My thoughts on the Kentucky game, after sleeping on it

#26
#26
GregAmsler said:
It's not an argument FOR anyone. It means that you don't know the ultimate direction a coach will take a program at this point. Dabo also inherited more talent in an easier conference. But the point remains...it's not time to decide that Pruitt is a failure. Not even close. He may be, he may not be. I happen to think he'll get it done.
Click to expand...

Oh come on man, you know exactly you were doing throwing Dabo's name out there, as I said this is an old trick that's been used for 2 previous coaches. If you're going to throw it out there then fair criticism of the comparison is valid.
 
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#28
#28
GregAmsler said:
It would be difficult to add to what has already been said about the Kentucky game. There wasn't a lot of positive to take from this.

-Obviously, QB play killed us. We knew last week that JG wasn't going to get us through the season. But I didn't expect this. He usually plays okay against the Kentuckys of the world. But he was abysmal. I'm hard pressed to think of a time a QB killed Tennessee more in a single game. Maybe Peterman at Florida, but that was a freshman starting his first game in The Swamp (I'll allude to that later), this is a 5th year senior with a ton of experience. Worse, the team has given up on him. That much was obvious. After the second pick 6, they seemed to slowly fade. While I'm not saying we don't have concerns elsewhere, I will say that QB is the most important position in sports: a good one can hide other deficiencies and a bad one can make deficiencies where there otherwise aren't any. Guarantano is not only NOT lifting this team up, he's making it worse than it actually is. He took a sack in the first half that was absurd. All he had to do was feel pressure, which WASN'T FROM THE BLIND SIDE, BUT IN HIS FACE, step up, avoid pressure, and make a throw. Instead he stood there, like someone standing in front of a truck attempting suicide. It would've blown my mind if I hadn't seen it so often before.

-This staff needs to get Bailey ready. Shrout and Maurer obviously aren't the answers. After the Kentucky loss, you stand to gain nothing from this season except two things:

1) Prepare for next season.
2) Try to possibly upset Florida. Beating Florida would salvage some good from this season. And it's possible with good QB play.

Starting Bailey and getting him ready is the best way to accomplish both of those. You're not going to beat Florida with Guarantano, Shrout, or Maurer. Bailey has the highest upside and the closer you get him to that upside, the better for the team. You have until December 5 to get him ready for Florida. He'll get better as the year goes on, then you go into next season knowing who your QB is, which is best for him and best for the team.

That said, I would NOT start him against Alabama. You don't want to kill a true freshman's confidence by giving him his first start against that defense...just as they did to Peterman in The Swamp. Let JG, Shrout, or whoever take his lumps against Bama. As soon as that game is over, make Bailey your #1 and go into the off week with a plan to get him up ton speed as quickly as possible, with 2 weeks before Arkansas.

-That's also true for other freshmen. After Bama, start involving Wideman, Beckwith, Eason, Hyatt, and others.

-Eric Gray played well. I'll say that.

-The offensive line looked good run blocking...and that's not nothing against a very good Kentucky front. Unfortunately, JG's turnovers put Tennessee behind the 8-ball so early that Tennessee couldn't line up and run the ball whenever they wanted. But I'm convinced that if Tennessee had just run the ball every play on offense, this would have been a close game. Tennessee may have even won.

-The defense played a good first half. And I don't think they played poorly in the 2nd half (which they did) because they were tired. Like the rest of the team, I think they got defeated. They've seen the JG shitshow too many times. One more example of how poor QB play can kill a team.

-Many of y'all are the biggest chicken little cryass fans in the world. It's gross. No, it's not time to fire Pruitt. No, Tennessee isn't doomed to be bad forever. But if we keep firing coaches every 3-5 years, we will be. I saw a post asking "what does Pruitt give you besides recruiting?" Well, he's the best defensive mind in Knoxville in a long, long time. His players genuinely like him because he is genuine. He brings accountability. He has an understanding of how championship programs are built and maintained. He'll get Tennessee there. You can either be along for the ride or not. And no, this isn't the worst loss in...whenever. Georgia State was worse. BYU was worse. Kentucky 2011 and 2017 were worse. Some of those Vandy losses were much worse. This is actually a good Kentucky team. Those teams weren't.

This is a weird year. In a normal one, the QB problem would have been addressed in spring because the best QB on the roster would've had an entire spring practice to get up to speed. Instead, Bailey didn't get a spring or a fall practice. Pruitt was left a crap QB room when he took over. It's hard to go land a 5* QB recruit coming off a 4-8 season with terrible OLine play. But in his 2nd full recruiting class, he landed one. He didn't get a chance to develop him early. But he will. And that will make this team look much better. Dan Mullen, on the other hand, looks great because of what he inherited. He got Franks AND Trask (not to mention Kyle Pitts, who committed to the prior staff...and a bevy of other talented players). Think Pruitt wouldn't kill for either? But Pruitt has drastically increased the talent level and player development. He is a first time head coach and he is still learning. That's undeniable. But talk of firing him at this point is ridiculous.

This is kind of a throwaway season anyway. Use it to build the program. Like it or not, that's still happening. We're not there, nor should we be. You don't fire a coach based on the results of this weird year with truncated practice times, players coming and going into quarantine, a weird schedule, no spring practice, etc. I know, "everyone else is dealing with the same thing." True. But everyone else isn't building from what Tennessee was building from. Everyone else doesn't have to deal with no viable QB option from the upper class, so they HAD to rely on the true freshman.

Moreover, should Clemson have fired Dabo after he went 6-7 his third year? Should Tennessee have fired Fulmer after he started 1-3 in his 3rd year with A TON more talent? That team lost to a 3-win UCLA team and a bad Mississippi State team. Common denominator? Bad QB play...until the freshman kind named Manning got up to speed.

Jeremy Pruitt will get the job done at Tennessee. This isn't a Butch Jones or Derek Dooley situation. Feel free to screen shot this and call me on it if I'm wrong in a few years.
Click to expand...
Please define what “Jeremy Pruitt will get the job done at Tennessee” means. Is that a division, conference, or national championship? Is that averaging ten wins a year? And how long will it take to meet whatever criteria you set as the standard from the previous question?
 
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#29
#29
GetYouSomeofThat said:
You lost me at

Kentucky 2011 and 2017 were worse.


Because thatvis verifiably false..verifiable with scores and game results. Why anyone would think a loss of literally historic proportions is not as bad as any in a long time is deep in the kool aid. Like swimming instead of drinking deep in the kool aid.


Of course i do agree that it isnt as bad as the Georgia State loss....but yall get to blame that one on CBJ..im mot sure how but some still do



So in CJPs tenure he amd his staff are directly responsible for two of the most embarrassing losses in our 100+ year histroy.


But he is the guy...aight
Click to expand...

It speaks to what he inherited. A tiny OL with like 1 over 300 lbs. A team who had to lift during the season like because of the lack of size. A gang of uncoached 3⭐ and 1 maybe 2 5⭐ players. The cubert was bare. We are better understand his tenure by far but still need to get a few pieces in place starting at the QB position.
 
#30
#30
Agree with all your points, other than not playing Bailey against Bama. If he is not a headcase like JG, it won’t kill his confidence. Instead he’ll gain valuable experience, get up to SEC speed, and improve from it. If he goes out there and just gets obliterated in the 1st quarter/half, then maybe make a switch just to keep him from getting injured. But i think this game is most likely a loss anyway, and he can learn a lot from starting it.
 
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#31
#31
If the players can’t agree to give their all for Tennessee, they should leave and take up a different sport
 
#33
#33
BeardedVol said:
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Click to expand...
 
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#35
#35
FLVOL_79 said:
Everyone knew no spring practice or real summer/fall camp was going to turn out a product that could be easily classified somewhere between Not Really Good and Barely Mediocre. What we got was a huge steaming sh!tshow covered in burnt hair served by a redneck in gypsy drag and a QB whose name could easily be mistaken for to a detention facility on a small island in the Caribbean.




Also, the insurance sales, you are giving him too much credit. I'm thinking mid level Cricket Mobile night shift manager. I'm willing to bet some of his truest homers on here can easily get him on the team...
Click to expand...
 
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#36
#36
Dr H Lecter said:
I wish I had as much confidence about CJP as you. I honestly have a hard time understanding how we have this qb problem three years into his tenure. He either (1) can’t recruit a quality qb; (2) can’t evaluate qb talent; or (3) can’t coach or find coaches that know how to coach a qb. Can you honestly, with straight face, tell me that JG is a better qb now than three years ago? His line is better and his skill players are better (and I do give CJP the credit for that) but he is not.
Click to expand...
I think JG is a practice MVP. Can make all the throws but in the real game he hesitates, misses receivers, and makes horrible decisions. I think the coaches waited too long hoping to see him perform in games like he does in practice. Not defending them, at this point they should’ve found another qb. But I hope he can learn from this debacle. He is a young HC, we really have no shot but to give him a couple more years.
 
#37
#37
GregAmsler said:
It would be difficult to add to what has already been said about the Kentucky game. There wasn't a lot of positive to take from this.

-Obviously, QB play killed us. We knew last week that JG wasn't going to get us through the season. But I didn't expect this. He usually plays okay against the Kentuckys of the world. But he was abysmal. I'm hard pressed to think of a time a QB killed Tennessee more in a single game. Maybe Peterman at Florida, but that was a freshman starting his first game in The Swamp (I'll allude to that later), this is a 5th year senior with a ton of experience. Worse, the team has given up on him. That much was obvious. After the second pick 6, they seemed to slowly fade. While I'm not saying we don't have concerns elsewhere, I will say that QB is the most important position in sports: a good one can hide other deficiencies and a bad one can make deficiencies where there otherwise aren't any. Guarantano is not only NOT lifting this team up, he's making it worse than it actually is. He took a sack in the first half that was absurd. All he had to do was feel pressure, which WASN'T FROM THE BLIND SIDE, BUT IN HIS FACE, step up, avoid pressure, and make a throw. Instead he stood there, like someone standing in front of a truck attempting suicide. It would've blown my mind if I hadn't seen it so often before.

-This staff needs to get Bailey ready. Shrout and Maurer obviously aren't the answers. After the Kentucky loss, you stand to gain nothing from this season except two things:

1) Prepare for next season.
2) Try to possibly upset Florida. Beating Florida would salvage some good from this season. And it's possible with good QB play.

Starting Bailey and getting him ready is the best way to accomplish both of those. You're not going to beat Florida with Guarantano, Shrout, or Maurer. Bailey has the highest upside and the closer you get him to that upside, the better for the team. You have until December 5 to get him ready for Florida. He'll get better as the year goes on, then you go into next season knowing who your QB is, which is best for him and best for the team.

That said, I would NOT start him against Alabama. You don't want to kill a true freshman's confidence by giving him his first start against that defense...just as they did to Peterman in The Swamp. Let JG, Shrout, or whoever take his lumps against Bama. As soon as that game is over, make Bailey your #1 and go into the off week with a plan to get him up ton speed as quickly as possible, with 2 weeks before Arkansas.

-That's also true for other freshmen. After Bama, start involving Wideman, Beckwith, Eason, Hyatt, and others.

-Eric Gray played well. I'll say that.

-The offensive line looked good run blocking...and that's not nothing against a very good Kentucky front. Unfortunately, JG's turnovers put Tennessee behind the 8-ball so early that Tennessee couldn't line up and run the ball whenever they wanted. But I'm convinced that if Tennessee had just run the ball every play on offense, this would have been a close game. Tennessee may have even won.

-The defense played a good first half. And I don't think they played poorly in the 2nd half (which they did) because they were tired. Like the rest of the team, I think they got defeated. They've seen the JG shitshow too many times. One more example of how poor QB play can kill a team.

-Many of y'all are the biggest chicken little cryass fans in the world. It's gross. No, it's not time to fire Pruitt. No, Tennessee isn't doomed to be bad forever. But if we keep firing coaches every 3-5 years, we will be. I saw a post asking "what does Pruitt give you besides recruiting?" Well, he's the best defensive mind in Knoxville in a long, long time. His players genuinely like him because he is genuine. He brings accountability. He has an understanding of how championship programs are built and maintained. He'll get Tennessee there. You can either be along for the ride or not. And no, this isn't the worst loss in...whenever. Georgia State was worse. BYU was worse. Kentucky 2011 and 2017 were worse. Some of those Vandy losses were much worse. This is actually a good Kentucky team. Those teams weren't.

This is a weird year. In a normal one, the QB problem would have been addressed in spring because the best QB on the roster would've had an entire spring practice to get up to speed. Instead, Bailey didn't get a spring or a fall practice. Pruitt was left a crap QB room when he took over. It's hard to go land a 5* QB recruit coming off a 4-8 season with terrible OLine play. But in his 2nd full recruiting class, he landed one. He didn't get a chance to develop him early. But he will. And that will make this team look much better. Dan Mullen, on the other hand, looks great because of what he inherited. He got Franks AND Trask (not to mention Kyle Pitts, who committed to the prior staff...and a bevy of other talented players). Think Pruitt wouldn't kill for either? But Pruitt has drastically increased the talent level and player development. He is a first time head coach and he is still learning. That's undeniable. But talk of firing him at this point is ridiculous.

This is kind of a throwaway season anyway. Use it to build the program. Like it or not, that's still happening. We're not there, nor should we be. You don't fire a coach based on the results of this weird year with truncated practice times, players coming and going into quarantine, a weird schedule, no spring practice, etc. I know, "everyone else is dealing with the same thing." True. But everyone else isn't building from what Tennessee was building from. Everyone else doesn't have to deal with no viable QB option from the upper class, so they HAD to rely on the true freshman.

Moreover, should Clemson have fired Dabo after he went 6-7 his third year? Should Tennessee have fired Fulmer after he started 1-3 in his 3rd year with A TON more talent? That team lost to a 3-win UCLA team and a bad Mississippi State team. Common denominator? Bad QB play...until the freshman kind named Manning got up to speed.

Jeremy Pruitt will get the job done at Tennessee. This isn't a Butch Jones or Derek Dooley situation. Feel free to screen shot this and call me on it if I'm wrong in a few years.
Click to expand...
You have to prepare ALL your quarterbacks to come in and perform to a standard. Ohio State won a national championship with its third string QB.
 
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#38
#38
GregAmsler said:
It would be difficult to add to what has already been said about the Kentucky game. There wasn't a lot of positive to take from this.

-Obviously, QB play killed us. We knew last week that JG wasn't going to get us through the season. But I didn't expect this. He usually plays okay against the Kentuckys of the world. But he was abysmal. I'm hard pressed to think of a time a QB killed Tennessee more in a single game. Maybe Peterman at Florida, but that was a freshman starting his first game in The Swamp (I'll allude to that later), this is a 5th year senior with a ton of experience. Worse, the team has given up on him. That much was obvious. After the second pick 6, they seemed to slowly fade. While I'm not saying we don't have concerns elsewhere, I will say that QB is the most important position in sports: a good one can hide other deficiencies and a bad one can make deficiencies where there otherwise aren't any. Guarantano is not only NOT lifting this team up, he's making it worse than it actually is. He took a sack in the first half that was absurd. All he had to do was feel pressure, which WASN'T FROM THE BLIND SIDE, BUT IN HIS FACE, step up, avoid pressure, and make a throw. Instead he stood there, like someone standing in front of a truck attempting suicide. It would've blown my mind if I hadn't seen it so often before.

-This staff needs to get Bailey ready. Shrout and Maurer obviously aren't the answers. After the Kentucky loss, you stand to gain nothing from this season except two things:

1) Prepare for next season.
2) Try to possibly upset Florida. Beating Florida would salvage some good from this season. And it's possible with good QB play.

Starting Bailey and getting him ready is the best way to accomplish both of those. You're not going to beat Florida with Guarantano, Shrout, or Maurer. Bailey has the highest upside and the closer you get him to that upside, the better for the team. You have until December 5 to get him ready for Florida. He'll get better as the year goes on, then you go into next season knowing who your QB is, which is best for him and best for the team.

That said, I would NOT start him against Alabama. You don't want to kill a true freshman's confidence by giving him his first start against that defense...just as they did to Peterman in The Swamp. Let JG, Shrout, or whoever take his lumps against Bama. As soon as that game is over, make Bailey your #1 and go into the off week with a plan to get him up ton speed as quickly as possible, with 2 weeks before Arkansas.

-That's also true for other freshmen. After Bama, start involving Wideman, Beckwith, Eason, Hyatt, and others.

-Eric Gray played well. I'll say that.

-The offensive line looked good run blocking...and that's not nothing against a very good Kentucky front. Unfortunately, JG's turnovers put Tennessee behind the 8-ball so early that Tennessee couldn't line up and run the ball whenever they wanted. But I'm convinced that if Tennessee had just run the ball every play on offense, this would have been a close game. Tennessee may have even won.

-The defense played a good first half. And I don't think they played poorly in the 2nd half (which they did) because they were tired. Like the rest of the team, I think they got defeated. They've seen the JG shitshow too many times. One more example of how poor QB play can kill a team.

-Many of y'all are the biggest chicken little cryass fans in the world. It's gross. No, it's not time to fire Pruitt. No, Tennessee isn't doomed to be bad forever. But if we keep firing coaches every 3-5 years, we will be. I saw a post asking "what does Pruitt give you besides recruiting?" Well, he's the best defensive mind in Knoxville in a long, long time. His players genuinely like him because he is genuine. He brings accountability. He has an understanding of how championship programs are built and maintained. He'll get Tennessee there. You can either be along for the ride or not. And no, this isn't the worst loss in...whenever. Georgia State was worse. BYU was worse. Kentucky 2011 and 2017 were worse. Some of those Vandy losses were much worse. This is actually a good Kentucky team. Those teams weren't.

This is a weird year. In a normal one, the QB problem would have been addressed in spring because the best QB on the roster would've had an entire spring practice to get up to speed. Instead, Bailey didn't get a spring or a fall practice. Pruitt was left a crap QB room when he took over. It's hard to go land a 5* QB recruit coming off a 4-8 season with terrible OLine play. But in his 2nd full recruiting class, he landed one. He didn't get a chance to develop him early. But he will. And that will make this team look much better. Dan Mullen, on the other hand, looks great because of what he inherited. He got Franks AND Trask (not to mention Kyle Pitts, who committed to the prior staff...and a bevy of other talented players). Think Pruitt wouldn't kill for either? But Pruitt has drastically increased the talent level and player development. He is a first time head coach and he is still learning. That's undeniable. But talk of firing him at this point is ridiculous.

This is kind of a throwaway season anyway. Use it to build the program. Like it or not, that's still happening. We're not there, nor should we be. You don't fire a coach based on the results of this weird year with truncated practice times, players coming and going into quarantine, a weird schedule, no spring practice, etc. I know, "everyone else is dealing with the same thing." True. But everyone else isn't building from what Tennessee was building from. Everyone else doesn't have to deal with no viable QB option from the upper class, so they HAD to rely on the true freshman.

Moreover, should Clemson have fired Dabo after he went 6-7 his third year? Should Tennessee have fired Fulmer after he started 1-3 in his 3rd year with A TON more talent? That team lost to a 3-win UCLA team and a bad Mississippi State team. Common denominator? Bad QB play...until the freshman kind named Manning got up to speed.

Jeremy Pruitt will get the job done at Tennessee. This isn't a Butch Jones or Derek Dooley situation. Feel free to screen shot this and call me on it if I'm wrong in a few years.
Click to expand...
Solid point about a good QB hiding deficiencies. Jones won 1 SEC game by anyone not named Dobbs.
 
#39
#39
Mullen inherited Franks and Trask, huh.

Like walking into a gold mine. A Florida version of JG and a 2* recruit who hadn’t started a game since 9th grade.

Everyone thought he was set with that combo
 
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#40
#40
GetYouSomeofThat said:
You lost me at

Kentucky 2011 and 2017 were worse.


Because thatvis verifiably false..verifiable with scores and game results. Why anyone would think a loss of literally historic proportions is not as bad as any in a long time is deep in the kool aid. Like swimming instead of drinking deep in the kool aid.


Of course i do agree that it isnt as bad as the Georgia State loss....but yall get to blame that one on CBJ..im mot sure how but some still do



So in CJPs tenure he amd his staff are directly responsible for two of the most embarrassing losses in our 100+ year histroy.


But he is the guy...aight
Click to expand...

Lol I missed this.

The only way I'd argue 2011 was worse was because it broke the streak and KY won with a gimmick offense. Kentucky ended 5-7 that year, just like us. And the 2017 KY team was 7-6 and lost in the TaxSlayer Bowl. Saying this KY is good....well we'll see about that won't we? They lost at Auburn and lost at home to an Ole Miss team with 1 win, and their other victory was over a Miss St. team that also has won 1 game.
 
#41
#41
99gator said:
Mullen inherited Franks and Trask, huh.

Like walking into a gold mine. A Florida version of JG and a 2* recruit who hadn’t started a game since 9th grade.

Everyone thought he was set with that combo
Click to expand...

This sudden praise/revisionist history for Franks around here is hilarious, especially since Franks looks exactly the same as he was at UF.

And Trask actually hurts the point he's trying to make.
 
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#42
#42
99gator said:
Mullen inherited Franks and Trask, huh.

Like walking into a gold mine. A Florida version of JG and a 2* recruit who hadn’t started a game since 9th grade.

Everyone thought he was set with that combo
Click to expand...

I’m curious as to how much Mullen could have helped JG. I have no doubt he would be better than he is now, but I’m not sure he would still be serviceable.
 
#43
#43
I don't think it is crazy to question Pruitt at this point. It's a lot more than the complete mismanagement of the QB position. It's across the board from OL to TE to WR, the offense just isn't progressing. Then you look at the D, his speciality and you have a secondary that gets continually beat in the middle of the field with zero adjustment, lb play outside of Henry has been spotty at best and his DL is undersized without an elite pass rusher.

The guy is a great coordinator and defensive mind but I don't see that translating into running/managing a program right now. He deserves another year and let's see how this one finishes up, but there are warning signs.
 
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#45
#45
There are offensive passing plays that exist in football that don’t require your qb to read a whole defense nor throw into tight windows. Hell KY showed us that yesterday with all of this quick slants and read option seam routes. I know crazy our OC doesn’t know that right? Our OC didn’t give any transition to these limits. They strictly ran the ball the rest of the game to save JG. I only saw one easy throw screen to wr that still almost got picked after JG was benched and brought back in.

Regardless of JG or Bailey starting, we should dumb down the offense against Bama.
 
#47
#47
I agree with pretty much everything OP said except this is not a throwaway year ... but I digress.

I think starting JG and letting him take the beating against Bama's 1's and 2's and having already pre-determined to play Bailey the entire second half could work ... then use the bye week to get Bailey ready for the rest of the season. Once the game is out of hand, and it's obvious to all that both teams are just finishing the game, Saban will call off the dogs (ie blitzes) and go deep into the bench, giving Bailey a chance to play without running for his life. But if starting JG doesn't mean Bailey is taking over from the 2nd half on, then just start Bailey and get on with it.

Bailey has to be the guy going forward because JG's failures has sucked the life out of the entire team, and it was obvious after the 3 and out to start the 2nd half. The whole team just seemed to lay down, defense included.

That's just my two cents, which, along with everyone else's, will buy a Pepsi.
 
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#48
#48
tpsdave said:
You have to prepare ALL your quarterbacks to come in and perform to a standard. Ohio State won a national championship with its third string QB.
Click to expand...

For all the people who thinks CJP is a tough guy, he has a soft spot for his players IMO. Just go back and look how he has handled Banks, JG, Peterson, and probably others not as well made public. He has to put his head on in the next week and make it over rule his heart. JG has not cut it as a P5 QB at UT. No matter the OC excuse or any others, he's now had the same one two years in a row, he still plays about like he has all his previous years here. He is what he is, what you have seen is what you're going to get. Cut him loose and move on CJP, you went far beyond what any other college coach would have done to get him where he wanted to be. It's not you it's him.
 
#49
#49
My thoughts after hitting the Dickel and watching the tape..... is that I don't drink nearly enough.
 
#50
#50
As usual, this is a good post. However, I do totally disagree on one point. Short of Manning coming back, JG was going to be the starter regardless of how spring or a regular preseason would have gone at the QB position. Pruitt has said that repeatedly so maybe the best would still not have played.
 
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