Official Ruling on the Lady Vols vs UCLA Controversy

#26
#26
AllVols3 said:
That's stupid, just touch home and complete the HR. If you don't, you should be out. You are closet UCLA fan ?
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Yeah man just been here since 2008 waiting for this moment.

When your only reasoning is "because it should be that way", you're the one with the stupid idea. Just FYI.
 
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#28
#28
CLEARLY….thats the rule from T-Ball (I guess) to the MLB. It’s a simple rule that EVERYONE should know intimately. It would have been awkward had the game ended on that play BUT CLEARLY that would have been the correct call. In the end the home plate ump HAD ONE JOB on that play…and by his own admission…he failed to do his job. Glad LV won in the end. BTW…if this seemingly irrelevant rule troubles one…THEN NEVER be a rules official in golf. You’ll go crazy😂😂😂.
 
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#31
#31
The interesting thing is that per the announcers, the US lost a game because of a similar situation.

It would have definitely been a bad way to end the game - but it would have been just as bad if the UCLA had won the game after that.

The ruling was basically -- yes, if she missed the base and a player who wasn't supposed to be on the field of play assisted her to touch the base, then she should have been out due to the assist - but we can't review it, and we didn't see it so we can't call the out.

What will come out of this is elimination of the gathering around the home plate in these types of situations to ensure the umpire has the clear view of the base.
 
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#32
#32
It's one of the most fundamental parts of the game, touching the base. Both runners and fielders have the responsibility to tag the base to be safe and/or out. The fact that it couldn't be challenged is odd as well. Glaring grey area in the rules and/or their application.

No one wants to see a game decided on such an instance, but if they were throwing her out at home and the fielder didn't touch the base, it would certainly have been different. Even if the outcome is obvious, the play still needs to be made.

Glad to see that the LV's still moved on to the final 4. Go Lady Vols!
 
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#33
#33
volfan102455 said:
The interesting thing is that per the announcers, the US lost a game because of a similar situation.

It would have definitely been a bad way to end the game - but it would have been just as bad if the UCLA had won the game after that.

The ruling was basically -- yes, if she missed the base and a player who wasn't supposed to be on the field of play assisted her to touch the base, then she should have been out due to the assist - but we can't review it, and we didn't see it so we can't call the out.

What will come out of this is elimination of the gathering around the home plate in these types of situations to ensure the umpire has the clear view of the base.
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nothing
 
#34
#34
I anticipate two rule changes next season coming from this game, 1) reviewing the touching of home plate and 2) an extra base being placed next to first base similar to college baseball.

SN: Whichever ump(s) that missed the UCLA player not touching home plate should be done for the rest of the tourney.
 
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#35
#35
volfan102455 said:
The interesting thing is that per the announcers, the US lost a game because of a similar situation.

It would have definitely been a bad way to end the game - but it would have been just as bad if the UCLA had won the game after that.

The ruling was basically -- yes, if she missed the base and a player who wasn't supposed to be on the field of play assisted her to touch the base, then she should have been out due to the assist - but we can't review it, and we didn't see it so we can't call the out.

What will come out of this is elimination of the gathering around the home plate in these types of situations to ensure the umpire has the clear view of the base.
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Actually…..there’s way way way to much “celebrating” during softball games IMO anyway. Celebrate in the dugout if you like but don’t scream and have a pile-on simply because you threw a runner out at first base….JMO.
 
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#36
#36
Titans4Vols said:
Better that the game was decided by actual play on the field rather than such a stupid rule anyway.

Call may have been wrong by rule book definition, but the right call was made for the spirit of the game.

It was a home run, who cares how/when/etc the base is touched.
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Good point. And in keeping with that logic about saving time and fundamentals, I would suggest that any infielder that fields a ground ball cleanly should not have to make the throw to first in order for the batter to be out.

After all... running bases and throwing a ball to first are about as simple as it gets.
 
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#37
#37
Here’s another mind boggling play from this game, the UCLA runner leaving 3rd base on the infield fly that our shortstop missed. If she would have stayed at 3rd base she was safe. That’s not a force play, runners advance at their own risk. It’s just like she was stealing 3rd base and she would have to be tagged to be out. I can’t believe our 3rd baseman didn’t know this and UCLA 3rd base coach not telling her to stay on the bag. She was out because she left the field and went to the dugout. It’s a confusing play that should be practiced by all teams in situational awareness. I’ve seen good high school teams cover this exact situation. Also, An infielder cannot drop an infield fly situation on purpose to get runners to leave the base. I still cant believe that play happened at that level of softball and no one knew the rule with the situation.
 
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#38
#38
To me would like to see rule Change of if an out of the park HR occurs
1) HR no matter what
2) even if base runner leaves early, HR stays intact
 
#41
#41
M40 said:
To me would like to see rule Change of if an out of the park HR occurs
1) HR no matter what
2) even if base runner leaves early, HR stays intact
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NOPE, for EVERY play you must stay in the basepaths and touch every base, batter and base runners. Otherwise a player could run by their bullpen and high 5 their teammates and run victory circles 5 feet outside every base as they make their way home.

I cannot believe that there was not an impactive action that was not reviewable on this play that would have made this an out. How can they justify reviewing a base runner leaving early and NOT whether a base is leagally touched? Any base by any base runner????
 
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#42
#42
The rules that apply concern reviewing the official’s call. On the field, the official called the runner safe at home. This is not reviewable for the runner missing a base, including home plate. Though the rule is widely contested, it is still in force.

Yes, clearly the runner did not touch home plate before she was mobbed by teammates who did touch her and home plate. She was then assisted to touch home plate by her teammate. By rule, she’s out. But, an official on the field ruled her safe, a bad call that by rule cannot be reviewed or changed.
 
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#43
#43
volfan102455 said:
The interesting thing is that per the announcers, the US lost a game because of a similar situation.

It would have definitely been a bad way to end the game - but it would have been just as bad if the UCLA had won the game after that.

The ruling was basically -- yes, if she missed the base and a player who wasn't supposed to be on the field of play assisted her to touch the base, then she should have been out due to the assist - but we can't review it, and we didn't see it so we can't call the out.

What will come out of this is elimination of the gathering around the home plate in these types of situations to ensure the umpire has the clear view of the base.
Click to expand...

He had a clear view.

Watch the video.

 
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#45
#45
Can some techno savy guy post from the rule book Rules 12.10.1, 12.10.15 and 12.12.1. This will help clear up the questions about the rules.

The umps rightly did not point out she missed the plate, BUT BUT BUT read the part about the defensive team appeal process.

Could not find specific reference to the illegal assistance that they referenced. I do not believe the lack of specific reference in G takes review out of play. I. e. No reference to base runner leaving early there either.

Note, mine is an old book and could not cut and paste from it.
 
#46
#46
IBlvNTmWrk said:
And just for reference, here's a copy of Appendix G. If they wanted to, it would seem like they could have possibly applied example #4 (obstruction and interference) as a reason to allow the review, but at this point I'm just glad the ladies stayed focused and took care of business.
View attachment 745801
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I think that appendix is bad and needs to be taken out.
 
#47
#47
alexvol said:
Who pitches tomorrow ...that is the question ......
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Think I might try to go with an opener and see if she could get through the lineup one time. Sage is fairly good getting through the first time it is the second when they figure her out. Anyway lessening Karlyn's pitches is something you want to try. We have to win twice in the same day no way she can throw both games, but she could throw four innings a game.
 
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#48
#48
GUNTERSVOL said:
Can some techno savy guy post from the rule book Rules 12.10.1, 12.10.15 and 12.12.1. This will help clear up the questions about the rules.

The umps rightly did not point out she missed the plate, BUT BUT BUT read the part about the defensive team appeal process.

Could not find specific reference to the illegal assistance that they referenced. I do not believe the lack of specific reference in G takes review out of play. I. e. No reference to base runner leaving early there either.

Note, mine is an old book and could not cut and paste from it.
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Yep, it was obviously a case of they were looking for any reason to not make the correct call. Everybody was thinking, "Gosh, it would be just awful if UCLA lost because they didn't follow that one silly little rule about touching all the bases," but totally disregarded how also utterly crappy and unfair it would have been if Tennessee had ended up losing a game that, by the rules, they should have won in the top of the 7th.

I have always said the same thing in regard to basketball, when the expectation now is that if a player fouls in the last couple seconds of a close game that the officials should not call the foul in order to "keep the game from being decided by the refs."

I've always thought that was TOTAL BULL. If there was a foul, then do NOT take away the possibility of one team to win because the other team fouled just because you hate to see someone lose on a last-second foul. It's the most ridiculously, non-sensically, infuriatingly unfair idea in sports to me to award one team a pass just because of WHEN they made their mistake. That unfairly punishes the team that had fairly put themselves in position to win. Ugh.
 
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#49
#49
Titans4Vols said:
Better that the game was decided by actual play on the field rather than such a stupid rule anyway.

Call may have been wrong by rule book definition, but the right call was made for the spirit of the game.

It was a home run, who cares how/when/etc the base is touched.
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You think a kick off or punt returner who drops the ball right before the goal line while heading into the end zone celebrating to early should still get the TD?? Home plate=endzone
 
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