MLB Draft Talk (July 13th 6pm EDT & July 14th 11:30am EDT)

[Flogballs]

Was there any real leadership from the players that left?
Clearly first year players are an essential element in today's game... but I don't believe they can bring the championship glue that a core of C Mo, Burke, Sechrist and Kirby can add.

I can appreciate the principle here….

Missionaries vs Mercenaries

Missionaries - guys bought into the mission at UT and have a stake in the culture, growth, loyalty of the program. Not to say the mercenaries can’t be, but there’s a curve

 

[txbo]

I can appreciate the principle here….

Missionaries vs Mercenaries

Missionaries - guys bought into the mission at UT and have a stake in the culture, growth, loyalty of the program. Not to say the mercenaries can’t be, but there’s a curve

Yep. In today's game, I think you have to have both.

 

[malkmusvol]

I'm not trying to make a point about Bargo or anybody else. The 2022 team might be the greatest collection of college baseball talent to ever take the field together.... but they couldn't get to Omaha. It takes something special in the locker room to go all the way.... and I don't believe that first year players can provide that. They can certainly contribute in a big way but can't provide that special something.

"Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." Yogi Berra

2023 LSU laughs in your face. Do they win without Paul Skenes and Tommy Tanks? Even with Crews and Morgan they do not make it out of Omaha alive without first year guys. Great teams are all created in their own unique ways.

 

[volsagain]

Yep. In today's game, I think you have to have both.

Don't ever forget the amount of luck that is required in baseball. A ball hit 2 feet move in any direction or a pitch 2 inches in any direction can change a games outcome. The less talent you have the more luck is required. Players get hot and cold you win some and lose some it's baseball plan and simple. GBO

 

[txbo]

2023 LSU laughs in your face. Do they win without Paul Skenes and Tommy Tanks? Even with Crews and Morgan they do not make it out of Omaha alive without first year guys. Great teams are all created in their own unique ways.

Paul Skenes is a once in a generation pitcher. That LSU team doesn't sniff Omaha without him. Give me another example.

 

[txbo]

Don't ever forget the amount of luck that is required in baseball. A ball hit 2 feet move in any direction or a pitch 2 inches in any direction can change a games outcome. The less talent you have the more luck is required. Players get hot and cold you win some and lose some it's baseball plan and simple. GBO

True but luck determines the outcome of games... not seasons. If luck were that big of a factor, I'd wouldn't be interested in watching. Talent and determination create good luck.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Paul Skenes is a once in a generation pitcher. That LSU team doesn't sniff Omaha without him. Give me another example.

2025 LSU.

Anthony Eyanson
Daniel Dickinson
Chris Stanfield
Michael Braswell III
Luis Hernandez
Jacob Mayers
Zac Cowan
Dalton Beck

All guys that had varying degrees of impact on their championship who transferred in and could fit the bill of “mercenary” and not “missionary.”

 

[malkmusvol]

2025 LSU.

Anthony Eyanson
Daniel Dickinson
Chris Stanfield
Michael Braswell III
Luis Hernandez
Jacob Mayers
Zac Cowan
Dalton Beck

All guys that had varying degrees of impact on their championship who transferred in and could fit the bill of “mercenary” and not “missionary.”

Also 2024 Vols had Billy, Nate, AJ Causey, Stamos.

He will next ask for examples of what he is arguing from before the portal became a real thing.

I also hope he doesn't look at the portal's impact upon football and basketball national championships.

LOL. Buffoonery of the highest order.

 

[txbo]

2025 LSU.

Anthony Eyanson
Daniel Dickinson
Chris Stanfield
Michael Braswell III
Luis Hernandez
Jacob Mayers
Zac Cowan
Dalton Beck

All guys that had varying degrees of impact on their championship who transferred in and could fit the bill of “mercenary” and not “missionary.”

I don't know know what the leadership was like but nobody could argue their success. I'd actually say they out performed their talent.

 

[volsagain]

True but luck determines the outcome of games... not seasons. If luck were that big of a factor, I'd wouldn't be interested in watching. Talent and determination create good luck.

Without the bad luck the VOLS had this season the record and seeding for the tournament would have been much better. So many bad unforced errors cost this team a lot. AND it wasn't just one player.

 

[txbo]

2025 LSU.

Anthony Eyanson
Daniel Dickinson
Chris Stanfield
Michael Braswell III
Luis Hernandez
Jacob Mayers
Zac Cowan
Dalton Beck

All guys that had varying degrees of impact on their championship who transferred in and could fit the bill of “mercenary” and not “missionary.”

I never made the argument that our transfers didn't make an impact on our success this year. I even said said that our season would have probably sucked without them.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I never made the argument that our transfers didn't make an impact on our success this year. I even said said that our season would have probably sucked without them.

Yeah, but your point seems to be that you need leadership and “it” factor to win championships and that this crop of transfers at Tennessee lacked both of those which is why we didn’t win. I’m just pointing out an example of a team that was heavily reliant on transfers and “mercenaries” but still managed to achieve the ultimate goal of dog piling in Omaha.

 

[@1RBFjr]

I’m not much of a fan for forum arguments, but this one is better than the old ones over what Tennessee needs to get to Hoover or get past the first day in Hoover

 

[txbo]

Without the bad luck the VOLS had this season the record and seeding for the tournament would have been much better. So many bad unforced errors cost this team a lot. AND it wasn't just one player.

I don't consider that luck. We got a case of baseball herpes that spread throughout the team for a good portion of the year.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I’m not much of a fan for forum arguments, but this one is better than the old ones over what Tennessee needs to get to Hoover or get past the first day in Hoover

I wouldn’t say this is an argument. I respect the heck out of @txbo. I’m just trying to better understand his perspective about transfers. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but he’s got the right to have that opinion.

 

[txbo]

Yeah, but your point seems to be that you need leadership and “it” factor to win championships and that this crop of transfers at Tennessee lacked both of those which is why we didn’t win. I’m just pointing out an example of a team that was heavily reliant on transfers and “mercenaries” but still managed to achieve the ultimate goal of dog piling in Omaha.

I didn't say our transfers lacked anything. I simply said whatever leadership they provided wasn't enough to get this team to Omaha. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. I am of the opinion that it is more difficult for first year players to lead. I have no idea of the team chemistry of LSU's championship team but it certainly was successful.

 

[therickbol]

If your barometer is some unquantifiable measure known as "it" (what does "it" measure?), you'll have a hard time convincing anyone who disagrees with you.

Hey....I know "it" when I see it and you don't so there is no sense in arguing. I am always right.

 

[cncchris33]

I didn't say our transfers lacked anything. I simply said whatever leadership they provided wasn't enough to get this team to Omaha. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. I am of the opinion that it is more difficult for first year players to lead. I have no idea of the team chemistry of LSU's championship team but it certainly was successful.

Actually, it is an opinion. I could just as easily replace the word 'leadership' in your bolded statement with 'talent' and it would still be an opinion, and neither of us could prove it as fact. So what if we had 8 guys drafted on day 1. It wasn't enough to get us to Omaha.

 

[preacherman20]

Championships are won with a mixture of leadership and talent. But talented players are rarely true leaders. I’ve noticed the players that fans think are leaders by their play on the field are rarely leaders in the dugout. Many times their drama is polarizing but you need both talent and leaders. I’m reminded of the saying. If you want to know if you are a leader, look behind you. If there is no one following you, then you are just on a hike. Most great athletes are just on a hike and the fans are cheering them on but their teammates are annoyed by them. The average fan will never know who is the leaders and who are the annoying ones.
I will say that pitchers can rarely be team leaders and almost never starters.

 

[taylorvol]

I'm not taking a shot at those kids. Clearly they are very talented players that excelled on the field. Transfers will never add that special something that it takes to go all the way.

. This. Right. Here. Need a delicate balance of 2 and 3 year players with a few portal transfers to plug the gaps from the MLB draft.

 

[taylorvol]

Championships are won with a mixture of leadership and talent. But talented players are rarely true leaders. I’ve noticed the players that fans think are leaders by their play on the field are rarely leaders in the dugout. Many times their drama is polarizing but you need both talent and leaders. I’m reminded of the saying. If you want to know if you are a leader, look behind you. If there is no one following you, then you are just on a hike. Most great athletes are just on a hike and the fans are cheering them on but their teammates are annoyed by them. The average fan will never know who is the leaders and who are the annoying ones.
I will say that pitchers can rarely be team leaders and almost never starters.

Yes sir. And I can’t imagine how grating and annoying it is on the core players when they see fans drooling over a Jeremy Giambi type of player who is all about himself and his stats. Team guys and glue guys are so underrated and under appreciated by most fans. Give me more of the Hunter Ensleys and Cal Starks…

 

[taylorvol]

Sounds like a man with knowledge of some of the clubhouse conflicts this past year.

Sometime’s I’d rather not know how some of the sausage is made. It’s definitely a business and the clubhouse can be messy, but I guess the same could be said for most boardrooms and offices. . I firmly believe that you have to be a good teammate to be a good leader. It’s not all about performance on the field.

 

[taylorvol]

I disagree, we don’t win a national championship without a core of transfers that had huge moments in 2024. If this is about Bargo and wanting him back next year, he’s also a transfer. I guess I’m just confused what the argument even is right now. If it’s claiming we need leadership for next year, I’m not sure Bargo is the solution. He didn’t strike me as one of the more vocal players on last year’s team.

CTV commented several times how Bargo became more vocal and was getting in the ear of his teammates. I personally saw it myself.

 

[taylorvol]

I feel like leadership isn’t a tangible thing that is easy to measure. Yes, Christian Moore was very vocal and loud and it was easy to see his impact on the TV, but since I’m not in the dugout I can’t say with confidence if other forms of leadership were present.

Tony is ride or die for Doyle and Fischer so I can’t imagine he’d be as vocally supportive of them if he felt they were poor leaders and didn’t have the skills and intangibles needed to lead a team to a championship. It didn’t work out for us this year, but it didn’t work out for Arkansas either who had a ton of older players on that roster and a lot of continuity on that team.

CTV is going to praise high performers on the field. Just because Doyle and Fischer are elite players, it doesn’t make them leaders. 2 hugely different things. I think it’s exceptionally difficult for a once a week starting pitcher to be a leader. Fischer is an elite talent, extremely confident and comfortable in his own skin, but he’s absolutely no leader, but was truly an outstanding player. I could add specifics but I won’t…GBO!

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Yes sir. And I can’t imagine how grating and annoying it is on the core players when they see fans drooling over a Jeremy Giambi type of player who is all about himself and his stats. Team guys and glue guys are so underrated and under appreciated by most fans. Give me more of the Hunter Ensleys and Cal Starks…

I guess I’m not entirely certain how to formulate my thoughts in this very nuanced discussion, but I just disagree with what seems to be the underlying thesis of this discussion that transfers or “mercenaries” as some have called them do not buy into the mission of the team or the culture here and are actively part of the reason Tennessee did not reach Omaha again this year. I fully believe from what I watch that very few transfers Tennessee has taken in have not bought into Tony’s mission or the culture he has built here.


I just fundamentally disagree with the idea that if this team had more leadership our season would have been different. Or that because Andrew Fischer or Liam Doyle weren’t “leaders” that this team failed. To draw a line from last year’s team to this year’s team and claim that this year’s team failed because we didn’t have enough continuity and that we relied too much on transfers or “mercenaries” seems to almost rewrite history that the 2024 team does not win a national title if not for some very important transfers that not only bought into the culture but did so in a short amount of time.

It just has felt like there is this unfair opinion percolating underneath this conversation that these guys have less value or should not be as cherished by Vol Nation because they didn’t choose to commit to us immediately out of high school. I just didn’t like some of the implications being thrown around.