NBA Playoffs Thread

#551
#551
LittleCat said:
I mean it's hilarious to watch LeBron go up, take a small hit, and then lay on the ground for over a minute. Then all of a sudden he's 100% fine and wanting to the refs about how it should have been reviewed for technical. Just get up and play basketball. No need for all the silly acting and pretending like you're hurt.
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But all this being said...I still respect and admire the hell out of Lebron. His dominance right now offensively is unlike I've ever seen.
 
#553
#553
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, but it's actually what some people are arguing today.
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I guess its true, but thats because his team's defense allowed him to coast through most series.

The thing I get hung up on, is that Lebron faces far more man coverage than Jordan ever did, and he can't capitalize on it as much as Mike would've.

I know hes got more shooters around him, and its the correct choice to feed them, but when theyre not on, he doesn't go completely crazy as much as he's capable of.
 
#554
#554
apevol said:
I guess its true, but thats because his team's defense allowed him to coast through most series.

The thing I get hung up on, is that Lebron faces far more man coverage than Jordan ever did, and he can't capitalize on it as much as Mike would've.

I know hes got more shooters around him, and its the correct choice to feed them, but when theyre not on, he doesn't go completely crazy as much as he's capable of.
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Yeah the game is more spread out now and no hand checking, but wing defenders are so much better today.
 
#555
#555
LittleCat said:
I think it just stands out to people, including me, because of who LeBron is. He's so strong, so big, and can be so overpowering at times, it is silly to see him flopping around and flying whenever somebody hits him. I totally understand that flopping is part of the game and it's not exclusively LeBron, but that doesn't mean you excused something like that happening. LeBron will get the attention because of course he's one of the most famous players all time.
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I agree, it is ridiculous, but players just as big and strong as LeBron flop today and well. Look at Blake Griffin for example. Like I said, blame the league, because when players are tough, they are treated poorly by the refs. When they flop around and act like they've been shot, they are rewarded. I hate it, but it's what you have to do to succeed in the league. Look at James Harden and how he flopsx. He leads the league in FT's every year because of it.
 
#556
#556
KoachKrab127 said:
I agree, it is ridiculous, but players just as big and strong as LeBron flop today and well. Look at Blake Griffin for example. Like I said, blame the league, because when players are tough, they are treated poorly by the refs. When they flop around and act like they've been shot, they are rewarded. I hate it, but it's what you have to do to succeed in the league. Look at James Harden and how he flopsx. He leads the league in FT's every year because of it.
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Flopping drives me crazy, no matter who does it, but I 100% blame the league and the officiating, not the players.

You will NEVER draw a charge unless you hit the deck. That makes no sense. A charge is a charge, whether you fall to the ground or not.

In game 2 Ingles was running back on D and Harden saw him, jumped out in front of him to create contact literally 80' from the basket and he drew a foul and got FT's. Why wouldn't you do that **** if the refs are going to give it to you? It's so bad, but it's all on the ref for not using common sense and just going with letter of the law. You don't have to blow the whistle, but they do, so we fans have to deal with this ****.
 
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#560
#560
volbeast33 said:
I looked up all the data and the players average height and weight were very similar during the 90’s.... I can’t imagine players being much faster either.
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We posted the data here a few months ago: players on average are bigger and you have to consider big centers are kinda extinct, so they skew the 90's data.
 
#561
#561
n_huffhines said:
We posted the data here a few months ago: players on average are bigger and you have to consider big centers are kinda extinct, so they skew the 90's data.
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I would like to see it bc the only ones I have seen has average height and weight of wings being .2-3 inches and less than 5 pounds.... I can’t see that causing much of a difference
 
#562
#562
volbeast33 said:
I would like to see it bc the only ones I have seen has average height and weight of wings being .2-3 inches and less than 5 pounds.... I can’t see that causing much of a difference
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What do you got that says wings are less than 5 lbs bigger? I'd be shocked if the difference is that small. I think it's possible that 2's got shorter as we traded out size for shooting skill, but when you look at the outliers at the 3, it just doesn't seem possible that it would only be 5 lbs. Larry Bird was a big 3 and he was 220 lbs. Grant Hill was 225 lbs. Glen Rice 215 lbs. Rick Fox was 230. Pippen was 210 lbs. Jamal Mashburn was 240 lbs. So that's the biggest notable SF (unless you count Larry Johnson). Now consider that Jimmy Butler is 236 lbs and he's more of a 2. Lance Stephenson is 230 lbs and same. Lebron was 260 at one point. PJ Tucker is 245 lbs. Paul George is basically Bird's size. These dudes today are beasts.
 

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#563
#563
n_huffhines said:
What do you got that says wings are less than 5 lbs bigger? I'd be shocked if the difference is that small. I think it's possible that 2's got shorter as we traded out size for shooting skill, but when you look at the outliers at the 3, it just doesn't seem possible that it would only be 5 lbs. Larry Bird was a big 3 and he was 220 lbs. Grant Hill was 225 lbs. Glen Rice 215 lbs. Rick Fox was 230. Pippen was 210 lbs. Jamal Mashburn was 240 lbs. So that's the biggest notable SF (unless you count Larry Johnson). Now consider that Jimmy Butler is 236 lbs and he's more of a 2. Lance Stephenson is 230 lbs and same. Lebron was 260 at one point. PJ Tucker is 245 lbs. Paul George is basically Bird's size. These dudes today are beasts.
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Just different sites I googled.... it’s really hard for me to tell to make a decent argument.... you look on nba.com and jimmy butler is listed as 6’8 236 but just the random google search and Butler is listed as 6’8 220 pounds..... heights and weights are all over the place..... take away Lebron and guys don’t seem much bigger or fast than the mid 90’s to me.
 
#564
#564
volbeast33 said:
Just different sites I googled.... it’s really hard for me to tell to make a decent argument.... you look on nba.com and jimmy butler is listed as 6’8 236 but just the random google search and Butler is listed as 6’8 220 pounds..... heights and weights are all over the place..... take away Lebron and guys don’t seem much bigger or fast than the mid 90’s to me.
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So no links? I'm genuinely interested.
 
#565
#565
KoachKrab127 said:
I agree with almost everything you said. I wonder how many NBA players in Jordan's era would be considered "sensitive, petulant, overgrown children" in the social media era, where athletes are constantly scrutinized, even over something as petty as who they follow on Twitter.
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It's entirely possible, in fact probable, that Jordan would be hated if he played today. Jordan gambled in Atlantic City the night before a playoff game. That absolutely ends up on the internet if he did it today, there'd be Johnny Manziel comparisons, etc.
 
#566
#566
05_never_again said:
It's entirely possible, in fact probable, that Jordan would be hated if he played today. Jordan gambled in Atlantic City the night before a playoff game. That absolutely ends up on the internet if he did it today, there'd be Johnny Manziel comparisons, etc.
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I agree with your general point, but today Jordan just wouldn't go to Atlantic City. He'd play cards all night at home.

One benefit that Jordan has is he spent very little time in anybody's shadow. The NBA just wasn't very popular when he came about. So yeah, with the long time fans people would be saying Russell, Magic, and Bird, but a huge portion of the fans were new fans and Jordan was the guy.

Lebron has spent his entire career in Jordan's shadow, despite doing everything you could possibly do to get out of that shadow. Lebron hasn't cracked under that pressure. He got better under that pressure.
 
#567
#567
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#568
#568
It's a concept high-energy athletes such as boxers and swimmers have used for years: looking for moments in competition in which they can ease their load and allow for little scraps of rest they hope will add up.

Here's the data that illustrates it. No one would ever call James slow, but he is when he wants to be. During the regular season, James' average speed during games was 3.85 mph, according to Second Spectrum tracking data.

Of all players who averaged at least 20 minutes a game, that ranked in the bottom 10 in speed. That's correct: James moved slower than just about any rotation player in the league. And since the playoffs started, James has gotten even slower. His average has slipped to 3.69 mph.

It manifests itself in many ways. For example, during free throws, James will often walk to the other end of the floor. It saves him having to run when possession changes. He also at times will take himself out of an offensive play and stand on the wing, knowing he needs a breather.
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LeBron James plays and rests to keep Cleveland Cavaliers hopes alive
 
#569
#569
n_huffhines said:
I agree with your general point, but today Jordan just wouldn't go to Atlantic City. He'd play cards all night at home.

One benefit that Jordan has is he spent very little time in anybody's shadow. The NBA just wasn't very popular when he came about. So yeah, with the long time fans people would be saying Russell, Magic, and Bird, but a huge portion of the fans were new fans and Jordan was the guy.

Lebron has spent his entire career in Jordan's shadow, despite doing everything you could possibly do to get out of that shadow. Lebron hasn't cracked under that pressure. He got better under that pressure.
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That's a good point - Jordan wasn't an idiot like Manziel is.

LeBron got better under pressure...eventually. I think he did probably struggle with it earlier in his career. He was expected to do way too much on those early Cavs teams he was on. There absolutely is a large group of people out there that, no matter what he does, will think he is some cheap imitation of Jordan (even though they are two different types of players) who is nowhere near as good as he was.

Jordan didn't win his first title until his 7th year in the league and they hold it against LeBron that he didn't win his first title until his 9th year (and that's while leading some bad Cavs teams on deep playoff runs). The biggest difference is that LeBron was "the next Jordan" while Jordan was not; he was able to invent the label himself because, as you said, there was no huge shadow.
 
#572
#572
Still can't believe Boston worked them so badly in this series. Philly is going to be better next year, but Boston is presumably going to be healthy. This is going to be one of those Cavs/Raptors things where Boston just owns Philly for a few years.
 
#573
#573
If only Joel Embiid was 7’2 and you could throw him the ball 🙄🙄🙄
 
#574
#574
zjcvols said:
If only Joel Embiid was 7’2 and you could throw him the ball 🙄🙄🙄
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Well they did that with 10 seconds left and he missed the easiest shot he could have taken then bounced it out of bounds off his own leg.
 
#575
#575
Notorious B.E.N said:
Well they did that with 10 seconds left and he missed the easiest shot he could have taken then bounced it out of bounds off his own leg.
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Even if he doesn’t take the shot he’s 7’2. Throw the ball high, let him get it, and make a play
 
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