Official Ben Howland Thread

#201
#201
drewtigeralum said:
Did that coach go on to say that he knew if he didn't win in the first 2 years he would be on the hot seat, even with roster issues? Any sort of rebuilding job at U.T. is fraught with peril.
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Any time you're following a Keady taught hack you're program is going to have some issues.
 
#205
#205
drewtigeralum said:
So, if the next coach doesn't win big in the next 2 years, that will be acceptable?
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people are able to look at the roster to see what Martin left us. Unproven pg. No center. No 4. No shooters.

In year 4. Which is ridiculous. Good thing Martin didn't bring in guys like Miller, Yemi, Wes, Chievous, Pops, Edwards and Reese to basically waste an entire starting 5 and a 2 subs of scholarships.
 
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#206
#206
Spartacavolus said:
people are able to look at the roster to see what Martin left us. Unproven pg. No center. No 4. No shooters.

In year 4. Which is ridiculous. Good thing Martin didn't bring in guys like Miller, Yemi, Wes, Chievous, Pops, Edwards and Reese to basically waste an entire starting 5 and a 2 subs of scholarships.
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Would you say that most teams who graduate or lose 4 starters probably have a few questions on their roster. Considering that most teams go 8-9 deep?

Thompson, Richardson, Hubbs is an excellent backcourt. The front court is unproven, but that is to be expected with Maymon and Stokes eating up the majority of minutes in the post. Would you have preferred both of them to play less in order to develop more players?
 
#207
#207
drewtigeralum said:
Would you say that most teams who graduate or lose 4 starters probably have a few questions on their roster. Considering that most teams go 8-9 deep?

Thompson, Richardson, Hubbs is an excellent backcourt. The front court is unproven, but that is to be expected with Maymon and Stokes eating up the majority of minutes in the post. Would you have preferred both of them to play less in order to develop more players?
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Maybe had the petition came out sooner and Zo/team decided to crank it up earlier in the year then maybe winning a few more in the regular season allows the younger guys to see more minutes and aid in developing the talent knowing the top 2 bigs were going to be gone the next year. Waiting till the absolute last minute to try and limp into the tourney kind of slows that process. When you MUST win the next 4-5 to get the play in game, developing talent is on the back burner I guess.
 
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#208
#208
Spartacavolus said:
people are able to look at the roster to see what Martin left us. Unproven pg. No center. No 4. No shooters.

In year 4. Which is ridiculous. Good thing Martin didn't bring in guys like Miller, Yemi, Wes, Chievous, Pops, Edwards and Reese to basically waste an entire starting 5 and a 2 subs of scholarships.
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I firmly believe that under the right coach we can eek out 18-20 wins next year behind JRich and Hubbs.

Not great, but okay considering the circumstances.
 
#209
#209
UTodd01 said:
I firmly believe that under the right coach we can eek out 18-20 wins next year behind JRich and Hubbs.

Not great, but okay considering the circumstances.
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Absolutely. In CBB you can win a lot if games by having 1 or 2 very good players, Hubbs & Richardson have that potential.
 
#210
#210
Spartacavolus said:
people are able to look at the roster to see what Martin left us. Unproven pg. No center. No 4. No shooters.

In year 4. Which is ridiculous. Good thing Martin didn't bring in guys like Miller, Yemi, Wes, Chievous, Pops, Edwards and Reese to basically waste an entire starting 5 and a 2 subs of scholarships.
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What did Bruce Pearl leave, other than a bunch of, gasp, unproven players?

Let's take a look.

Cam Tatum - 8.8 pts 3 rebounds 2 assists (top returning scorer)

Renaldo Woolridge - 1.6 pts 1.4 rebounds

Jordan MacRae - 1.8 pts .8 rebounds

Skylar McBee - 3 pts, 1 rebound, .6 assists

Jerrone Maymon - 2.6 pts, 2.8 rebounds

Kenny Hall - 2 pts, 1.8 rebounds

Trae Golden - 3 pts, 1.1 rebounds, 2.2 assists.

Just doing the math, Martin inherited, 22.8 ppg

I would like you to find me a proven PG, power forward, and center out of that group.


Now, to whatever new coach will be inheriting.

Josh Richardson - 10 pts, 3 rebounds

A.J. Davis - 1.3 pts 1.6 rebounds

Darius Thompson - 2.5 pts, 2.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists

Derek Reece - 2.4 pts 3 rebounds

Rawane Ndiaye - 1pt, 1 rebound

Armani Moore - 3 pts, 2 rebounds

Rober Hubbs - 5 pts, 1.5 rebound

So again, just doing the math.

U.T. returns 25.1 pts.

Seems similar does it not?
 
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#211
#211
LebanonVolunteer said:
Maybe had the petition came out sooner and Zo/team decided to crank it up earlier in the year then maybe winning a few more in the regular season allows the younger guys to see more minutes and aid in developing the talent knowing the top 2 bigs were going to be gone the next year. Waiting till the absolute last minute to try and limp into the tourney kind of slows that process. When you MUST win the next 4-5 to get the play in game, developing talent is on the back burner I guess.
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Maybe you guys should just start a petition at the start of every season for a preemptive strike. Seems like you would be missing out on a great motivating factor if you don't.
 
#212
#212
drewtigeralum said:
Would you say that most teams who graduate or lose 4 starters probably have a few questions on their roster. Considering that most teams go 8-9 deep?

Thompson, Richardson, Hubbs is an excellent backcourt. The front court is unproven, but that is to be expected with Maymon and Stokes eating up the majority of minutes in the post. Would you have preferred both of them to play less in order to develop more players?
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I prefer a coach not to waste 7 scholarships in 3 years so there is depth in yr 4, rather than rebuilding. He didn't recruit or plan well.
 
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#213
#213
drewtigeralum said:
Maybe you guys should just start a petition at the start of every season for a preemptive strike. Seems like you would be missing out on a great motivating factor if you don't.
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I'd guess Hart is currently searching for a coach who does not need his job threatened before he motivates his players. I trust Hart will find the right guy.
 
#214
#214
Spartacavolus said:
I prefer a coach not to waste 7 scholarships in 3 years so there is depth in yr 4, rather than rebuilding. He didn't recruit or plan well.
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Would you care to compare the players Bruce left with the player Martin left?

Here is something crazy about basketball players. Sometimes they get better as they get older.
 
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#215
#215
UTodd01 said:
I firmly believe that under the right coach we can eek out 18-20 wins next year behind JRich and Hubbs.

Not great, but okay considering the circumstances.
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And that's what Martin's groupies don't get. Next year with Martin and this squad is a disaster. He can't coach pgs and would slow it down trying to stay close to teams and maybe reach the nit. Without Martin, there are a couple of coaches that I think could turn that same, slowpaced and ugly team into a contender for the tourney. Moore, jrich, Dt, Davis, Hubbs...could be nasty in an uptempo full court. Athletes all over. They are built for it. Martin wouldve handcuffed them into a halfcourt game. We need White or Archie if next year is going to be watchable, imo.
 
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#216
#216
Spartacavolus said:
And that's what Martin's groupies don't get. Next year with Martin and this squad is a disaster. He can't coach pgs and would slow it down trying to stay close to teams and maybe reach the nit. Without Martin, there are a couple of coaches that I think could turn that same, slowpaced and ugly team into a contender for the tourney. Moore, jrich, Dt, Davis, Hubbs...could be nasty in an uptempo full court. Athletes all over. They are built for it. Martin wouldve handcuffed them into a halfcourt game. We need White or Archie if next year is going to be watchable, imo.
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So now you're going with your ability to see into the future again? I'm not sure that's how you're supposed to debate.
 
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#217
#217
Spartacavolus said:
And that's what Martin's groupies don't get. Next year with Martin and this squad is a disaster. He can't coach pgs and would slow it down trying to stay close to teams and maybe reach the nit. Without Martin, there are a couple of coaches that I think could turn that same, slowpaced and ugly team into a contender for the tourney. Moore, jrich, Dt, Davis, Hubbs...could be nasty in an uptempo full court. Athletes all over. They are built for it. Martin wouldve handcuffed them into a halfcourt game. We need White or Archie if next year is going to be watchable, imo.
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Listen to Martin's interview with Hyams, he appears to have actually learned this time and isn't going to revert. When Hyams asked what he had learned he talked about how he had never played zone when he came to UT. Said that they won games last year because of it, and he will immediately implement it at Cal as well, said it's a weapon that can help them win games. Said he learned that they can't just focus on defense in practice, and letting the guys get out and have some freedom was a big difference. Also mentioned how we won't take players just to fill a spot immediately in Cal, is gonna be more patient and get guys that fit.

I know you likely won't agree with this, but I think Cal got a better coach than Tennessee got. In other words, I think if say we were hiring a Cuonzo now instead of 3 years ago results would've been different, I think he will do fine at Cal.
 
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#218
#218
drewtigeralum said:
Would you care to compare the players Bruce left with the player Martin left?

Here is something crazy about basketball players. Sometimes they get better as they get older.
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I already did the comparison and it's close, which is absurd. Yr 1 for after probation and a nasty coaching turnover is in line with what he is leaving going into yr 4 after a sweet 16 run.

And no smartass comments necessary regarding players getting better as the get older. Most do that anyway If a coach can't speed up the process, then he isn't anybody I want.
 
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#219
#219
drewtigeralum said:
So now you're going with your ability to see into the future again? I'm not sure that's how you're supposed to debate.
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It's my opinion. Get over it. If we have to deal with your 100% skewed opinion of this whole deal, you can deal with my opinion that next year wouldve looked ugly.
That's also a reason Martin left. He knew it as well.
 
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#220
#220
Spartacavolus said:
I already did the comparison and it's close, which is absurd. Yr 1 for after probation and a nasty coaching turnover is in line with what he is leaving going into yr 4 after a sweet 16 run.

And no smartass comments necessary regarding players getting better as the get older. Most do that anyway If a coach can't speed up the process, then he isn't anybody I want.
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I'm confused then, Harris was always a 1 and done player, and Hopkins was done with school. The team Martin got was the same team Bruce was going to get. Granted Bruce would have had a better recruiting class to add into the mix.
 
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#221
#221
bleedingTNorange said:
Listen to Martin's interview with Hyams, he appears to have actually learned this time and isn't going to revert. When Hyams asked what he had learned he talked about how he had never played zone when he came to UT. Said that they won games last year because of it, and he will immediately implement it at Cal as well, said it's a weapon that can help them win games. Said he learned that they can't just focus on defense in practice, and letting the guys get out and have some freedom was a big difference. Also mentioned how we won't take players just to fill a spot immediately in Cal, is gonna be more patient and get guys that fit.

I know you likely won't agree with this, but I think Cal got a better coach than Tennessee got. In other words, I think if say we were hiring a Cuonzo now instead of 3 years ago results would've been different, I think he will do fine at Cal.
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We will see, but he is agreeing with what many of us lowly message board posters talked about a few months into his tenure. 2+ years later is too late. That's why many grew tired of it.
 
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#223
#223
Spartacavolus said:
I already did the comparison and it's close, which is absurd. Yr 1 for after probation and a nasty coaching turnover is in line with what he is leaving going into yr 4 after a sweet 16 run.

And no smartass comments necessary regarding players getting better as the get older. Most do that anyway If a coach can't speed up the process, then he isn't anybody I want.
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You're kind of terrible at this. I ask if the coach get's pressure after 2 years if he doesn't win big and you say no, because Martin isn't leaving him with a strong roster.

Then you talk about how Bruce didn't leave Martin with a strong roster, but Martin should have had pressure after 2 years? You seem to contradict yourself.

My main point is that whoever you hire needs to have some time and space to develop the program, and that's longer than 2.5 years.
 
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#224
#224
Spartacavolus said:
We will see, but he is agreeing with what many of us lowly message board posters talked about a few months into his tenure. 2+ years later is too late. That's why many grew tired of it.
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And that's fair and warranted, I'm just saying that I think writing off next year as a sure failure isn't fair IMO. He apparently would've gone small, played a lot of zone and let the guys run.

I get the criticism, I just think Cal is getting a much better coach than we got. If it's White I hope people show a little more patience as he too will be learning on the job.
 
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#225
#225
drewtigeralum said:
You're kind of terrible at this. I ask if the coach get's pressure after 2 years if he doesn't win big and you say no, because Martin isn't leaving him with a strong roster.

Then you talk about how Bruce didn't leave Martin with a strong roster, but Martin should have had pressure after 2 years? You seem to contradict yourself.

My main point is that whoever you hire needs to have some time and space to develop the program, and that's longer than 2.5 years.
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Your act is old. You skew anything your direction and misrepresent others stances well too often. I know I'm not the only one ready for you to move on.
So yes, I'm terrible at following your random bull**** and want no more part of it. Fact is our roster next year is lean, and Martin wasting 7+ scholarships in 3 years is a big reason, and there is no deflection or tangent you can create in your tunnelvisioned mind that takes away from that fact.
You weren't here the first 2 years begging him to make basic and obvious coaching moves that he now admits he should've made.
 
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