners as if the call had been made correctly�

Yes, and here is why in PLAIN English from the holy grail Appendix G..

Could not cut and paste from the rulebook on my mobie so here it is from my borrowed laptop

The above #9 is from the reviewable plays section of G and the #10 is from the following criteria section. I agree that by the letter of the law a coach cannot appeal based on the illegal assistance that the umps admitted took place, but hid behind that replay could not review it, HOWEVER look at CHARGE for the crew chief to use their judgement and place the runners as if it had been correctly called..... THAT IS PRETTY PLAIN.....
In the absence of documented position that it would only be a warning THIS is still on the table. I have now shown my work.... Umps and defenders need to show theirs.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

In fairness, while still searching the rule book I found the WARNING reffence.. which follows, but NOTICE this only addresses TOUCHING, not assisting the runner in gettting to base..... I will continue to see if there is something more applicable..... lot of crap in rule 12..... sorry... cut and paste treats periods as question marks....


12�17�3�4 Offensive team personnel shall neither interfere with a runner(s) who is legally running the bases on a dead-ball award until the runner(s) contacts home plate nor with the umpire’s ability to see that all bases are properly touched� 12�17�3�4�1 Offensive team personnel, other than base coaches and base runner(s), shall not touch a runner(s) until the runner(s) contacts home plate� 12�17�3�4�2 Offensive team personnel shall congregate only in foul territory around home plate to congratulate the runner(s)� EFFECT—For the first offense of Rule 12.17.3.4, the umpire shall issue a warning to the offending team.

EDITED TO ADD THE FIRST INSTALLMENT OF ASSISTED RUNNING....

12.4 Runner is Out The runner is out: 12�4�1 When, on a play where they are not forced, a fielder legally tags them as in Rule 12�9�1� 12�4�2 When, on a force play, a fielder puts them out as in Rule 12�9�2� 12�4�3 When they physically pass (that is, completely overtakes) a preceding runner before that runner has been put out, unless the passed runner (1) was obstructed or (2) was tagging up on a fly foul ball that is ultimately uncaught� Notes: 1. If this was the third out of the half inning, any runs scoring before the out for passing a preceding runner would count. 2. Runners are returned to proper order as soon as the ball is declared dead. 12�4�4 When a coach or anyone other than another runner who has not yet crossed the plate physically assists them while they are actively running the bases and the ball is in play�

No question she was running the bases, Not sure about the IN PLAY portion in AWARDED BASES situations... Rule intent is pretty clears.

 

[glv98]

In fairness, while still searching the rule book I found the WARNING reffence.. which follows, but NOTICE this only addresses TOUCHING, not assisting the runner in gettting to base..... I will continue to see if there is something more applicable..... lot of crap in rule 12..... sorry... cut and paste treats periods as question marks....


12�17�3�4 Offensive team personnel shall neither interfere with a runner(s) who is legally running the bases on a dead-ball award until the runner(s) contacts home plate nor with the umpire’s ability to see that all bases are properly touched� 12�17�3�4�1 Offensive team personnel, other than base coaches and base runner(s), shall not touch a runner(s) until the runner(s) contacts home plate� 12�17�3�4�2 Offensive team personnel shall congregate only in foul territory around home plate to congratulate the runner(s)� EFFECT—For the first offense of Rule 12.17.3.4, the umpire shall issue a warning to the offending team.

Well there you go. It’s officially a warning. Thanks for being honest enough to bring it forward.

But disturbingly, every tin foil crown will still stay in place.

 

[volfan102455]

I still don’t believe the announcers made that up on the spot on the air. I believe a warning is and was the rule. Was everyone relieved it didn’t end on that incident? Of course. Was a make good created on the spot and agreed to by all? Of course not.

It’s far too easy to disprove if it wasn’t the rule. Both dugouts literally had rule books out pouring over. If any rule was misrepresented we would know.

Those same announcers had said the US lost the gold medal in the same type situation. The idea that it was a warning was something stated later. The original decision was that the assist was not reviewable.

 

[volfan102455]

In fairness, while still searching the rule book I found the WARNING reffence.. which follows, but NOTICE this only addresses TOUCHING, not assisting the runner in gettting to base..... I will continue to see if there is something more applicable..... lot of crap in rule 12..... sorry... cut and paste treats periods as question marks....


12�17�3�4 Offensive team personnel shall neither interfere with a runner(s) who is legally running the bases on a dead-ball award until the runner(s) contacts home plate nor with the umpire’s ability to see that all bases are properly touched� 12�17�3�4�1 Offensive team personnel, other than base coaches and base runner(s), shall not touch a runner(s) until the runner(s) contacts home plate� 12�17�3�4�2 Offensive team personnel shall congregate only in foul territory around home plate to congratulate the runner(s)� EFFECT—For the first offense of Rule 12.17.3.4, the umpire shall issue a warning to the offending team.

EDITED TO ADD THE FIRST INSTALLMENT OF ASSISTED RUNNING....

12.4 Runner is Out The runner is out: 12�4�1 When, on a play where they are not forced, a fielder legally tags them as in Rule 12�9�1� 12�4�2 When, on a force play, a fielder puts them out as in Rule 12�9�2� 12�4�3 When they physically pass (that is, completely overtakes) a preceding runner before that runner has been put out, unless the passed runner (1) was obstructed or (2) was tagging up on a fly foul ball that is ultimately uncaught� Notes: 1. If this was the third out of the half inning, any runs scoring before the out for passing a preceding runner would count. 2. Runners are returned to proper order as soon as the ball is declared dead. 12�4�4 When a coach or anyone other than another runner who has not yet crossed the plate physically assists them while they are actively running the bases and the ball is in play�

No question she was running the bases, Not sure about the IN PLAY portion in AWARDED BASES situations... Rule intent is pretty clears.

This is actually clear - if the play had been reviewable - it would have been an out not a warning.

The question is whether it was a just a "touch" or "assist". A touch is a warning; an assist is an "out". A touch is like a "high five" or congratulatory act - an assist is "here you missed the base - let me hold your hand and take you back to touch the base".

The umps ruled that they (1) did not see what happened and (2) it was not something they could review. The "review" was clear - the runner was assisted. That would have been an "out" not a "warning". But in their opinion, it was neither because it was not reviewable.

Had the runner just been told - hey you missed the base, and she backed up and touched it without being "ASSISTED" no warning and no out. But that is not what happened, the runner was physically held by a player who was not another runner on base from the play and directed back to touch the base. That is "assisting" the runner.

 

[volfan102455]

Well there you go. It’s officially a warning. Thanks for being honest enough to bring it forward.

But disturbingly, every tin foil crown will still stay in place.

Actually you need to read "the runner is out" part of what was posted.

The question was always - was the runner assisted. That is an out.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Actually you need to read "the runner is out" part of what was posted.

The question was always - was the runner assisted. That is an out.

Most importantly G #9 gave the
On field ump the” requirement” to PLACE RUNNERS as if they calls it correctly real time. That would be on the bench as an out. They are trying to hide behind the out of town replay guy limitations. Just need to fess up and send us one of those letters.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Well there you go. It’s officially a warning. Thanks for being honest enough to bring it forward.

But disturbingly, every tin foil crown will still stay in place.

What part of the difference between TOUCHING and ASSISTING do you not grasp and which rule Is most applicable. I will give them the free touch, but demand the assist rule be applied. Some just touched, others literally pulled her back to the plate. No free pass in the assist rule.

That’s is before the other OUT call for blocking the umps view of the plate or others touching the plate before she did.