Muffet McGraw stepping down

krichunaka

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I wasn't referring to anyone individually, but my "eye roll" comes from the suggestion that Ivey is at the advantage because the doesn't have to deal with the "on and off the court issues" (I don't think those were your words specifically) that Kellie is/has. But you did a lot of nice backpedaling in your diatribe there after the "powder keg that was brought to light in recent weeks." Unless my selective reading failed me?


What does Walz have to do with any of this? As I've said, you guys bring him up more often than I do. This is about Harper and Ivey, who I stated for the record (before Kellie was hired) I would have been very pleased with and that's why I'll follow her coaching career with great interest. In two days on the job, Ivey already has a more impressive recruiting win than Harper has had in over a year, does that impress you?



When "at least she didn't lose to any bad teams" is the bar, it's really not that hard to impress.




What has she accomplished? I give her credit for more or less meeting expectations, although I would like to have seen more improvement in the team through the season. The next elite prospect she lands will be her first. I know, I know, wait until they get here. Give Kellie time. And Walz isn't coming (still funny)...
I believe someone did suggest that Coach Ivey is at an advantage. By graduating a National Championship team, Notre Dame was put into a very similar situation to our 2009 team with new players, plus season-ending injuries. Next season will bring a more talented and experienced team to South Bend. They’ll be fine.

And, good for Coach Ivey to sign a highly-rated player. Good for you too, Darth, because, this gives you another chance to remind us that our Karoline, and now our Marta aren’t up to your high standards. Even better, you get to take another shot at Kellie. Just because.

My “odd” remark was due to your continuous nipping away at our coach’s “failures,” only to conveniently use that same experience as a resume enhancer when comparing the two. If Ivey wins more, sooner, then she’s the better coach ...just as you thought. If not, then of course, Kellie had the advantage with all that “experience.” So, you can’t lose. Ivey can’t lose. Only Kellie can. See what I mean? That’s just the way you are.
 

glv98

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IMO no question Ivey is inheriting a much better "cultural" situation than KJH did. Everyone and his Granny knew Ivey would be Muffett's successor. Maybe didn't expect it this soon, but all, most importantly current players and recruits, knew who their next coach would be. Also, it was someone familiar to them, with Ivey's presence around the program a couple of decades more recent than that of KJH. So just because of the much smoother transition, current talent level not withstanding, Ivey got a near perfect situation as far as player acceptance.

In retrospect, KJH biggest accomplishment was apparent success at reclaiming the culture after the agonizing , damaging, slow roll end of the CHW era. Obviously there have been a couple of recent blips, but it was never going to be perfect. Let's see how she handles setbacks and moves forward. I believe she will. It's on court stuff I'm way more worried about than her ability to run things off court.
 

Darth_Vol

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How come? They didn’t hire Holly Warlick.
Everyone and his Granny knew Ivey would be Muffett's successor. Maybe didn't expect it this soon, but all, most importantly current players and recruits, knew who their next coach would be. Also, it was someone familiar to them, with Ivey's presence around the program a couple of decades more recent than that of KJH. So just because of the much smoother transition, current talent level not withstanding, Ivey got a near perfect situation as far as player acceptance.
Sounds like Notre Dame hired their Holly Warlick...
 
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T_Vol376

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Sounds like Notre Dame hired their Holly Warlick...
You make a good point here. Not making a dig at Coach Ivey, Coach Harper, or Coach Warlick, but Ivey is walking into practically an identical situation as Holly did. She herself was a highly decorated player for ND, then was a longtime assistant to her former coach, now replacing former coach - a legend.

She better win - same as anybody else. (Not saying she won’t just pointing out that no matter who it is - former player, etc. you better win or you are gone.) Same holds true for Kellie. Time will tell for both.
 

Darth_Vol

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She better win - same as anybody else. (Not saying she won’t just pointing out that no matter who it is - former player, etc. you better win or you are gone.) Same holds true for Kellie. Time will tell for both.
Which was really the original point as everyone assumes I'm rooting for Kellie to fail. I think Ivey will be successful, but as we've seen great recruiters don't always make great head coaches. There is a learning curve for first time head coaches. And we can argue about "culture" all day but the fact remains the team still only won 13 games this season. Ivey, like Kellie, has her work cut out for her and it will be interesting to see how it plays out...
 

glv98

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Sounds like Notre Dame hired their Holly Warlick...
LOL yes I thought about that. If Ivey was the chosen successor bc of her loyalty and longevity to the program and not bc she's the best coaching choice, then yes, ND got their Holly. Maybe she's the sacrifical first coach after the legend who everyone knows has no chance to succeed. Then they'll go after Jeff Walz.
 

Amb3096

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LOL yes I thought about that. If Ivey was the chosen successor bc of her loyalty and longevity to the program and not bc she's the best coaching choice, then yes, ND got their Holly. Maybe she's the sacrifical first coach after the legend who everyone knows has no chance to succeed. Then they'll go after Jeff Walz.
Niele looks like a coach on the sideline; Holly never did. I think Niele has the presence to become a solid HC whereas Holly was always out of her league. Assuming she keeps her roster and incoming players intact, I think Niele will keep ND in the national picture without skipping a beat (Muffet already did that this year).
 

T_Vol376

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Which was really the original point as everyone assumes I'm rooting for Kellie to fail. I think Ivey will be successful, but as we've seen great recruiters don't always make great head coaches. There is a learning curve for first time head coaches. And we can argue about "culture" all day but the fact remains the team still only won 13 games this season. Ivey, like Kellie, has her work cut out for her and it will be interesting to see how it plays out...
These are just the facts of the matter. It doesn’t matter who you are or if you’ve had a long time association with the team, if you’ve helped build the empire, if your jersey hangs in the rafters. You better maintain the standard, win the games you are supposed to win, keep the respect of the team, or you are gone. For the record, I’m rooting for them both - well Kellie first and foremost because... Lady Vols.
 

volman128

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IMO no question Ivey is inheriting a much better "cultural" situation than KJH did. Everyone and his Granny knew Ivey would be Muffett's successor. Maybe didn't expect it this soon, but all, most importantly current players and recruits, knew who their next coach would be. Also, it was someone familiar to them, with Ivey's presence around the program a couple of decades more recent than that of KJH. So just because of the much smoother transition, current talent level not withstanding, Ivey got a near perfect situation as far as player acceptance.

In retrospect, KJH biggest accomplishment was apparent success at reclaiming the culture after the agonizing , damaging, slow roll end of the CHW era. Obviously there have been a couple of recent blips, but it was never going to be perfect. Let's see how she handles setbacks and moves forward. I believe she will. It's on court stuff I'm way more worried about than her ability to run things off court.
Ivey is more in the situation Holly was in (minus the Alzheimer's situation) vs. Kellie. If someone competent had been hired when Pat retired, we would stand a chance at not being in the situation we're in right now. Instead, we got incompetence personified in Holly.

I would've liked to have seen Ivey at Tennessee, which was never going to happen short of ND telling her she was never going to be the HC there. She has an 'it' factor as a coach, is young and vibrant, and is known for being ND's primary recruiter over multiple elite classes, in addition to being known as a terrific in-game coach and being able to coach up AA point guards. (Ironically, she and Kellie were both starting PGs on NC teams in college. But Kellie hasn't shown the ability to develop PGs like Niele has.) I'm really excited to see her in charge of ND, to be quite honest.

The whole timeline of Niele leaving last year is so odd, though. People talked last year of Ivey never coming here (and taking herself out of consideration of the UGA opening a few years ago) because she was the heir to the throne at ND, which was a fair and logical hypothesis. But then she left for the NBA and I thought ... how strange. I figured maybe she didn't want to be a HC, or maybe ND had told Beth Cunningham she was the next HC after Muffet retired, because maybe that's what Muffet wanted. Or maybe Niele just decided she wanted to make that big money in the NBA for several years before coming back to ND -- and who could blame her if that was the case. But clearly this was a spur of the moment thing by Muffet, either way. I really thought she'd be coaching ND for several more years.
 

volman128

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Niele looks like a coach on the sideline; Holly never did. I think Niele has the presence to become a solid HC whereas Holly was always out of her league. Assuming she keeps her roster and incoming players intact, I think Niele will keep ND in the national picture without skipping a beat (Muffet already did that this year).
Ironically, Holly was only ever made HC because she was the 'logical, safe' choice. Mickie DeMoss was associate HC over Holly until she left in 2003, and then when Holly was made associate HC (a title she got because of her longevity and loyalty), Nikki was clearly the superior coach, and of course left for UCLA a few years later and of course then got to LSU. Obviously the LV program values loyalty above all else. They will take their chances on a boring, safe pick vs. taking anything remotely resembling a gamble when it comes to hires for the program.

When it comes to ND, they did the opposite. Carol Owens has been with Muffet forever, but she clearly doesn't want to be a HC again. Niele literally left for ND just last year but they rewarded her with the position. Of course, Cunningham may not want to be a HC again (she was a HC at VCU for several years before being an assistant at ND), and it could've been agreed upon that Niele would coach for a few years in the NBA before coming back when Muffet retired, but that would be much less likely to ever happen at UT. I still think the fact that Niele ever left ND is strange in and of itself.
 

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