MLB Draft Talk (July 13th 6pm EDT & July 14th 11:30am EDT)

#726
#726
cncchris33 said:
That's not really proof of anything. They did everything in their power. Peyton Manning didn't win a national championship. I guess he wasn't a good leader, but Tee Martin was?
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I think that just shows that Tee Martin had something special.
 
#727
#727
txbo said:
I'm not taking a shot at those kids. Clearly they are very talented players that excelled on the field. Transfers will never add that special something that it takes to go all the way.

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Amick? Causey? Stamos? Snead?

We don’t win a championship without those 4

Not to mention the guys that came in from JUCO from that team
 
#729
#729
txbo said:
I'm not taking a shot at those kids. Clearly they are very talented players that excelled on the field. Transfers will never add that special something that it takes to go all the way.

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I disagree, we don’t win a national championship without a core of transfers that had huge moments in 2024. If this is about Bargo and wanting him back next year, he’s also a transfer. I guess I’m just confused what the argument even is right now. If it’s claiming we need leadership for next year, I’m not sure Bargo is the solution. He didn’t strike me as one of the more vocal players on last year’s team.
 
#730
#730
txbo said:
I think that just shows that Tee Martin had something special.
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Meaning Peyton didn't? Got it. 👍

Every comment you present is making team sports very individual-focused. Leaders lead, but they dont play every possession at every position. Good leaders exist on both good and bad teams. You'd have us believe that if leadership doesn't produce titles, then leadership didn't exist or was ineffective. Talent still matters. So does a bit of luck.
 
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#731
#731
cncchris33 said:
Meaning Peyton didn't? Got it. 👍

Every comment you present is making team sports very individual-focused. Leaders lead, but they dont play every possession at every position. Good leaders exist on both good and bad teams. You'd have us believe that if leadership doesn't produce titles, then leadership didn't exist or was ineffective. Talent still matters. So does a bit of luck.
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We had 8 guys drafted on day one. The talent was there.
 
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#732
#732
TheMookieMonster said:
I disagree, we don’t win a national championship without a core of transfers that had huge moments in 2024. If this is about Bargo and wanting him back next year, he’s also a transfer. I guess I’m just confused what the argument even is right now. If it’s claiming we need leadership for next year, I’m not sure Bargo is the solution. He didn’t strike me as one of the more vocal players on last year’s team.
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I'm not trying to make a point about Bargo or anybody else. The 2022 team might be the greatest collection of college baseball talent to ever take the field together.... but they couldn't get to Omaha. It takes something special in the locker room to go all the way.... and I don't believe that first year players can provide that. They can certainly contribute in a big way but can't provide that special something.

"Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." Yogi Berra
 
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#736
#736
txbo said:
I'm not trying to make a point about Bargo or anybody else. The 2022 team might be the greatest collection of college baseball talent to ever take the field together.... but they couldn't get to Omaha. It takes something special in the locker room to go all the way.... and I don't believe that first year players can provide that. They can certainly contribute in a big way but can't provide that special something.

"Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." Yogi Berra
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It seems that Tony would disagree with you there otherwise he wouldn’t have jettisoned our entire pitching staff to bring in more talented players that will be first-year in the system either as a high school player or transfer portal commit.

To be clear, I’m not saying that leadership and continuity aren’t important in championship teams. They very much are. But that leadership can come from many different places.

Next year’s team also isn’t going to be void of continuity. Marin, Newstrom, Clark, and Abernathy are all going to be major contributes that will be taking similar steps up in responsibility just like Dylan Dreiling and Kavares Tears did as Sophomores. Dean Curley was a true freshmen on that championship team as well.
 
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#738
#738
TheMookieMonster said:
It seems that Tony would disagree with you there otherwise he wouldn’t have jettisoned our entire pitching staff to bring in more talented players that will be first-year in the system either as a high school player or transfer portal commit.

To be clear, I’m not saying that leadership and continuity aren’t important in championship teams. They very much are. But that leadership can come from many different places.

Next year’s team also isn’t going to be void of continuity. Marin, Newstrom, Clark, and Abernathy are all going to be major contributes that will be taking similar steps up in responsibility just like Dylan Dreiling and Kavares Tears did as Sophomores. Dean Curley was a true freshmen on that championship team as well.
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Was there any real leadership from the players that left?
Clearly first year players are an essential element in today's game... but I don't believe they can bring the championship glue that a core of C Mo, Burke, Sechrist and Kirby can add.
 
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#740
#740
txbo said:
LOL. That has all the rationale that can only come from a child or the female persuasion.
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LOL all you want...It's the same level of rationale that you've presented to this point.

You have essentially said that unless a team makes it to Omaha, that team had no leadership. You're taking team sports and judging success based on the contributions, tangible or intangible, of specific individuals. Liam Doyle can't make the bullpen not blow a lead he spotted them. Andrew Fischer can't get on base in every game and then ask for a ghost man on 1B to go take Dalton Bargo's AB, as well. Gavin Kilen can't cover 2B and SS in the field. Those guys did their part on the field. Others didn't. They led by example, played their butts off, and produced. A lot of the incumbents didn't. I dont know what to tell you.
 
#741
#741
txbo said:
Was there any real leadership from the players that left?
Clearly first year players are an essential element in today's game... but I don't believe they can bring the championship glue that a core of C Mo, Burke, Sechrist and Kirby can add.
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I feel like leadership isn’t a tangible thing that is easy to measure. Yes, Christian Moore was very vocal and loud and it was easy to see his impact on the TV, but since I’m not in the dugout I can’t say with confidence if other forms of leadership were present.

Tony is ride or die for Doyle and Fischer so I can’t imagine he’d be as vocally supportive of them if he felt they were poor leaders and didn’t have the skills and intangibles needed to lead a team to a championship. It didn’t work out for us this year, but it didn’t work out for Arkansas either who had a ton of older players on that roster and a lot of continuity on that team.
 
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#742
#742
TheMookieMonster said:
I feel like leadership isn’t a tangible thing that is easy to measure. Yes, Christian Moore was very vocal and loud and it was easy to see his impact on the TV, but since I’m not in the dugout I can’t say with confidence if other forms of leadership were present.

Tony is ride or die for Doyle and Fischer so I can’t imagine he’d be as vocally supportive of them if he felt they were poor leaders and didn’t have the skills and intangibles needed to lead a team to a championship. It didn’t work out for us this year, but it didn’t work out for Arkansas either who had a ton of older players on that roster and a lot of continuity on that team.
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Exactly. It isn't nearly as black and white as that poster is trying to make it. Sometimes leadership pushes you over the top when everyone is pulling their weight on the field. Sometimes it fails when multiple guys are in slumps and you run up against a good team playing their best on their home field. Sometimes you have great leadership and great talent, and things just dont go your way in a make-or-break moment. It happens, but it isn't proof-positive that leadership does/doesn't exist.
 
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#743
#743
TheMookieMonster said:
I feel like leadership isn’t a tangible thing that is easy to measure. Yes, Christian Moore was very vocal and loud and it was easy to see his impact on the TV, but since I’m not in the dugout I can’t say with confidence if other forms of leadership were present.

Tony is ride or die for Doyle and Fischer so I can’t imagine he’d be as vocally supportive of them if he felt they were poor leaders and didn’t have the skills and intangibles needed to lead a team to a championship. It didn’t work out for us this year, but it didn’t work out for Arkansas either who had a ton of older players on that roster and a lot of continuity on that team.
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Again, I didn't say they were "poor leaders". I'm just saying they didn't provide that special "it" factor. Going simply by results.
 
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#744
#744
txbo said:
Again, I didn't say they "poor leaders". I'm just saying they didn't provide that special "it" factor. Going simply by results.
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We’ll just agree to disagree. Championships are part luck. I don’t know how you personally are measuring the “it” factor but I’d say Gilbert, Beck, Tidwell, etc. all had “it” and still didn’t win a championship.

It’s easy in hindsight to say a particular player didn’t have “it” instead of in the moment. I’m a bit surprised you are so cemented in your fairly negative perception of those guys. You are normally extremely positive and level-headed about these things but you seem to almost have a less than favorable opinion about them.
 
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#745
#745
txbo said:
Again, I didn't say they were "poor leaders". I'm just saying they didn't provide that special "it" factor. Going simply by results.
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If your barometer is some unquantifiable measure known as "it" (what does "it" measure?), you'll have a hard time convincing anyone who disagrees with you.
 
#746
#746
TheMookieMonster said:
We’ll just agree to disagree. Championships are part luck. I don’t know how you personally are measuring the “it” factor but I’d say Gilbert, Beck, Tidwell, etc. all had “it” and still didn’t win a championship.

It’s easy in hindsight to say a particular player didn’t have “it” instead of in the moment. I’m a bit surprised you are so cemented in your fairly negative perception of those guys. You are normally extremely positive and level-headed about these things but you seem to almost have a less than favorable opinion about them.
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I don't have a negative opinion about them. Without them this would have been a rough year. That 2022 team had arguably the most talent of any baseball team to ever take a college field.... but they did not have "it" between the ears. They beat themselves because they could not control their emotions... and baseball is a mental game.
 
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#747
#747
TheMookieMonster said:
I feel like leadership isn’t a tangible thing that is easy to measure. Yes, Christian Moore was very vocal and loud and it was easy to see his impact on the TV, but since I’m not in the dugout I can’t say with confidence if other forms of leadership were present.

Tony is ride or die for Doyle and Fischer so I can’t imagine he’d be as vocally supportive of them if he felt they were poor leaders and didn’t have the skills and intangibles needed to lead a team to a championship. It didn’t work out for us this year, but it didn’t work out for Arkansas either who had a ton of older players on that roster and a lot of continuity on that team.
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I’m with you here. That 2022 team just so happened to play their worst 2 games of the year against a really hot ND team. Saying that didn’t have “it” when they are arguably the greatest college baseball team is something.

If it weren’t for check swing going our way (the correct way imo obviously), all those guys he is talking about wouldn’t have “it” either.

Winning a championship in baseball is almost as much luck as it is skill. Hardest sport to win one by far. Fischer, Doyle, Kilen all did their part for sure
 
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#748
#748
cncchris33 said:
Meaning Peyton didn't? Got it. 👍

Every comment you present is making team sports very individual-focused. Leaders lead, but they dont play every possession at every position. Good leaders exist on both good and bad teams. You'd have us believe that if leadership doesn't produce titles, then leadership didn't exist or was ineffective. Talent still matters. So does a bit of luck.
Click to expand...
Peyton's lack of leadership caused Tennessee's defense to give up an average of 42 ppg in the 3 games he started against Florida. Tee's leadership caused Tennessee's defense to only allow 17 points to Florida in 1998. Plus, there was the 64 yards passing he had in that game.
 
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#750
#750
NighthawkVol said:
Peyton's lack of leadership caused Tennessee's defense to give up an average of 42 ppg in the 3 games he started against Florida. Tee's leadership caused Tennessee's defense to only allow 17 points to Florida in 1998. Plus, there was the 64 yards passing he had in that game.
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But Tee had IT!!!
 
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