Nationalized Voting

#151
#151
LouderVol said:
there is no governmental power to "do" something, before they have the actual law behind it to do whatever. again the Constitution is a LIMIT on the federal government, 10th amendment. only WHEN Congress passes a law does the government doing something, assuming its constitutional, become legal.

right now all Trump can do is hope Congress writes a law. writing a law has never been a power of the president. also he needs to hope Congress writes a favorable law, instead of one that works against him.

cops need a warrant to enter my house, unless they have reason to believe in X circumstances. if said cop enters my house, without a warrant and without reason X, he illegally entered my house. just because the cop CAN enter my house legally doesn't mean its automatically legal to do it. even for the government.

at 16 I can legally go get a drivers license, but I can not legally drive a car before I actually get the license, even though I am legally meet the requirements.

congress has the ability to raise taxes. they can not collect said taxes, until they pass the law behind it.

the government doesn't have the power/right to do whatever. UNTIL it passes a law saying it can. so there is no power without the legal backing. that is how the Constitution works, 10th Amendment.
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Ok...I would not expect anyone to follow a law that hasn't been legislated yet... My point is the power to work the law has always been with Congress and they worrying of said law to be our on place is not unconsitutional. Requiring adherence because said law was in place would be...
 
#152
#152
BigOrangeMojo said:
You all will use the same exact playbook the Trump admin is using to increase federal power to push your agenda. Just gonna be funny hearing Rs whining to "reduce the power of the fed govt" once you take back over....
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If Biden/Obama/Clinton had attempted to do what Trump is doing now, they would have been impeached.

Pretending that "democrats are just as bad" when it's a Republican president, a Republican congress, and a Republican Supreme Court that is following through with these actions, is about as disingenuous as a person can be with their "both-sidest" arguement.
 
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#153
#153
whodeycin85 said:
Ok...I would not expect anyone to follow a law that hasn't been legislated yet... My point is the power to work the law has always been with Congress and they worrying of said law to be our on place is not unconsitutional. Requiring adherence because said law was in place would be...
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within the authority of the executive branch to execute it.

the baseline assumption the Constitution lays out is that the government has zero power. except what is spelled out by the constitution. and then what is passed by Congress.

there is no baseline assumption that the government can do X, unless the Constitution says no. the baseline, starting point, is that the government can't do X, unless the constitution and congress say yes.

even then it is not required to actually be done. plenty of executives have ignored laws and the constitution. the courts have too.
 
#154
#154
BeardedVol said:
If Biden/Obama/Clinton had attempted to do what Trump is doing now, they would have been impeached.

Pretending that "democrats are just as bad" when it's a Republican president, a Republican congress, and a Republican Supreme Court that is following through with these actions, is about as disingenuous as a person can be with their "both-sidest" argument.
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Biden used powers to shut down churches, ban public gatherings, and a whole bunch of other things. never once did an impeachment vote come up.

Obama passed a secret law that even he didn't know what was in it, ordered the killing of an american citizen without warrant, and people still try to claim he had no scandals.

I will even through in bush with the patriot act.

the government has been vastly overstepping its powers and restricting the rights of Americans. you only care now because Trump is doing it. by the same token of your argument had any one of those three done what Trump is doing you probably would have failed to even acknowledge the wrong doing.
 
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#155
#155
LouderVol said:
within the authority of the executive branch to execute it.

the baseline assumption the Constitution lays out is that the government has zero power. except what is spelled out by the constitution. and then what is passed by Congress.

there is no baseline assumption that the government can do X, unless the Constitution says no. the baseline, starting point, is that the government can't do X, unless the constitution and congress say yes.

even then it is not required to actually be done. plenty of executives have ignored laws and the constitution. the courts have too.
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We’re not disagreeing on enforcement. Obviously no one follows a law that doesn’t exist, and the executive can’t act without statutory authority.
The point is narrower: Congress already possesses the constitutional authority to legislate in this area, and debating or drafting such a law is not itself unconstitutional.
Whether the law would survive judicial review is a separate question from whether Congress can consider it at all.
 
#156
#156
BeardedVol said:
If Biden/Obama/Clinton had attempted to do what Trump is doing now, they would have been impeached.

Pretending that "democrats are just as bad" when it's a Republican president, a Republican congress, and a Republican Supreme Court that is following through with these actions, is about as disingenuous as a person can be with their "both-sidest" argument.
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Biden was just as bad as Trump 1.0 in consolidating federal power. Again, a lot of this federal overreach under Biden admin was replacing Trump's overreach with D favorable policies/EOs. I will say none of the Dems you listed have reached Trump 2.0 yet.

Again, the point of my argument is to show Trump supporters who are all of a sudden for big federal govt that the shoe will be on the other foot and to be careful what you wish for with Congressional intervention.

We can be assured if this voting bill is enacted, the Ds will gut it when they get back in charge with policies more favorable to them.
 
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#157
#157
BeardedVol said:
If Biden/Obama/Clinton had attempted to do what Trump is doing now, they would have been impeached.

Pretending that "democrats are just as bad" when it's a Republican president, a Republican congress, and a Republican Supreme Court that is following through with these actions, is about as disingenuous as a person can be with their "both-sidest" arguement.
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What is Trump doing in this that would have had Biden, Obama and Clinton impeached?
 
#158
#158
LouderVol said:
within the authority of the executive branch to execute it.

the baseline assumption the Constitution lays out is that the government has zero power. except what is spelled out by the constitution. and then what is passed by Congress.

there is no baseline assumption that the government can do X, unless the Constitution says no. the baseline, starting point, is that the government can't do X, unless the constitution and congress say yes.

even then it is not required to actually be done. plenty of executives have ignored laws and the constitution. the courts have too.
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What is the gov't doing per elections that the Constitution does not allow?
 
#159
#159
whodeycin85 said:
We’re not disagreeing on enforcement. Obviously no one follows a law that doesn’t exist, and the executive can’t act without statutory authority.
The point is narrower: Congress already possesses the constitutional authority to legislate in this area, and debating or drafting such a law is not itself unconstitutional.
Whether the law would survive judicial review is a separate question from whether Congress can consider it at all.
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What are they considering that SCOTUS may overturn? SCOTUS has already ruled that Congress' Constitutional power to make legislation elections is default.
 
#160
#160
BigOrangeMojo said:
Biden was just as bad as Trump 1.0 in consolidating federal power. Again, a lot of this federal overreach under Biden admin was replacing Trump's overreach with D favorable policies/EOs. I will say none of the Dems you listed have reached Trump 2.0 yet.

Again, the point of my argument is to show Trump supporters who are all of a sudden for big federal govt that the shoe will be on the other foot and to be careful what you wish for with Congressional intervention.

We can be assured if this voting bill is enacted, the Ds will gut it when they get back in charge with policies more favorable to them.
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It's my understanding that the VAST majority of Americans are for election reform, Voter Identification, etc... If that were the case, and Democrats would gut it out of spite, is it possible that that is one reason why the Dems have lost political platform in the country?
 
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#162
#162
Orange_Crush said:
What is the gov't doing per elections that the Constitution does not allow?
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doing now? nothing that I know of, I don't think anyone has made that claim.

i was pointing out that per the 10th amendment the government doesn't start with the "power" to do anything, and it just has to formalize it with a law.

the starting assumption is the government has no power. period. then the constitution gives them some powers. then congress can give others. but its built from a base of zero power.
 
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#163
#163
whodeycin85 said:
Nothing that I know of..but it irrelevant to the current is it legal convo which is all I'm concerned with.
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I haven't been deeply in tune with this subject the past couple of days. Has Trump said any more dumb things that I haven't heard about? The last I heard, he was encouraging Congress to pass election legislation that the Constitution explicitly grants them the power to do. Now, we find out that Biden, Obama, or Clinton would have gotten impeached for having encouraged Congress to pass legislation on election that is explicitly empowered by the Constitution?

Is that what I'm reading in here now? What am I missing?
 
#164
#164
LouderVol said:
doing now? nothing that I know of, I don't think anyone has made that claim.

i was pointing out that per the 10th amendment the government doesn't start with the "power" to do anything, and it just has to formalize it with a law.

the starting assumption is the government has no power. period. then the constitution gives them some powers. then congress can give others. but its built from a base of zero power.
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I think I understand that. And I believe we both agree that the Constitution explicitly gives them the power to pass election laws. I guess there's a semantic argument to be avoided here. I believe you are saying that they do not have a "power" until they exercise it, thus they are expanding their power. I would say that they are not expanding their power; they are exercising the power originally given them in the Constitution.

If I drive my big block at 35 mph for 50 miles, and then open it up on the 51st, I did not expand my power. I restrained a power that I'd always had until I was ready to exercise the power I always had at my disposal.

Congress has always had power over elections.
 
#165
#165
whodeycin85 said:
We’re not disagreeing on enforcement. Obviously no one follows a law that doesn’t exist, and the executive can’t act without statutory authority.
The point is narrower: Congress already possesses the constitutional authority to legislate in this area, and debating or drafting such a law is not itself unconstitutional.
Whether the law would survive judicial review is a separate question from whether Congress can consider it at all.
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If the constitution says only u.s. citizens are allowed to vote in national elections, what is the mechanism to insure that only u.s. citizens vote?
 
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#166
#166
Orange_Crush said:
And if that's a forgone conclusion, why should Conservatives ask Trump not to execute his current authorities for conservative principals, if he can do them legally? If the Dems are already going to respond vindictively, Trump should just sit idly by and wait for it?

And if it's a forgone conclusion that the Dems would use the gift of leadership/authority vindictively, why should any moderate trust them with it in the future?
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What conservative principles is Trump trying to execute?

His attack on the 2A?

His reckless spending?

Increasing the power and scope of the federal government?
 
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#168
#168
MOOOOONEY said:
What conservative principles is Trump trying to execute?
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Pushing for national voter ID, for one.

MOOOOONEY said:
His attack on the 2A?
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Pushing for national voter ID, for one. I take it you just jumped into the conversation without reading it?

MOOOOONEY said:
His reckless spending?
Click to expand...

Pushing for national voter ID, for one. I take it you just jumped into the conversation without reading it?

MOOOOONEY said:
Increasing the power and scope of the federal government?
Click to expand...

Pushing for national voter ID, for one. I take it you just jumped into the conversation without reading it?

If you'd read what led up to the post you responded to, you could have saved everyone the trouble.
 
#169
#169
Orange_Crush said:
Pushing for national voter ID, for one.



Pushing for national voter ID, for one. I take it you just jumped into the conversation without reading it?



Pushing for national voter ID, for one. I take it you just jumped into the conversation without reading it?



Pushing for national voter ID, for one. I take it you just jumped into the conversation without reading it?

If you'd read what led up to the post you responded to, you could have saved everyone the trouble.
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A national ID is far from a conservative principle. Quite the opposite of conservative.
 
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#175
#175
Someone needs to tell the Senate Majority Leader he has no idea what he is talking about. And it would appear after some searching the House Speaker has found his spine.

www.foxnews.com

Trump doubles down on calls for GOP to 'nationalize' voting as congressional leaders balk

President Donald Trump calls for Republicans to "nationalize" voting in certain areas, defending federal election takeover despite constitutional concerns.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

Prominent Republicans have hesitated to fall in behind Trump on the issue. Senate Majority Leader John Thune outright rejected the idea when asked about it later Tuesday.

"I’m not in favor of federalizing elections, no. I think that’s a constitutional issue," he told reporters.

House Speaker Mike Johnson sought to make excuses for Trump's suggestion when he was asked about the issue. He argued Trump was simply "expressing his frustration" about election issues. Nevertheless, he ultimately said he would not support federalizing elections either.
 
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