Not Top 10, you say? Make your case here!

[zeppelin128]

If we are using what some of these idiots are e using as basis for arguments then OM win over UK wasn’t good. Why? Well according to some of the mega mouth breathers UF isn’t any good. So if we don’t get credit for that being a good win then neither does UK. So that means UKs best win is against Northern Illinois.

It is all rather strange. If we beat LSU, that will be our 3rd top 25 win this year. But as sure as the sun will rise in the east, there will be people saying LSU is overrated because they struggled with the Barn.

I'm just going to enjoy the ride. It is nice to be having these discussions I guess, instead of trying to figure out how we are going to scrape 6 wins together.

 

[Elhanan]

We deserve it until we don’t. I’m just enjoying the ride after years of frustration.

If we beat LSU and just hang with Bama we’ll be at minimum top 15 for a bit.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Im only going to say this ONCE... so read very carefully. TOP 10 teams do not have defenses that rank in the hundreds. Plain and simple. I guess some of you smoke blowers have forgotten there are 3 facets to the game and we are very subpar in one. Now if you would like to think a Top 10 team can suck in one phase of the game or another... fine. Thats your opinion.

And yet...there we are ranked at number 8.

Not sure thats where we will end the season but youre statement that Top 10 teams defenses dont rank in the 100s is factually incorrect.

 

[Sarms58]

I hope we’re a top 10 team but don’t have enough data to say. I’m definitely glad that we are 4-0 thru September for only the second time since Fulmer was coach And we can have these discussion. I’ve been cautiously optimistic all year and remain so. I was worried about playing at Pitt. We beat Pitt in their stadium but so did Georgia Tech. Of course Pitt isn’t a good measuring stick because many on here said we would blow them out - an OT victory is hardly a blow out but it’s a road win against a previously ranked power 5 team. We beat the Gators and were the better team by just about any measure but the Gotars may be a .500 team when it’s all said and done. We played a defensive scheme to try to take away AR’s running skills and to make AR beat us passing. So we gave up plenty of passing yardage to a QB who isn’t that great of a passer. Maybe one day we’ll have an elite D can can take away the QB run without sacrificing a career day in passing yardage. But when it’s all said and done, we beat the Gators by 5 points - snapping a five game losing streak.
We’ll have another test this week in Death Valley. LSU is not a very good football team but are probably comparable to Pitt and Florida. A close win against LSU will still be a win but it’s not going to convince me we’re a top 10 program. I’ll take a close win - or an OT win - just to stay undefeated. But if we want to demonstrate that we are a top ten team we need to win convincingly - moving the ball at will and shutting down LSU’s one dimensional offense. With a win against LSU we’ll be 5-0 but will not have faced a team that managed to stay in the top 25.
When we play Bama there should be no doubt as the whether we really are a top 10 team. Bama has beat us 15 years in a row and most have been blow outs. Let us beat bama or lose in a competitive (one score game) and we can claim legitimate top 10 status IMO.

 

[sona]

I don't really care where we are ranked mid-season, see how it ends up. I think we can score effectively against anyone, and I think we will struggle against any good passing offense. That's it, just beat the next team.

 

[Titans4Vols]

I haven't watched enough of all the other top 25 teams to say, but based on what the top 10 is most years, no, this isn't a top 10 team.

We struggled to the end with a Pitt team that's backup QB was so hobbled he didn't play the next week, and even when healthy went out on Saturday and put up a stinker, at home, to a pitiful Georgia Tech team that just fired it's head coach.

We struggled mightily to stop Anthony Richardson, a 50% passer who hadn't thrown a TD all year and nearly blew the lead at the end. It's Florida vs Tennessee so you can throw the excuses of we have the mental block and the games are always gonna be close when we win and so on and so forth, and maybe, but when paired with the Pitt game it doesn't look good.

We have an offense good enough to be a part of a top 10 team. But the defense is so far behind that it isn't funny. Here's hoping over the bye and in the following weeks it improves and we truly do look like a top 10 team.

 

[SAPPER 5]

Im only going to say this ONCE... so read very carefully. TOP 10 teams do not have defenses that rank in the hundreds. Plain and simple. I guess some of you smoke blowers have forgotten there are 3 facets to the game and we are very subpar in one. Now if you would like to think a Top 10 team can suck in one phase of the game or another... fine. Thats your opinion.

Go root for someone else. FFS.

 

[sjt18]

There are either a dozen or so people who have said in one thread or another over the past few weeks that "Tennessee isn't a Top 10 team, we don't deserve this ranking" .... or there are three or four dudes saying it repeatedly. I haven't kept tabs on them by name, so I don't know which is true.

In either case, if you're one of those people who have said it, here's your chance! This thread is entirely set aside for you to explain.

Your response should include as a minimum, this information:

• The names of three (or more) programs, ranked below us, who you think are better. Minimum three, because we're #8 now. Would take three teams leapfrogging us to push the Vols down out of the top 10.
• For each team, what you have seen in their 2022 resume that convinces you they have the better team. Cover all three teams, please.
• How you believe they'll each finish the season (record and standing in their division/conference), as well as how you believe the Vols will finish up.

I'm honestly intrigued by this. I get the impression you're not just blindly doubting your own team because BVS or whatever. I want to believe you've thought this through, and can explain your rationale.

The floor is yours.

Go Vols!

Let's flip that.

Take away the labels and notice something odd about the other teams in the top 10... there aren't many wins among them over currently ranked teams.

Pitt is a good team that slipped but will likely end up a 9 or maybe even 10 win team when its all said and done.... and ranked. UF got what they needed today and solidified the improvements on O they showed against UT. Napier did something really smart and played a TON of youth today on D trying to build depth.

So check everyone else out if "who UT has beaten" is the case. Bama's wins do not include a currently ranked team. #4 Michigan has not played anyone who has been ranked at any point during the season. UGA beat Oregon who is ranked 12 but no one else. Clemson is the exception with wins over Wake and NCSU.

 

[SAPPER 5]

The AP says we are number 8.

/thread.

Looks like you DO has the brain today!

 

[sjt18]

Im only going to say this ONCE... so read very carefully. TOP 10 teams do not have defenses that rank in the hundreds. Plain and simple. I guess some of you smoke blowers have forgotten there are 3 facets to the game and we are very subpar in one. Now if you would like to think a Top 10 team can suck in one phase of the game or another... fine. Thats your opinion.

Well you must be relieved then that UT ranks 28th in scoring D at 19 ppg, right?

 

[aaronvol]

honestly, it usually takes an entire season of football to figure out who is a legit top 10 team. I would just wait and see...

 

[Stephen Gray]

Well you must be relieved then that UT ranks 28th in scoring D at 19 ppg, right?

I’ll take scoring D over yards D any day.

 

[sjt18]

I haven't watched enough of all the other top 25 teams to say, but based on what the top 10 is most years, no, this isn't a top 10 team.

We struggled to the end with a Pitt team that's backup QB was so hobbled he didn't play the next week, and even when healthy went out on Saturday and put up a stinker, at home, to a pitiful Georgia Tech team that just fired it's head coach.

Did you watch the game or look into it more than what you read from some other poster?

Yeah. UT "struggled"... really kind of did everything they could to lose the game... and still won it because they were the MUCH better team.

We struggled mightily to stop Anthony Richardson, a 50% passer who hadn't thrown a TD all year and nearly blew the lead at the end. It's Florida vs Tennessee so you can throw the excuses of we have the mental block and the games are always gonna be close when we win and so on and so forth, and maybe, but when paired with the Pitt game it doesn't look good.

Have you looked at the other top 10 teams from this perspective? UGA just struggled with a Mizzou team MUCH weaker than Pitt or UF. Michigan struggled with Maryland and a really, really bad Iowa team.

Point is that you could do what you're trying to do to UT to every other top team and rationalize they aren't worthy of being in the top 10.

We have an offense good enough to be a part of a top 10 team. But the defense is so far behind that it isn't funny. Here's hoping over the bye and in the following weeks it improves and we truly do look like a top 10 team.

The D has a lot of work to do but that's the case with just about every team including others in the top 10. Ole Miss can't throw. PSU has only played one team that has an O with a pulse.

Before looking at UT in a vacuum... maybe you should take time to look deeper into the others?

 

[sjt18]

I’ll take scoring D over yards D any day.

Honestly I'd rather have both but considering UT's O... scoring and 3rd down conversions allowed are more important.

If you look at yds allowed vs time of possession (UT is 122 with 26:12 minutes per game. If you normalize total D to 30 minutes TOP (62nd in FBS) then UT would be allowing 355 ypg... a respectable 53rd in CFB... or 8th in the SEC. But I for one do not want the O to slow down. I just want the D to get better at getting off the field on 3rd and 4th down. That's the key stat for UT's D. UT is currently 4th in 3rd down conversions allowed (in the SEC) but teams are learning not to let UT have the ball. UT is 11th in 4th down conversions allowed. Change that... change the entire perception of the D.

PS- I am still not buying DC Banks. The needs to improve over the course of the year for me to believe he's the right guy.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Im only going to say this ONCE... so read very carefully. TOP 10 teams do not have defenses that rank in the hundreds. Plain and simple. I guess some of you smoke blowers have forgotten there are 3 facets to the game and we are very subpar in one. Now if you would like to think a Top 10 team can suck in one phase of the game or another... fine. Thats your opinion.

Lmao

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I haven't watched enough of all the other top 25 teams to say, but based on what the top 10 is most years, no, this isn't a top 10 team.

We struggled to the end with a Pitt team that's backup QB was so hobbled he didn't play the next week, and even when healthy went out on Saturday and put up a stinker, at home, to a pitiful Georgia Tech team that just fired it's head coach.

We struggled mightily to stop Anthony Richardson, a 50% passer who hadn't thrown a TD all year and nearly blew the lead at the end. It's Florida vs Tennessee so you can throw the excuses of we have the mental block and the games are always gonna be close when we win and so on and so forth, and maybe, but when paired with the Pitt game it doesn't look good.

We have an offense good enough to be a part of a top 10 team. But the defense is so far behind that it isn't funny. Here's hoping over the bye and in the following weeks it improves and we truly do look like a top 10 team.

Well here's the thing: we're not ranked top 10 "most years."* We're ranked top 10 this year.

My point with this thread (which is the same point others, like Boro and SJT, have been making in this thread and elsewhere) is that a RANKING system is by its very nature comparative. It puts teams in order. It RELIES on looking at teams, not in isolation, but comparatively.

So anyone who says "we belong here" or "we don't belong there" has no choice: they must explain what they mean in comparison to other teams. They have to actually analyze those other teams as well, so that we can be compared with them. And yes, that means today's teams, teams right now, not of yester-year.

I haven't seen a single person do it yet. I was honestly hoping some of the folks complaining about us being ranked highly (go figure, huh?) would have thought it through. Apparently not a single one has. They just like being unhappy because we're not perfect.

Sorry, fellas. No one is. No team is. But we're better than most.

Go Vols!


* though we all sincerely hope that we're working our way back to that being true, too: ranked top 10 most years. heh.

 

[Stephen Gray]

I haven't seen a single person do it yet. I was honestly hoping some of the folks complaining about us being ranked highly (go figure, huh?) would have thought it through. Apparently not a single one has.
Go Vols!

I agree. If you think there are better teams out there then tell us which ones and why. Even if we don't agree with your choices, that's better than just saying "this doesn't look like a top 10 team". I mean we literally are a top 10 team, as decided by the people who decide such things every week. You can disagree with those people and have other choices, but so far none of the people saying we aren't a top ten team are giving us those other choices.

 

[Volbrando]

We are a top 10 team until we're not.

This

I’m convinced with what I’ve seen this year, if our offense is firing on all cylinders and our defense keeps them from at least scoring less than us we can beat anyone

It’s too bad our pass D isn’t better though, because we’d have a better shot at the top guys

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Let's flip that.

Take away the labels and notice something odd about the other teams in the top 10... there aren't many wins among them over currently ranked teams.

Pitt is a good team that slipped but will likely end up a 9 or maybe even 10 win team when its all said and done.... and ranked. UF got what they needed today and solidified the improvements on O they showed against UT. Napier did something really smart and played a TON of youth today on D trying to build depth.

So check everyone else out if "who UT has beaten" is the case. Bama's wins do not include a currently ranked team. #4 Michigan has not played anyone who has been ranked at any point during the season. UGA beat Oregon who is ranked 12 but no one else. Clemson is the exception with wins over Wake and NCSU.

I agree entirely.

We all know that pre-season polls reflect mostly last year's teams and their accomplishments. There may be a bit of tweaking here and there for what we saw in spring games, key roster changes, and what the coaches are saying about their new squads, but it's mostly based on previous years. Reputation, in other words.

And early season polls cary the momentum of the pre-season polls. And mid-season polls take the momentum of the early season. And so on.

UGa and Bama and Ohio State are #1, #2, and #3 because of reputation. Michigan is up there because of reputation. USCw is there because a very good coach moved there, and name brand (not even last year's accomplishments, but name brand).

We benefit from that, too. If we were Middle Tennessee State U, and won all the exact same games as we have, we wouldn't be ranked at all. Maybe #23 or so. But because we're Tennessee, and it's really starting to look like we may be heading back to being the championship program we were before, we get the benefit of our prior reputation. Name brand.

I'm okay with that. It actually is usually true. Ohio State probably is really really good, even if they haven't had to prove it yet. Even with days like Saturday for UGa, they probably are a very good team. It works out. Common sense rules.

My only problem in all of this, ALL of the complexity and imprecision of the ranking systems, is when a fellow Vol can't accept that our team is doing well. They won't accept good; they demand perfect. They can't see the beauty for the blemish. They can't put our weakness on pass defense into the context of a whole team, and see that, yes, you can in fact win a helluva lot of football games in spite of that imperfection. When everything else is so good, you can work around the bad bits in most situations.

Not all situations, no. We won't win a national title this year. But one year at a time. Titles are coming. This year is about climbing the ladder. Climbing it as far as we can, as fast as we can, so that next year we're poised to take the next set of steps.

I wish our self-hating fellow Vols fans could understand that.

Go Vols!

 

[Alto1]

We are what we are when we are until we ain’t.

Seriously, I can’t think of three teams ranked lower than us that should be ranked higher than us.

And besides, it’s not how you start it’s how you finish…….

 

[Brave Volunteer]

At this point in the season it really doesnt matter. We'll know who we are at the end of the season. Then and only then will we know if we're truly a top 10 team. At this point its all speculative anyway.

Personally I dont think the 2022 Vols are a top 10 team because defensively we have too many deficiencies. Do I think we are a top 20 team? Yes I do believe we are top 20 and I think the season will bare that out. Doesnt mean I'm not enjoying the love we're getting from the media now. However I think it'll be a different story after 12 games. Would love to be wrong though.

 

[vol4him]

Well OP, I scrolled through all these posts. Why, because I actually wanted to hear the answer. Well, in a roundabout way, I guess you got your answer. One post said maybe Ole Miss. so, we are a Top 10 team, even with a defense ranked in the hundreds

 

[xpsyclonex2002]

I would love to say that we are top 10 because our offense warrants it. But I can't, at this point, say that our defense warrants us being a top 10 team. We've played 2 teams with any level of quality and struggled on D against both of them. Pitt hung around until the last minute with a backup QB and we gave up over 400 total yards against them then capped that off with a nearly 600yard performance by the FL offense that has not looked great this year. We are top 15 for sure, but until our D shows up, especially our secondary, against a respectable opponent, I'm going to be the eternal pessimist.
AL, GA, OHST, MICH, CLEM are clearly the top 5. I would have to put OL Miss, USC, Penn ST. ahead of us. I'm not convinced that we are a better total team than KY until we beat them. Both of us are improved since last year and that was a game down to the wire. Same thing with AR. It's hard to think about teams like OK St and Utah. We play different competition and recruit different talent levels. On paper we should destroy them but they punch above their weight so who knows......that's what the bowl games are for.

 

[OHvol40]

Dont GAF what youre sick of. The OP asked a question and I answered it.

Actually, the OP asked very specific questions and you basically answered none of them. Some ppl just relish in the contrarian role.

 

[VOLywood]

It's pretty hilarious that the OP asked for commentary on teams ranked behind us and why they should be ranked ahead of us, but the only other teams mentioned in this thread so far are ones ranked ahead of us - OSU, Bama, UGA, Clemson, etc.

One poster did mention Ole Miss, which I agree may have a legit conversation about being ranked higher than UT.

Another good point made was that our defense would be better evaluated with statistics like third down conversion and fourth down conversion rates. I would add in there first downs allowed, because if teams are making first downs without needing third or fourth down then that also spells disaster for our defense.