NCAA trying to come down on NIL and collectives

[Voltopia]

The NCAA could set up some rules along this line that would probably pass legal muster, like I said there is considerable precedent, and say these are our rules, and if you don't follow them, you're ineligible, it doesn't mean you can't make money, but if you don't want to be restricted to fair market value and abide by these rules regarding improper incentives, then you can go play somewhere else. Who knows, a real minor league could pop up? The conferences could do the same thing also.

I mean, the NCAA already had rules, and the media and courts obliterated those rules. The people who chose to play at college could have gone and played somewhere else before any of this NIL business. No one forced them to play college football. They chose to do so. If those players didn't want to follow the rules to be eligible for college athletics, they could have competed elsewhere, or started their own league, or done practically anything they wanted.

Or rather, if the original restrictions for college eligibility were so unacceptable to the people who tore the system apart, what makes allowing the NCAA to limit their incentives or pay more palatable? If people genuinely believed it's all fair in love and football, shouldn't they be absolutely on the side of players getting everything they can? And moreover, if it's suddenly acceptable for the NCAA to establish rules for what players can receive, why couldn't the NCAA used the restrictions on eligibility that have promoted the health sport without incident for over a hundred years?

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

I mean, the NCAA already had rules, and the media and courts obliterated those rules. The people who chose to play at college could have gone and played somewhere else before any of this NIL business. No one forced them to play college football. They chose to do so. If those players didn't want to follow the rules to be eligible for college athletics, they could have competed elsewhere, or started their own league, or done practically anything they wanted.

Or rather, if the original restrictions for college eligibility were so unacceptable to the people who tore the system apart, what makes allowing the NCAA to limit their incentives or pay more palatable? If people genuinely believed it's all fair in love and football, shouldn't they be absolutely on the side of players getting everything they can? And moreover, if it's suddenly acceptable for the NCAA to establish rules for what players can receive, why couldn't the NCAA used the restrictions on eligibility that have promoted the health sport without incident for over a hundred years?

They had rules that the players COULD NOT be paid. Everyone agrees that is out the window. However some are jumping to the conclusion that there can be no reasonable restriction/regulation. The Supreme Court opinion certainly didn't say that.

And the instant the tide turns against us on any of this I suspect some of you guys will hastily discard your support for the devil may care approach, lol.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

They had rules that the players COULD NOT be paid. Everyone agrees that is out the window. However some are jumping to the conclusion that there can be no reasonable restriction/regulation. The Supreme Court opinion certainly didn't say that.

And the instant the tide turns against us on any of this I suspect some of you guys will hastily discard your support for the devil may care approach, lol.

How are you going to restrict someone from being paid for their name, image and likeness. The market determines their worth.
If EA said I want to pay you $1m to use your name and likeness in our new video game, who is the NCAA to tell a player he's not worth that.
At this point the NCAA should work on the transfer portal and how a player is eligible to transfer.
The NCAA and schools pushing anything else as far as NIL is going to wind up getting both sued and school having to declare them employees, especially since they're making big money of those players, then they're really going to have to pay out or get out of sports, at least when it comes to Football, Basketball and maybe baseball. I'm pretty sure the other sport don't generate the money those 3 do so if they had to pay them, the cost would probably be manageable.
The we want to keep it amateur left the building years ago

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Dupe

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

How are you going to restrict someone from being paid for their name, image and likeness. The market determines their worth.
If EA said I want to pay you $1m to use your name and likeness in our new video game, who is the NCAA to tell a player he's not worth that.
At this point the NCAA should work on the transfer portal and how a player is eligible to transfer.
The NCAA and schools pushing anything else as far as NIL is going to wind up getting both sued and school having to declare them employees, especially since they're making big money of those players, then they're really going to have to pay out or get out of sports, at least when it comes to Football, Basketball and maybe baseball. I'm pretty sure the other sport don't generate the money those 3 do so if they had to pay them, the cost would probably be manageable.
The we want to keep it amateur left the building years ago

 

[TheVolsFrog]

View attachment 453835View attachment 453836

Still think they'll have issues. When it comes to top players in the country.Paying a punter $1m yeah you could probably make an argument that no way he generates that much interest where as Nico who has the swag and personality could easily move Nike apparel or appear in Nike ads as one of their models. Arch will make money on his name alone. You know he'll be in commercials with his uncles.
Mix in social media and followers now and if EA ever brings back their college video games. Players are going to want to be paid

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Still think they'll have issues. When it comes to top players in the country.Paying a punter $1m yeah you could probably make an argument that no way he generates that much interest where as Nico who has the swag and personality could easily move Nike apparel or appear in Nike ads as one of their models. Arch will make money on his name alone. You know he'll be in commercials with his uncles.
Mix in social media and followers now and if EA ever brings back their college video games. Players are going to want to be paid

Agree that the more an NIL payment looks like a real arms length transaction by someone actually interested in the value of a players' NIL instead of steering him/her to play at a certain school, the less likely it is to be a red flag. They aren't going to have the ability to regulate/stop those types of payments, they won't even try, they'll be trying to stop the sham agreements which make no financial sense that are obviously payments to attend/play for a certain school, i.e, the blatant stuff. They may ultimately have more success with that in the long run than people think. Players will end up being employees of the school getting direct payments because with that will come even more control and less volatility.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Agree that the more an NIL payment looks like a real arms length transaction by someone actually interested in the value of a players' NIL instead of steering him/her to play at a certain school, the less likely it is to be a red flag. They aren't going to have the ability to regulate/stop those types of payments, they won't even try, they'll be trying to stop the sham agreements which make no financial sense that are obviously payments to attend/play for a certain school, i.e, the blatant stuff. They may ultimately have more success with that in the long run than people think. Players will end up being employees of the school getting direct payments because with that will come even more control and less volatility.

Schools don't want them to be employees though

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Schools don't want them to be employees though

Eventually that's where it will go imo because that's the only way there can be real structure. While I think some are underestimating the NCAA and/or the conferences' ability to regulate blatant pay for play through sham "NIL" agreements, in the end everyone hates uncertainty and there will still be too much until they are employees.

 

[kcvols1]

Who gets to say what the FMV of a kid is? If the business owner in Miami feels those kids are worth that much to market his business that is between him and the athlete.

I’m reasonably certain John Ruiz doesn’t actually feel that way. He’s shelling out for the U because he’s OK with the calculated risk that nobody will ever ask to see his homework.

The FMV of an NIL deal would boil down to what ROI you could calculate in good faith on the ad deal. Companies make these calculations all the time, given the gigantic breadth and scope of ad revenue and budgets in our economy.

Hell, between the Biz Analytics folks at Haslam and the Media Buying folks at Trombas we should be able to help kids figure this crap out as an institution. Pretty sure they could come up with a formula based on athletic performance, SM followers across all platforms, and personality test metrics to see who would be most effective at moving product.

Once you have that metric, you can see deals that would be proportionally out of whack, and made for payola instead of NIL.

Still remains to be seen whether any entity with actual enforcement authority will give any semblance of a dang.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

How are you going to restrict someone from being paid for their name, image and likeness. The market determines their worth.
If EA said I want to pay you $1m to use your name and likeness in our new video game, who is the NCAA to tell a player he's not worth that.
At this point the NCAA should work on the transfer portal and how a player is eligible to transfer.
The NCAA and schools pushing anything else as far as NIL is going to wind up getting both sued and school having to declare them employees, especially since they're making big money of those players, then they're really going to have to pay out or get out of sports, at least when it comes to Football, Basketball and maybe baseball. I'm pretty sure the other sport don't generate the money those 3 do so if they had to pay them, the cost would probably be manageable.
The we want to keep it amateur left the building years ago

100% agreed! A good start would be no longer allowing these kids to up and quit on their teams mid season without consequence. We do not need a system that fosters this "take my ball and go home" practice! In fact I am so staunchly opposed to this, I would be in favor of a 2 year ineligibility rule for any player who tries to pull this! The allowance of this practice sets a terrible example for our youth that says "hey when the going gets tough, you can get going." I dont think college sports needs to be fostering this kind of practice. There needs to be a concise, specific window of time that players can take advantage of the portal and no other time!

Another thing I wish the NCAA could address...and I'm not even sure how or even if anything can be done but this recent practice of players laying out of bowl games for fear of injury, that namby pamby bull$hit needs to stop! You made a commitment to represent your team and give your all to make them as successful as they can be! Laying out of the final game of the year is a cowardace move and IMO speaks volumes to your character! And again, it also sends a terrible message to the youth of this country that I don't think the NCAA should condone, which is money and self interest should trump all. (And yes I do realize the irony in that statement).

And finally, the rules need to change with regards to staff turnover in college football. Imo active coaches should not be allowed to be interviewed or even contacted for new positions until after the season is over for the team he is currently with. Its incredibly unfair to the team he is currently with if that coach just takes off right before a bowl game or playoff game to go join a new staff. It creates an unwanted staff disruption at a very important point in the season. Not to mention a terrible distraction for the team that might result in an unfair advantage to their opponent. There's no reason why these hires cannot wait until after your season is done!

 

[GrayWaterCanine]

I’m reasonably certain John Ruiz doesn’t actually feel that way. He’s shelling out for the U because he’s OK with the calculated risk that nobody will ever ask to see his homework.

The FMV of an NIL deal would boil down to what ROI you could calculate in good faith on the ad deal. Companies make these calculations all the time, given the gigantic breadth and scope of ad revenue and budgets in our economy.

Hell, between the Biz Analytics folks at Haslam and the Media Buying folks at Trombas we should be able to help kids figure this crap out as an institution. Pretty sure they could come up with a formula based on athletic performance, SM followers across all platforms, and personality test metrics to see who would be most effective at moving product.

Once you have that metric, you can see deals that would be proportionally out of whack, and made for payola instead of NIL.

Still remains to be seen whether any entity with actual enforcement authority will give any semblance of a dang.

Why would anyone speak to the NCAA about their private business deals?

 

[kcvols1]

Why would anyone speak to the NCAA about their private business deals?

Great question. I imagine pulling an athlete’s eligibility in exchange for their non cooperation might be an effective lever.

I’m guessing, of course. We’re not even sure whether the NCAA will be the effective governing body going forward. They haven’t been, but they well may be once the dust settles.

A LOT hinges on Emmert’s replacement.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

100% agreed! A good start would be no longer allowing these kids to up and quit on their teams mid season without consequence. We do not need a system that fosters this "take my ball and go home" practice! In fact I am so staunchly opposed to this, I would be in favor of a 2 year ineligibility rule for any player who tries to pull this! The allowance of this practice sets a terrible example for our youth that says "hey when the going gets tough, you can get going." I dont think college sports needs to be fostering this kind of practice. There needs to be a concise, specific window of time that players can take advantage of the portal and no other time!

Another thing I wish the NCAA could address...and I'm not even sure how or even if anything can be done but this recent practice of players laying out of bowl games for fear of injury, that namby pamby bull$hit needs to stop! You made a commitment to represent your team and give your all to make them as successful as they can be! Laying out of the final game of the year is a cowardace move and IMO speaks volumes to your character! And again, it also sends a terrible message to the youth of this country that I don't think the NCAA should condone, which is money and self interest should trump all. (And yes I do realize the irony in that statement).

And finally, the rules need to change with regards to staff turnover in college football. Imo active coaches should not be allowed to be interviewed or even contacted for new positions until after the season is over for the team he is currently with. Its incredibly unfair to the team he is currently with if that coach just takes off right before a bowl game or playoff game to go join a new staff. It creates an unwanted staff disruption at a very important point in the season. Not to mention a terrible distraction for the team that might result in an unfair advantage to their opponent. There's no reason why these hires cannot wait until after your season is done!

As far as bowl games...if a kid is for sure going draft and 1st round. I can't really blame him. Bowl games are pretty much a money grab for the schools. I'd be more upset with a guy sitting out of the Championship playoff though.

Agreed you shouldn't be able to talk to another school coach until the end of the season.
Either way I think the writing is on the wall as far as college sports, at least the top schools. They'll be their own league that's associated with a school that they pay licensing fee's to while also allowing players to get an education there.

 

[onthehill71]

100% agreed! A good start would be no longer allowing these kids to up and quit on their teams mid season without consequence. We do not need a system that fosters this "take my ball and go home" practice! In fact I am so staunchly opposed to this, I would be in favor of a 2 year ineligibility rule for any player who tries to pull this! The allowance of this practice sets a terrible example for our youth that says "hey when the going gets tough, you can get going." I dont think college sports needs to be fostering this kind of practice. There needs to be a concise, specific window of time that players can take advantage of the portal and no other time!

Another thing I wish the NCAA could address...and I'm not even sure how or even if anything can be done but this recent practice of players laying out of bowl games for fear of injury, that namby pamby bull$hit needs to stop! You made a commitment to represent your team and give your all to make them as successful as they can be! Laying out of the final game of the year is a cowardace move and IMO speaks volumes to your character! And again, it also sends a terrible message to the youth of this country that I don't think the NCAA should condone, which is money and self interest should trump all. (And yes I do realize the irony in that statement).

And finally, the rules need to change with regards to staff turnover in college football. Imo active coaches should not be allowed to be interviewed or even contacted for new positions until after the season is over for the team he is currently with. Its incredibly unfair to the team he is currently with if that coach just takes off right before a bowl game or playoff game to go join a new staff. It creates an unwanted staff disruption at a very important point in the season. Not to mention a terrible distraction for the team that might result in an unfair advantage to their opponent. There's no reason why these hires cannot wait until after your season is done!

Cutcliffe left UT before the National Champ game to start his new job at Ole Miss leaving Randy Sanders to handle the OC duties. No one ever begrudged this at all.

Sanctimonious rant aside, where did you ever think fair had to do with anything in todays world? Fair is what you can negotiate based on leverage.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Cutcliffe left UT before the National Champ game to start his new job at Ole Miss leaving Randy Sanders to handle the OC duties. No one ever begrudged this at all.

Sanctimonious rant aside, where did you ever think fair had to do with anything in todays world? Fair is what you can negotiate based on leverage.

You only say that now because we won. If we had lost, I guarantee you there would be some REAL sour grapes towards Coach Cutcliffe to this day!

Also, I'm so sick of that whole "The world is not fair" excuse! Yes, we ALL know the world is not always fair. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to invoke fairness where it can be practiced! By your logic, there shouldn't be any restrictions of any kind enforced in college athletics. You must hate Title 9 then since, you know, the world's not fair, right?

 

[Sudden Impact]

100% agreed!

And finally, the rules need to change with regards to staff turnover in college football. Imo active coaches should not be allowed to be interviewed or even contacted for new positions until after the season is over for the team he is currently with. Its incredibly unfair to the team he is currently with if that coach just takes off right before a bowl game or playoff game to go join a new staff. It creates an unwanted staff disruption at a very important point in the season. Not to mention a terrible distraction for the team that might result in an unfair advantage to their opponent. There's no reason why these hires cannot wait until after your season is done!

A lot of Changes to be made if this happens.....
Recruiting being the major issue and hurdle. How do you deal with that issue?
If NIL is in play, then this will cause even more issues.

Bottom Line: No....

A Player who signed with a school in Dec would have have to wait until the second week in Jan before he could access the coaching staff changes.

Recruiting Nightmare, NIL Nightmare, and more.

Distractions are part of the process, unfortunately. If you have a team that season ends in First Week of December going for a January 1 coach are you stating no contact? Interview processes take 2 to 3 weeks and by February Signing Day you would be pushed on player commits without a HC in place.

 

[GrayWaterCanine]

Great question. I imagine pulling an athlete’s eligibility in exchange for their non cooperation might be an effective lever.

I’m guessing, of course. We’re not even sure whether the NCAA will be the effective governing body going forward. They haven’t been, but they well may be once the dust settles.

A LOT hinges on Emmert’s replacement.

The NCAA has no leverage in this situation.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Why would anyone speak to the NCAA about their private business deals?

My first GUESS is that defining your total NIL income might be on a PROFESSIONAL SERVICES waiver while still maintaining a more amateur status as the standard as before the courts jumped in. Across all divisions and all sports those getting NIL money will still be a minority. They will have to provide a path for NIL but will be able to define required methods of reporting.

One of my favorite workplace quotes is “If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it.” My overstated theory is still they will establish caps for NIL money just like they do for counters and PWO’s. Everybody has 85 as a limit and X NIL dollars as a limit. The bigger the single NIL deals are they actually limit the number of deals you have. Therefore no attempt to restrict size of deals.

Provide an equitable path and you are not at odds with the laws AS I READ THROUGH THE LEGAL MIND GAMES, subject to the truth. My Law and Order centric education is not all that comprehensive.

 

[kcvols1]

The NCAA has no leverage in this situation.

If only saying that definitively made it so!

I’d love that.

 

[RiseToTheTop]

The NCAA has no leverage in this situation.

zero

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

 

[kcvols1]

 

[wmcovol]

Schools don't want them to be employees though

Schools CANT afford them to be employees. The total cost, salaries, govt regulated benefits alone would knock a hole in most AD budgets. Govt EEs, which these would be, receive excellent healthcare & retirement benefits. While no player would ever earn a pension most likely, the funding of that liability is required.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Correct me if I am wrong, but NIL deals aren’t public knowledge right? I mean we suspect Nico has a big NIL deal but we don’t know for sure because nobody has ever seen it.