Official Global Warming thread (merged)

#4,105
#4,105
Mtntrout said:
Out of curiosity, what was predicted to have happened by now since the early 1990's?
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I don't exactly know but I distinctly remember being taught in the 70's that we would be in another ice age by now.

Looking at the weather predictions this week they might have gotten that one right.
 
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#4,106
#4,106
BartW said:
Heathen!

Papal Infallibility

Yes, we will see what he writes.
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Father Jonathan Morris

Hysteria that Pope Francis will release encyclical re: "global warming" is unfounded. It's mostly about "human ecology", that includes caring for God's creation.
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You mean the Pope who named himself after the Patron Saint of Animals is going to talk about caring for Animals?
 
#4,108
#4,108
VolsNSkinsFan said:
You mean the Pope who named himself after the Patron Saint of Animals is going to talk about caring for Animals?
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What, did the Fox News priest tell you the Pope’s encyclical will be on animal rights?

According to bishop Sorondo, a fellow Argentinian and head of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences,

Following the lead of the great recent Popes, especially Paul VI, Pope Francis has a unique role as a religious leader and moral guidance to protect, preserve, sustainably develop the natural environment and achieve that social inclusion that can no longer be postponed. The problem of climate change has become a major social and moral problem, and mentalities can only be changed on moral and religious grounds.

Therefore, our Academics supported the Pope’s initiative to publish an Encyclical or another such important document on climate and social inclusion to influence next year’s crucial decisions.

In fact, the idea is to convene a meeting with the religious leaders of the main religions to make all people aware of the state of our climate and the tragedy of social exclusion starting from the biblical message that man is the steward of nature and of its environmental and human development according to its potential and not against it, as Paul IV intended.
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At the climate conference in Lima last month, bishops from every continent called for an end to fossil fuels. Methinks this encyclical will not be to your liking... but how about we ignore the talking heads and just agree to read it when it's published ;)
 
#4,109
#4,109
Here’s The State-Based Climate Solution That Doesn’t Need Congress

Article is about Pennsylvania joining the RGGI, but I thought I’d focus on this tad:
The purpose of any cap-and-trade system is simple enough. First, put a hard ceiling on how much greenhouse gas (GHG) can be emitted in a given year by every firm subject to the system. That’s the “cap.” Then take the total amount of GHGs the cap allows for that year, and divide it up into permits, each one allowing whoever holds it to emit one ton of emissions. Then all the firms can buy and sell the permits among one another. That’s the “trade.”

The system ensures everyone has a profit motive to reduce their emissions: the more they cut, the fewer permits they need to buy, and the more excess permits they can sell to others. Some firms may cut a little, and some firms may cut a lot, just as long as the total reduction matches the cap. And without specific regulatory rules, everyone in the system can also pick and choose the least-costly reductions that work for them. In effect, a cap-and-trade system turns all the firms in it into a giant cooperative laboratory looking for the most efficient combination of ways to meet that one cumulative reduction.

Where cap-and-trade sets a cap on emissions and then lets the market figure out the price, carbon taxes set a price on emissions to incentivize the market to reach a particular reduction target. All other things being equal, economists tend to prefer carbon taxes; they’re simpler, and don’t require the creation of whole new financial instruments or trading markets. And it’s a little easier to link cap-and-trade systems to each other than to link them to a carbon tax. But the effect of a carbon tax or cap-and-trade system is “essentially symmetric,” as Stavins put it. “There’s very little difference between the two. The advantage at this point of cap-and-trade is mainly that some important states like California plus the Northeast have already gone forward with it.”
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This is the kind of climate bill Congress should pass (but won’t)

About the American Opportunity Carbon Fee Act (revenue-neutral carbon tax)

The most efficient taxes will tend to be the simplest ones, without a bunch of loopholes to protect incumbent industries. So it’s good to hash out this kind of bill in the open rather than making a bunch of compromises with special interests behind closed doors, as happened with the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill in 2009. That’s why last year Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), cosponsor of that failed bill and a super–climate hawk, called for writing a new bill and making it a carbon tax.
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#4,112
#4,112
quick question on either system, is the cap/tax based merely on the emissions of their US based operations, or would it also hit any non local operations? just wondering if they are going to be able to move to international areas to get away from some of these measures.
 
#4,113
#4,113
Why the Kochs and the Walmart clan are trying to stop you from putting solar panels on your roof

For anyone that still thinks republicans are against taxes.


That prospect is enough to upset the Koch brothers, the heirs of the Walmart fortune and the utility industry, all which are trying to stamp out the rooftop solar movement or at least make a tidy profit penalizing the people who use it. With the help of powerful lobbyists and PACs like the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and Americans for Prosperity, they are set to do battle in statehouses across the nation in 2015.

"ALEC, which receives much of its funding from the utility industry and fossil-fuel investors like the Kochs, has long been an opponent of renewable energy and the Obama administration’s effort to reduce carbon emissions. It’s working with conservative activists and corporate interests to fight homeowners who are installing solar panels on their roofs. Calling people who install rooftop solar panel “freeriders,” another word for freeloaders, the pro-corporate group is actively promoting legislation in states to charge fees, even exorbitant ones, for rooftop solar installations."

Thoughts on the article?
 
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#4,114
#4,114
#VFL__ said:
Why the Kochs and the Walmart clan are trying to stop you from putting solar panels on your roof

For anyone that still thinks republicans are against taxes.


That prospect is enough to upset the Koch brothers, the heirs of the Walmart fortune and the utility industry, all which are trying to stamp out the rooftop solar movement or at least make a tidy profit penalizing the people who use it. With the help of powerful lobbyists and PACs like the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and Americans for Prosperity, they are set to do battle in statehouses across the nation in 2015.

"ALEC, which receives much of its funding from the utility industry and fossil-fuel investors like the Kochs, has long been an opponent of renewable energy and the Obama administration’s effort to reduce carbon emissions. It’s working with conservative activists and corporate interests to fight homeowners who are installing solar panels on their roofs. Calling people who install rooftop solar panel “freeriders,” another word for freeloaders, the pro-corporate group is actively promoting legislation in states to charge fees, even exorbitant ones, for rooftop solar installations."

Thoughts on the article?
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I have dealt with this in the real world. when the utilities find out you are building solar panel systems in a new project they will often delay, to the point where it ruins projects, sending out their people to hook the project up. and they are charging fees for the installation and hookup. basically they try to slow down the approval process, or raise the cost up, so much that the client gives up.

its dirty and desperate but those with money will always try to protect their way.

i have yet to hear a good reason for rooftop solars being a bad thing. one area the article doesn't go into but is a talking point in the field is the day time selling of energy from the residential areas back into the city. so this goes beyond the homeowners cutting the cord but also the cities, to an extent.
 
#4,115
#4,115
I'm pretty sure it's because the utilities are forced to pay retail for your electricity, with no consideration of demand or grid infrastructure. If they could just isolate and ignore the rooftop solar people, they would.
 
#4,116
#4,116
Weezy said:
I'm pretty sure it's because the utilities are forced to pay retail for your electricity, with no consideration of demand or grid infrastructure. If they could just isolate and ignore the rooftop solar people, they would.
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you have a point with the retail, however in doesn't take anything special on their part to hook up to the solar house and start receiving power. the solar panel systems are made to work with the existing grid based panels in every house.

basically if you want the solar panels to work in an existing house it has to work with the grid, therefore no problem for the utility except that they have to buy power back often times.
 
#4,117
#4,117
Grid maintenance, but that's not the hangup. It's mostly they are paying double for something they don't want (lost customer, plus paying for electricity not needed). And given baseload requirements, my guess is that they cannot take credit for solar which has poor capacity factors. I guess it has peak power working in on it's side, but again, I doubt they factor that into their baseload generation requirements.

I'm not too familiar with grid economics. But my given what I know, I can't fault them for hating rooftop solar producers. They are being forced to do something that has zero positives to their business model.

Ultimately the problem seems to be that you can't choose where that electron comes from.
 
#4,118
#4,118
Weezy said:
Grid maintenance, but that's not the hangup. It's mostly they are paying double for something they don't want (lost customer, plus paying for electricity not needed). And given baseload requirements, my guess is that they cannot take credit for solar which has poor capacity factors. I guess it has peak power working in on it's side, but again, I doubt they factor that into their baseload generation requirements.

I'm not too familiar with grid economics. But my given what I know, I can't fault them for hating rooftop solar producers. They are being forced to do something that has zero positives to their business model.

Ultimately the problem seems to be that you can't choose where that electron comes from.
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i live in atlanta, where they have brown outs way too much. solar would help a lot for crap like that.

i don't blame them for not liking it, i blame them for taking shady measures to slow/stop it.

they need to go ahead and start figuring out how they could function, as a business, as grid provider instead of power provider.
 
#4,120
#4,120
VolsNSkinsFan said:
I've live in ATL for a decade and have never heard of or experienced a brownout
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really, never had the power flicker and go out during peak times? I have been here for 2 years, and really the only reason i notice is when i am on my desktop. bothered me enough where i bought a battery for the sob. you must live in a nicer area than me.
 
#4,121
#4,121
Weezy said:
I'm pretty sure it's because the utilities are forced to pay retail for your electricity, with no consideration of demand or grid infrastructure. If they could just isolate and ignore the rooftop solar people, they would.
Click to expand...

I have had my solar panels for a couple of years now. The utility absolutely does NOT pay retail for my excess electricity. They pay wholesale or about 1/3 to 1/5 of retail, depending on baseline. I also pay a monthly fee to contribute to grid maintenance.

Where does the utility pay retail?
 
#4,122
#4,122
Danl said:
I have had my solar panels for a couple of years now. The utility absolutely does NOT pay retail for my excess electricity. They pay wholesale or about 1/3 to 1/5 of retail, depending on baseline. I also pay a monthly fee to contribute to grid maintenance.

Where does the utility pay retail?
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In some screwed up areas like chattanooga. That's changing though.
 
#4,123
#4,123
#VFL__ said:
Why the Kochs and the Walmart clan are trying to stop you from putting solar panels on your roof

For anyone that still thinks republicans are against taxes.


That prospect is enough to upset the Koch brothers, the heirs of the Walmart fortune and the utility industry, all which are trying to stamp out the rooftop solar movement or at least make a tidy profit penalizing the people who use it. With the help of powerful lobbyists and PACs like the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and Americans for Prosperity, they are set to do battle in statehouses across the nation in 2015.

"ALEC, which receives much of its funding from the utility industry and fossil-fuel investors like the Kochs, has long been an opponent of renewable energy and the Obama administration’s effort to reduce carbon emissions. It’s working with conservative activists and corporate interests to fight homeowners who are installing solar panels on their roofs. Calling people who install rooftop solar panel “freeriders,” another word for freeloaders, the pro-corporate group is actively promoting legislation in states to charge fees, even exorbitant ones, for rooftop solar installations."

Thoughts on the article?
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Makes sense

Ebay joins Google and others in dumping Alec over climate stance
 
#4,124
#4,124
LouderVol said:
really, never had the power flicker and go out during peak times? I have been here for 2 years, and really the only reason i notice is when i am on my desktop. bothered me enough where i bought a battery for the sob. you must live in a nicer area than me.
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Absolutely not. And I have lived in all parts of town. Must be an electrical issue in your area
 
#4,125
#4,125
News out of Germany is that renewables going up, carbon emissions down, and prices down. Hard for me to believe. I'm guessing the price numbers are cooked with government subsidies. Unless it's just last year was terrible, so nowhere to go but down.
 
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