NBA Playoffs Thread

#1,526
#1,526
apevol said:
You also get to stand around on the perimeter and spend less time with dudes leaning on you all ****ing game.
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So my point was I was trying to explain why guys play fewer minutes now. What is your point?
 
#1,530
#1,530
n_huffhines said:
So my point was I was trying to explain why guys play fewer minutes now. What is your point?
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My point is, spacing has not caused the drop in minutes, and is not a more exhausting attribute of basketball.

Its not like all 5 guys are constantly trying to close out on the 3 point line.

Defenses rarely collapses when a ball handler gets into the paint like they used to, so you don't have guys scrambling to get back in position to contest 3s on every play. There are still few enough truly dead-eye shooters that teams just totally yak out every time there's a drive and kick, because when there IS one thats lethal, there's generally a defender still half comitted to the shooter.

And its not like youve got more than a thimble full of teams that spam screens as effectively as the warriors.

I just don't think the huge increase in spacing leads to a more exhausting style of play than having to spend an entire game wearing all your big men out trying to lean on some unstoppable behemoth like Shaq. Or, if it is, its only marginal.

That doesn't even take into account the physical toll rebounding would take when you had a ton of dudes shooting 13 foot shots, with the ball barely bouncing off the rim, and 5 or6 players climbing all over each other trying to claim the ball.
 
#1,532
#1,532
n_huffhines said:
You gotta cover more ground today because of the spacing. It helps explain how Shaq could play more minutes than Lebron.
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I don't think you give the previous generations their due. Young Shaq was super athletic. That is why he could play so many minutes. He got out of shape with the Lakers and that is one reason him and Kobe clashed.
 
#1,533
#1,533
zjcvols said:
Oh my God this view
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the warriors were even more mind****ed than the Cavs.

They were actually chasing JR's dumb ass around while James was standing there wide ****ing open.

Just a total waste of an offensive rebound that youd only see like once out of every 20 or so chances.
 
#1,534
#1,534
k-town_king said:
I don't think you give the previous generations their due. Young Shaq was super athletic. That is why he could play so many minutes. He got out of shape with the Lakers and that is one reason him and Kobe clashed.
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Agree. I think there's a bit more going on here, though.
 
#1,535
#1,535
k-town_king said:
I don't think you give the previous generations their due. Young Shaq was super athletic. That is why he could play so many minutes. He got out of shape with the Lakers and that is one reason him and Kobe clashed.
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Lakers Shaq played 3100 minutes in 2000. He missed games when he got older, but he was still playing 36-40 mpg until he went to Miami.

The old days are fine. There is a natural progression. The $, talent pool, technology, sports medicine, expetience, nutrition, S & C, etc. all ensure the average level of play raises. The outlier players from the past could be every bit as good today (and some better), but the average player from the 90's probably struggles to make the league today.
 
#1,536
#1,536
k-town_king said:
I don't think you give the previous generations their due. Young Shaq was super athletic. That is why he could play so many minutes. He got out of shape with the Lakers and that is one reason him and Kobe clashed.
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And Shaq and Kobe clashed because Shaq was #1 and Kobe was #2. Shaq won all 3 Finals MVP's and everybody knew Kobe was the second best player on the team. That was the root of the problem. Nobody gives a **** if Shaq is being lazy in December. Shaq was good against the Pistons. Kobe was abominable. Who cares what shape Shaq is in when those are the results?
 
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#1,538
#1,538
n_huffhines said:
And Shaq and Kobe clashed because Shaq was #1 and Kobe was #2. Shaq won all 3 Finals MVP's and everybody knew Kobe was the second best player on the team. That was the root of the problem. Nobody gives a **** if Shaq is being lazy in December. Shaq was good against the Pistons. Kobe was abominable. Who cares what shape Shaq is in when those are the results?
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Lakers Shaq was undeniably lazy and undisciplined. Yeah, its cool how he'd report to camp overweight and use the regular season as his way of working the fat off and being in shape for the postseason.

But he cut years off his prime by putting all that extra weight on his feet, and everyone else on the roster had to pick up his slack when he didnt feel like playing defense or fighting for rebounds.

Shaq shouldve been a monster in terms of career rebounding stats and as a rim protector.
 
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#1,540
#1,540
apevol said:
Lakers Shaq was undeniably lazy and undisciplined. Yeah, its cool how he'd report to camp overweight and use the regular season as his way of working the fat off and being in shape for the postseason.

But he cut years off his prime by putting all that extra weight on his feet, and everyone else on the roster had to pick up his slack when he didnt feel like playing defense or fighting for rebounds.

Shaq shouldve been a monster in terms of career rebounding stats and as a rim protector.
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Him and Chuck got into it this year over that, Shaq admitted to not caring about the offseason and coming in out of shape.
 
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#1,542
#1,542
apevol said:
Chuck is always good for being totally hypocritical and having a total lack of self awareness...
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He never said he was in the best shape. I think it was after Shaq and Kobe had that sit down interview with each other and Kobe said that was one of the things he didn't like about Shaq. Chuck just said imagine how many titles they could have one together if he was as dedicated to it as Kobe.
 
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#1,544
#1,544
apevol said:
Lakers Shaq was undeniably lazy and undisciplined. Yeah, its cool how he'd report to camp overweight and use the regular season as his way of working the fat off and being in shape for the postseason.

But he cut years off his prime by putting all that extra weight on his feet, and everyone else on the roster had to pick up his slack when he didnt feel like playing defense or fighting for rebounds.

Shaq shouldve been a monster in terms of career rebounding stats and as a rim protector.
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I think he had a longer prime than you could reasonably expect, TBH. Most NBA players start to slow down at 28 and he was 360 lbs doing 27 and 11 at the age of 30. Yao Ming was done at 30. The track record for the giants isn't that great. Being lazy may have been a good thing for his longevity, but you could be right and maybe he would have had a longer prime. Who knows.
 
#1,545
#1,545
zjcvols said:
Listening to an interview with Gary Payton and holy **** was the guy durable. Take away the lockout year and his last year (16 years) Payton played 77 games every year! Played at least 80 games 13 times! And averaged 36 MPG.
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Finally, someone mentions the real GOAT
 
#1,549
#1,549
apevol said:
Chuck is always good for being totally hypocritical and having a total lack of self awareness...
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Speaking of Chuck, what about him in today's NBA? I think with reps he could be a 35% 3 point shooter and then what the **** would the other team do about him? The only real problem with Chuck was that he struggled to guard the other team's 6' 11" back-to-the-basket PF.

He'd be PJ Tucker on D and off the ball. He's the 2nd best rebounder of the modern era and a nearly unstoppable force off the dribble. He would crush it today.
 
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