New Xbox: Xbox Infinity

#251
#251
bleedorange0037 said:
I won't call someone greedy for trying to get a cut off of something they built though.
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I will.

They got their cut the first time it was sold.

Why do they deserve a cut when someone who owns the rights to it sells it?

People make a living in many trades where they go around finding deals on items and re-sell them to profit. It's beyond greedy if you think you deserve a 2nd cut from something you no longer actually own.

This sounds more like drug trade than free trade...

That's jmo.






bleedorange0037 said:
Since the used game market kind of cuts the developers off at the knees by giving every bit of the profits from a sale to a middleman rather than the actual game designers, I just don't have a problem with them charging a nominal fee that would be comparable to what they would have made had the person bought the game new.
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The game still has to become more obsolete and people have to be willing to sell the copy they just spent 60 dollars on. Most people don't got drop 60 dollars and sell the game tomorrow. So people are still forced to go buy it new for sometime. Even if you turned around and sold it used next month, you're not going to get some great deal on the game. Used games only cut into the sales after they've been out for some time.
It's always going to be a game of cat and mouse. One side will get on top for a while, and the other will be forced to adapt. Used game dealers have had a leg up over developers for a LOOOONG time, now with improvements in technology, developers are now able institute security measures to discourage people from buying secondhand and screwing them.
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I'm not saying they don't have the right to do it but I just don't agree with it.

There are people who will adapt and never give up gaming but I know people who didn't go right out and buy the PS3 or 360 because 600 dollars is friggin insane. These people used to own like 40 games on every console and now they have more like 10. They can't afford 60 dollars a game. Some people and families can't afford it at all. It's a rather expensive hobby for what results in sitting on your ass. Keep in mind it also go towards internet, fees to play online, ups your electricity bill. Sure, most people have internet, PS3 doesn't charge to play online and electricity that it consumes is probably miniscule. The point is, 60 dollars a game on top of other everything else it adds up.



I'll just never agree that someone deserves a cut twice when the second cut comes from the consumer. They're making consumers business partners is what they're doing. You see a creator sell the rights to a company and then come to agreement with the company they also want a certain percentage of the sales. Sorry but the consumer is not a company buying your rights where you get a percentage. You make that deal with the company when you sell the rights to your creation. If I buy the game as a consumer, I should be able to do whatever I want and the creator can ead... just sayin lol. Not trying to sound like a jerk so sorry if it came off that way. I just don't agree they can tell me what I can do with my possessions. I should be able to salvage whatever I can off selling my used items. I paid for it, it's mine.
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#252
#252
Speaking of gamers having to adapt to gaming...

I know where I'm headed if all of this continues happening.

For as much as a system already costs, I'll go build a computer specifically for gaming and the best part, you don't have to pay for games at all. People will rip games for you to download free.

I prefer having a system but if they want to nickle and dime you for every little thing, I'm willing to give the PC world a go. I know people who think consoles suck and will always play computer games. Maybe there's something to that...
 
#254
#254
TOP said:
The game still has to become more obsolete and people have to be willing to sell the copy they just spent 60 dollars on. Most people don't got drop 60 dollars and sell the game tomorrow. So people are still forced to go buy it new for sometime. Even if you turned around and sold it used next month, you're not going to get some great deal on the game. Used games only cut into the sales after they've been out for some time.
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Games that are several years old is not what I really have an issue with. A lot of times, games like that aren't even kept in stock new, and are more readily available on the secondhand market.

Where I take issue with GameStop is best illustrated in the last game I traded to them, and after this experience they can forever go **** themselves with their trades. Last fall I bought Halo 4 with the sole intention of playing through it and then probably getting rid of it because Black Ops 2 was coming out the following week, and that was going to occupy all my gaming time. I bought the game new, beat the campaign, and then on the following Tuesday took it to trade in when I went to pay off Blops 2. With the added 10% I got for trading towards another purchase, they gave me a whopping $17 in store credit. Meanwhile, they throw the game right back on the shelf and sell it for $55. That's what discourages people from buying nearly new games is that you can save an easy $5, get the full version of the game, and never let a dime get into the hands of the people who created the game. Every bit of it just goes to a middleman.

I don't know what the best solution is. Like I said, used games are great for people who are looking to go out and grab some games for $20. But the used game market really does screw the developers in the first few months of a game's life. Perhaps the best option might be some sort of compromise where for a period of time, say 6-12 months, titles will be locked to the console they were originally played, and after that they can be released onto the secondhand market.
 
#255
#255
Sith Vol said:
Games for these consoles staying at $60 I hope? Any word on that?
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I'd be surprised. The cost of games has consistently gone up by $10 with each passing generation since the days of PS1. I haven't seen any actual info about it, but my guess would be that games for XB ONE and PS4 will retail for $69.99.
 
#258
#258
rpvol said:
thing is, it hurts the consumer way more than it hurts gamestop. it takes rentals or just borrowing a game off the table if you don't want to pony up an extra $10 to try it out for a week or so online. it also hurts ea in a sense as it makes them look like greedy a$$bags to most people.
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And it keeps someone like me from buying an EA game. I'd never pay an online fee. Screw that crap.
 
#259
#259
kwebbvols2344 said:
There was an article a while back stating that it would probably be like $70. They said that is on par for the inflation.

This did not come from Microsoft or Sony. Just some tech guys.
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If you take inflation into account, SNES games were about 75 bucks. So, games are actually cheaper in this gen.
 
#260
#260
bleedorange0037 said:
Yes, it was added to keep companies like GameStop from cutting them off at the knees by doing nothing other than paying someone $20 for a used game and then turning around and selling it for $55. Why should developers not take steps to make sure they get paid for their work? If having the code forces more people to buy the game new, where EA gets a cut of the sale, then good for them IMO. GameStop had the upper hand on them in that regard for a lot of years, and just like any business, developers are going to adapt to try and regain the upper hand.
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They were already paid for their work, at the original sale.
 
#261
#261
TOP said:
I will.

They got their cut the first time it was sold.

Why do they deserve a cut when someone who owns the rights to it sells it?
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Sorry but that's incorrect. By law, when you purchase a game you are not purchasing the right to own the game itself. You are basically purchasing a license to PLAY the game. That is the truth and that is how it is defined by law. When you buy Assassin's Creed, you don't suddenly own the coding that the developers created that made that game. You own the license to play it.

P.S. I'm not saying I agree with that, I'm just saying that is how it is defined by law.
 
#264
#264
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#265
#265
VolsSportsFan said:
They were already paid for their work, at the original sale.
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They did, but my point is that by putting a used game on the shelf for $5 less than full new retail, places like GameStop are actually stealing sales from the developers. This is true as long as you assume the consumer was going to buy the game on way or another.

Like I suggested earlier, perhaps some sort of exclusivity arrangement (new copies only) for the first 6 months of a game's life, and afterward open season on used copies would be a decent win-win for all sides.
 
#266
#266
bleedorange0037 said:
They did, but my point is that by putting a used game on the shelf for $5 less than full new retail, places like GameStop are actually stealing sales from the developers. This is true as long as you assume the consumer was going to buy the game on way or another.

Like I suggested earlier, perhaps some sort of exclusivity arrangement (new copies only) for the first 6 months of a game's life, and afterward open season on used copies would be a decent win-win for all sides.
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What would have made more sense to me would have been that a mandatory percentage of proceeds from pre-owned game sales be paid to the developers/publishers of those games. To me that would have been the most fair thing to do for all sides. I'll bet if places like Gamestop would have been more willing to negotiate a deal like that, developers would have agreed to it.
 
#267
#267
Brave Volunteer said:
What would have made more sense to me would have been that a mandatory percentage of proceeds from pre-owned game sales be paid to the developers/publishers of those games. To me that would have been the most fair thing to do for all sides.
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I would be perfectly fine with that as well. I just feel that at least within a certain time frame after release of a game, having nearly new games at a $5 discount sitting side by side with full priced games really cuts into the devs profits. I know a lot of people don't handle it this way, but I'll always buy the new copy. I don't mind spending the extra $5 to make sure the appropriate cut goes to the people who created the game as opposed to no money going to them and $35-$40 of pure profit going into the hands of a middleman.
 
#268
#268
bleedorange0037 said:
I would be perfectly fine with that as well. I just feel that at least within a certain time frame after release of a game, having nearly new games at a $5 discount sitting side by side with full priced games really cuts into the devs profits. I know a lot of people don't handle it this way, but I'll always buy the new copy. I don't mind spending the extra $5 to make sure the appropriate cut goes to the people who created the game as opposed to no money going to them and $35-$40 of pure profit going into the hands of a middleman.
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Yeah I don't get the person who isn't willing to spend an extra 5.00 on a new unopened game as opposed to buying it used just to save 5.00 and honestly, I think MOST reasonable, logical thinking consumers feel the same way. The only way I would ever buy a used game like that is if A.) It's out of print or B.) It's the only one the store has in stock.

The point I was trying to make with my suggestion was, by negotiating a compromise between the retailer and the developer you leave the consumer completely out of it and they don't have to suffer as a result. However this "draconian" method that MS (and maybe Sony) has come up with is NOT consumer friendly at all!
 
#269
#269
bleedorange0037 said:
They did, but my point is that by putting a used game on the shelf for $5 less than full new retail, places like GameStop are actually stealing sales from the developers. This is true as long as you assume the consumer was going to buy the game on way or another.

Like I suggested earlier, perhaps some sort of exclusivity arrangement (new copies only) for the first 6 months of a game's life, and afterward open season on used copies would be a decent win-win for all sides.
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I imagine this will be the type of compromise that is made.
 
#270
#270
Brave Volunteer said:
Yeah I don't get the person who isn't willing to spend an extra 5.00 on a new unopened game as opposed to buying it used just to save 5.00 and honestly, I think MOST reasonable, logical thinking consumers feel the same way. The only way I would ever buy a used game like that is if A.) It's out of print or B.) It's the only one the store has in stock.

The point I was trying to make with my suggestion was, by negotiating a compromise between the retailer and the developer you leave the consumer completely out of it and they don't have to suffer as a result. However this "draconian" method that MS (and maybe Sony) has come up with is NOT consumer friendly at all!
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If there's only a 5 dollar difference I'll buy the new one just so I know I'm getting a game that should be problem free since it hasn't been owned already.

But 15-20 bucks or more? I'll buy a used one.
 
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#271
#271
TheDeeble said:
If there's only a 5 dollar difference I'll buy the new one just so I know I'm getting a game that should be problem free since it hasn't been owned already.

But 15-20 bucks or more? I'll buy a used one.
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99% of the time I buy new. Like I said before, the only times I buy used is if it's a game no longer in print or if the store is out of stock. However I do trade games in from time to time.
 
#272
#272
TheDeeble said:
If there's only a 5 dollar difference I'll buy the new one just so I know I'm getting a game that should be problem free since it hasn't been owned already.

But 15-20 bucks or more? I'll buy a used one.
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nobody likes sloppy seconds
 
#273
#273
Brave Volunteer said:
99% of the time I buy new. Like I said before, the only times I buy used is if it's a game no longer in print or if the store is out of stock. However I do trade games in from time to time.
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I'll happily trade in games. Especially if I'm disappointed in them.

Example, Earlier this year I bought Spec Ops: The Line. At the end of 2012 I saw a few reviews for best stories of 2012 and a couple of websites gave it high marks. I was walking through Best Buy one day and it was new, but like only 35 bucks I think. So I figured why not.

Start playing, and I never get to this awesome story. They failed to mention the bugs in the game. There was one point where I'm in a building with the roof collapsed surrounded by bad guys I have to kill. Some are on the roof, shooting from behind surfaces I cannot hit them at. I can see the tracers hitting me, but when I follow them, all I can see is the spec of a head and it's running around. When I put my sights on him, there is awful hit detection. Like 1 bullet out of 50 is actually hitting it's marks. After 5 minutes of shooting I finally kill the guy. But nothing happens. No rooms open up, nothing becomes available. I run around the giant room 2-3 minutes thinking there's something I have to do. Then another guy appears on the roof and I have to do it all again. This happened 5 times.

I haven't bought a game with bugs like that in forever.

Gamers deserve an out if someone makes a crappy product.
 
#274
#274
bleedorange0037 said:
They did, but my point is that by putting a used game on the shelf for $5 less than full new retail, places like GameStop are actually stealing sales from the developers.
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Just curious, but do you feel the same way with used cars? When I buy a used car from a used car lot or a private owner, are they stealing a sale from Chevy, Nissan, etc., etc. ?
 
#275
#275
BearCat204 said:
Just curious, but do you feel the same way with used cars? When I buy a used car from a used car lot or a private owner, are they stealing a sale from Chevy, Nissan, etc., etc. ?
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This. I never understood why people think videogames are some special snowflake that shouldn't be treated like most other physical goods.
 
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