Miles or Jones

#177
#177
ajvol01 said:
So it doesn't matter? Sounds like an opinion to me.
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Of course it's an opinion. But when you're SEC royalty, you can point to facts like the biggest stadium in the SEC (at the time) and the biggest recruiting budget in the SEC to show that Fulmer didn't inherit the poor, downtrodden, resource-challenged program that ajvol wants you to believe he did.
 
#179
#179
VKAman said:
Of course it's an opinion. But when you're SEC royalty, you can point to facts like the biggest stadium in the SEC (at the time) and the biggest recruiting budget in the SEC to show that Fulmer didn't inherit the poor, downtrodden, resource-challenged program that ajvol wants you to believe he did.
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I never said any of that.

I was saying that Fulmer's situation at Tennessee was very similar to Miles at LSU, but LSU was a better program in 2005 than Tennessee was in 93.

The lack of in-state talent ultimately hurt Fulmer, but Miles didn't have to recruit nationally at LSU - Louisiana has plenty of talent for LSU and most go to Baton Rouge.
 
#180
#180
Volsfaninva917 said:
People are going to get upset but this is a real possibility.
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Interesting quotes from Butch today. ..."Coaching in the SEC takes years off your life"..."every morning is like 4th and inches in the National Championship game"....
...sounds like someone who may not want that type of life style. ...
 
#181
#181
You don't want Miles, trust me. The only thing good about him is that he will occasionally call a fake FG or punt. Well, OK, that and the fact they use a fullback. But that's it. You would get sick of his BS non-answers very fast.
 
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#182
#182
VKAman said:
Oklahoma State was 3-8 when he got there. Fulmer was never put in a situation like that one.
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Fulmer inherited a team that was 27-8-2 over the previous 3 seasons...(75.7%). In his first three season he upped the winning percentage to 80.5% so he did improve what he inherited. But he didn't have to build a program that was anywhere near where Dooley left us...
 
#183
#183
'Boro-vol said:
Miles...experience and track record count.

Not even close...shouldn't be a question.

Not to worry though....our administration would never hire somebody with that much juice.

Butch will be fine as long as we temper our expectations. He recruits very well, runs a clean program, and is a great ambassador for our school. He's just never going to win at a high level in my opinion. 8-9 wins and a bowl game is about what can be expected...not much more.
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Agreed, seen nothing to make me believe he will be anything better than average.
 
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#184
#184
ajvol01 said:
I never said any of that.

I was saying that Fulmer's situation at Tennessee was very similar to Miles at LSU, but LSU was a better program in 2005 than Tennessee was in 93.

The lack of in-state talent ultimately hurt Fulmer, but Miles didn't have to recruit nationally at LSU - Louisiana has plenty of talent for LSU and most go to Baton Rouge.
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And Miles had more success--more championship game appearances, more top-5 rankings--in less time.

Fulmer was hurt more by better coaching competition than by geography. Miles held his own against the same coaches that dominated Fulmer.

Either way, I doubt Butch even has the success Fulmer had, so this really isn't even a debate.
 
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#185
#185
VKAman said:
And Miles had more success--more championship game appearances, more top-5 rankings--in less time.

Fulmer was hurt more by better coaching competition than by geography. Miles held his own against the same coaches that dominated Fulmer.

Either way, I doubt Butch even has the success Fulmer had, so this really isn't even a debate.
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Ironically Miles 2nd championship appearance in 2011 was shortly after John Chavis joined his staff.

Chavis openly said he would have loved to have the same level of talent at Tennessee - he had more at LSU.

It's about talent and depth.
 
#186
#186
ajvol01 said:
Ironically Miles 2nd championship appearance in 2011 was shortly after John Chavis joined his staff.

Chavis openly said he would have loved to have the same level of talent at Tennessee - he had more at LSU.

It's about talent and depth.
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He had just as much talent at Tennessee in the late '90s, until other teams hired actual good coaches and Fulmer stopped winning recruiting battles (and evaluated players poorly).
 
#189
#189
VKAman said:
He had just as much talent at Tennessee in the late '90s, until other teams hired actual good coaches and Fulmer stopped winning recruiting battles (and evaluated players poorly).
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Victim of what I call the Mack Brown syndrome
 
#192
#192
ajvol01 said:
Texas HS football talent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tennessee HS football talent
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Tennessee has always recruited extremely well, and it's always been mostly from out of state. The fixation on Tennessee's HS talent level is way overblown.
 
#195
#195
VKAman said:
It's a dumb excuse to try to make for Fulmer. Over the first decade of his tenure he had, at worst, top-2 talent in the SEC and made it to the title game only once.
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I'm actually not making excuses for Fulmer.

Just saying Miles hasn't done significantly better based on the natural recruiting base in Louisiana.

90+% of elite talent @ LSU is from Louisiana.
 
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#196
#196
VKAman said:
Tennessee has always recruited extremely well, and it's always been mostly from out of state. The fixation on Tennessee's HS talent level is way overblown.
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Recruiting nationally is much harder than in-state. Makes a coaches job harder. As such it is harder to maintain talent at Tennessee than LSU, Georgia & Florida.
 
#198
#198
ajvol01 said:
I'm actually not making excuses for Fulmer.

Just saying Miles hasn't done significantly better based on the natural recruiting base in Louisiana.

90+% of elite talent @ LSU is from Louisiana.
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Both had elite talent. Miles did more with it.

It would be harder for Miles to recruit to Tennessee than LSU, but he's done a good job of hiring elite recruiters as assistants. With that, a strong program, and the aforementioned biggest recruiting budget, he'd be fine and certainly better than, say, 2008 Fulmer.
 
#199
#199
VKAman said:
Both had elite talent. Miles did more with it.

It would be harder for Miles to recruit to Tennessee than LSU, but he's done a good job of hiring elite recruiters as assistants. With that, a strong program, and the aforementioned biggest recruiting budget, he'd be fine and certainly better than, say, 2008 Fulmer.
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Your opinion. I disagree. Fulmer's 2008 class was shaping up to be special before he got axed - Tajh Boyd & Bryce Petty could've fixed a lot of the problems.

His biggest mistake was the Clawson hire. Really bad timing and fit.

Les hasn't recruited nationally so I guess we'll never know.
 
#200
#200
ajvol01 said:
I'm actually not making excuses for Fulmer.

Just saying Miles hasn't done significantly better based on the natural recruiting base in Louisiana.

90+% of elite talent @ LSU is from Louisiana.
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I totally agree. It would have been something to see what Fulmer, Cutcliffe and Chavis would have done in their prime at Auburn, Georgia, LSU or an SEC school with a built-in mega recruiting base. They ranged far and wide to get talent and did exceptionally well - but Chief is correct - there is no comparison to the strong deep south recruiting bases to Tennessee. That is one reason the coach-envy fetish has many perils at Tennessee - few top level coaches will take on the challenge with the limited recruiting base. Vols are extremely lucky to have Butch Jones. Tennessee has to have an exceptional recruiter to compete which they had with Fulmer and now have with Jones.
 
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