Nashville Autonomous Zone

#551
#551
hog88 said:
Ok, let's say your 75% stat is correct. Is most of that crime committed in the attempt to get more drugs (stealing), selling drugs or turf wars between drug dealers?
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That's a great point. Are we creating criminals by making it illegal? And of that 75%, how much of it is "minor" enough that potions of society would say not to bother with, since it was brought into the conversation?
 
#552
#552
hog88 said:
Ok, let's say your 75% stat is correct. Is most of that crime committed in the attempt to get more drugs (stealing), selling drugs or turf wars between drug dealers?
Click to expand...
It's a huge mix of drug-related stuff:

- intoxicated people hurting themselves in others in wrecks, walking out into traffic, fighting others etc
- robberies/shootings/assaults related to drug dealers and rival gangs vs each other
- robberies/shootings/assaults of drug addicts trying to rob the dealers or vice versa
-95% of prostitution and the crimes associated with that which are done to feed drug habits
-80-90% of all thefts/burglaries/home invasions/stolen vehicles/etc all done to feed drug habits
-Sex trafficking, murders while intoxicated, rapes while intoxicated.

Literally the only other reasons crime happen besides drugs are:
- greed over money that has nothing to do with drugs
- issues with relationships (jealous over cheating, etc)
- those who commit crimes for true psychological issues (i.e. serial killers)
 
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#553
#553
There have been theories that the CIA is the one big drug cartel that all the other cartels work for, and that $$$ pays for off the books black programs.
 
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#554
#554
Orange_Crush said:
That's a great point. Are we creating criminals by making it illegal? And of that 75%, how much of it is "minor" enough that potions of society would say not to bother with, since it was brought into the conversation?
Click to expand...
They would be committing the crimes whether drugs was illegal or not. The very nature of being addicted to drugs put you in a state to commit crimes to feed your habit. Just because heroin could be legal and sold for $100 doesn't mean that people won't continue to do the very crimes needed to get money for it.

And to your other point in the other post, NO ONE goes to prison for several years for simple possession of a small amount of weed or some such thing. Either they have a long criminal history also or they are drug dealing large amounts.
 
#555
#555
n_huffhines said:
It is the largest government portion of their problem, by a mile. People are worried about absent Fathers...the war on drugs separates fathers from their kids. People are worried about black on black violence. The war on drugs is a large source of violence within the black community. Worried about drug dealing opportunities taking kids out of school and away from more honorable work? End the war on drugs, problem solved.
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I disagree.

The war on drugs doesn't separate fathers from their kids, the actions of the fathers joining gangs, selling drugs, committing violence does that. It's not like these people would be teaching Sunday school and being a great father if drug laws didnt exist.

Black on black violence has to do with gangs and they would exist if drugs were made legal as well, and dealing drugs wouldn't go away in urban areas just by being made legal
 
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#556
#556
Rickyvol77 said:
They would be committing the crimes whether drugs was illegal or not. The very nature of being addicted to drugs put you in a state to commit crimes to feed your habit. Just because heroin could be legal and sold for $100 doesn't mean that people won't continue to do the very crimes needed to get money for it.

And to your other point in the other post, NO ONE goes to prison for several years for simple possession of a small amount of weed or some such thing. Either they have a long criminal history also or they are drug dealing large amounts.
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That's a bold statement.




















Then making them illegal doesn't work?
 
#557
#557
Rickyvol77 said:
I disagree.

The war on drugs doesn't separate fathers from their kids, the actions of the fathers joining gangs, selling drugs, committing violence does that. It's not like these people would be teaching Sunday school and being a great father if drug laws didnt exist.

Black on black violence has to do with gangs and they would exist if drugs were made legal as well, and dealing drugs wouldn't go away in urban areas just by being made legal
Click to expand...

Without doing a deep dive I know that Chicago has had gang problems since the mid 1800s I’m not positive but I don’t think there was a war on drugs then .
 
#559
#559
Rickyvol77 said:
It's a huge mix of drug-related stuff:

- intoxicated people hurting themselves in others in wrecks, walking out into traffic, fighting others etc
- robberies/shootings/assaults related to drug dealers and rival gangs vs each other
- robberies/shootings/assaults of drug addicts trying to rob the dealers or vice versa
-95% of prostitution and the crimes associated with that which are done to feed drug habits
-80-90% of all thefts/burglaries/home invasions/stolen vehicles/etc all done to feed drug habits
-Sex trafficking, murders while intoxicated, rapes while intoxicated.

Literally the only other reasons crime happen besides drugs are:
- greed over money that has nothing to do with drugs
- issues with relationships (jealous over cheating, etc)
- those who commit crimes for true psychological issues (i.e. serial killers)
Click to expand...

How many of these crimes do you think are committed by people who had non-violent drug related convictions so had problems getting employment and cycled back to drugs?
 
#561
#561
0nelilreb said:
After reading more articles it seems the first “ gangs” were started by firefighters of apparently what they considered their turf . I didn’t know that .
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Funny enough, I think that was in the movie. lol They showed up to burning houses and beat each other to death for the right to put out the fire--while the house burned down.
 
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#562
#562
I was referring to fentanyl being used to lace heroin which makes much more highly addictive. There is a difference between methamphetamine used in weight loss drugs or certain medications and crystal meth sold on the streets created in makeshift labs.
 
#563
#563
n_huffhines said:
It is the largest government portion of their problem, by a mile. People are worried about absent Fathers...the war on drugs separates fathers from their kids. People are worried about black on black violence. The war on drugs is a large source of violence within the black community. Worried about drug dealing opportunities taking kids out of school and away from more honorable work? End the war on drugs, problem solved.
Click to expand...
Again, it only explains a portion of those issues, the father being absent in the home chief among them. Most are not in kids lives long before they are incarcerated. Violence I will concede. Working is another that is at best half related to war on drugs.

We can argue how much blame goes where but it really doesn't matter. Where do we go to fix it. Drugs are now a part of the culture. Decriminalization of hard drugs isn't the answer. Treatment and resources would be better baskets to throw eggs into along with a fresh look at sentencing/rehab for harder drugs. Decriminalization of marijuana is overdue.
 
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#564
#564
McDad said:
Could they be ignorant on racial matters?
Could they be a new immigrant and unaware?
Could they be mentally deficient?
Could they be pollyanna on it?
Could they have studied it and concluded it isnt as pervasive and systematic as claimed?
Could they agree racism exists but it is largely benign and of little consequence?
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I think your #2 point is highly relevant. Immigrants typically don't give a shiate about another country's history especially when they are liberals. Nothing like 1st and possibly 2nd generation foreigners trying to dictate what is important in representing a country's history.
 
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#566
#566
hog88 said:
How many of these crimes do you think are committed by people who had non-violent drug related convictions so had problems getting employment and cycled back to drugs?
Click to expand...
there are three levels of drug addiction, you can escape the first level pretty easy, even with an addictive personality.

2nd is a lot harder

3rd is almost impossible without severe treatment and changes

If you are saying that someone getting arrested for a baggie of meth or weed is what is keeping them jobless and on drugs, that is mostly BS, although most employers drug test and will not hire druggies.

The "cycle" of crime that keeps people from getting employment is not having a stable job history, address, money, car, no driver's license etc. because they usually are involved in various criminal activities (thefts, etc) No one MAKES them choose that life, they do it to themselves
 
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#567
#567
KB5252 said:
Again, it only explains a portion of those issues, the father being absent in the home chief among them. Most are not in kids lives long before they are incarcerated. Violence I will concede. Working is another that is at best half related to war on drugs.

We can argue how much blame goes where but it really doesn't matter. Where do we go to fix it. Drugs are now a part of the culture. Decriminalization of hard drugs isn't the answer. Treatment and resources would be better baskets to throw eggs into along with a fresh look at sentencing/rehab for harder drugs. Decriminalization of marijuana is overdue.
Click to expand...

Link?

You're perpetuating a myth. Although the marital rate is lower among blacks, that doesn't mean Fathers are absent. In fact,

Di6VvKUX0AITcEw.jpg
 
#568
#568
n_huffhines said:
Link?

You're perpetuating a myth. Although the marital rate is lower among blacks, that doesn't mean Fathers are absent. In fact,

Di6VvKUX0AITcEw.jpg
Click to expand...
Then why "dirsupt" the nuclear family?
I don't get it.
Edit: ok I see in similar living situations....wonder how that's determined
 
#571
#571
n_huffhines said:
?
Click to expand...

There is an absolute crisis in the black community involving absent fathers.

I am skeptical of your graph. It looks like something where a study was manipulated to get the desired results. The "in similar living situations" strikes me. Does this mean this is non married dads broken into 2 groups - those living with the kids versus those not living with the kids?
 
#573
#573
allvol123 said:
There is an absolute crisis in the black community involving absent fathers.

I am skeptical of your graph. It looks like something where a study was manipulated to get the desired results. The "in similar living situations" strikes me. Does this mean this is non married dads broken into 2 groups - those living with the kids versus those not living with the kids?
Click to expand...

My argument is that the war on drugs is a major contributor to the absence of black fathers. Do you think it's better to have Fathers see their kids once a week or not at all?

The stats are what they are. You can interpret them however you want. Nobody has manipulated anything, it's just information. Do you know how committed to parenting you have to be to not live with your kids but play with them daily? That's 17% of black "absent" Fathers. That's a crazy number.
 
#575
#575
n_huffhines said:
My argument is that the war on drugs is a major contributor to the absence of black fathers. Do you think it's better to have Fathers see their kids once a week or not at all?

The stats are what they are. You can interpret them however you want. Nobody has manipulated anything, it's just information. Do you know how committed to parenting you have to be to not live with your kids but play with them daily? That's 17% of black "absent" Fathers. That's a crazy number.
Click to expand...

You know the study that deeply? You're that involved with it? Does the living with group exclude married fathers?
 
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