Mike Leach describes conversations with Tennessee in 2017: 'It was like something out of Shakespeare'

#76
#76
05_never_again said:
IMO, he's never taken one of the big time jobs because he doesn't want to schmooze and get in with the good ole boy network that runs those schools. He wants to coach and sit in his office and draw up plays.
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It's more than that. The "good ole boy network" doesn't want him. He's a threat. He was the most popular figure on campus at Texas Tech. He's more powerful than them and that scares them. He's unwilling to kiss their butts and they don't like that.

Of course, that was the problem with our program. Our coaching hires tended to be determined by how much a coach was willing to kiss Haslam's butt.
 
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#77
#77
Behr said:
His record verses Bama is 0-8.

Several regulars around here never said he blows, just that they think he's overrated and think Pruitt will have a higher ceiling. Still can't figure out why you get so tore up over it.
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Not to speak for @The Original Fade, I would assume that because after 3 straight coaching searches where we hired 3 guys not ready for the big-time, we had a chance to hire a guy that had successfully coached big-boy college football before. Instead of aggressively going after that guy, we sat on our hands and let a big rival swoop in and get him when their first option turned them down. We sat on our hands because the guy our decision makers wanted all alone (Schiano) was much cheaper. Our struggling rival got stronger while we were a laughingstock for 2 weeks....
 
#78
#78
BigOrangeMojo said:
Not to speak for @The Original Fade, I would assume that because after 3 straight coaching searches where we hired 3 guys not ready for the big-time, we had a chance to hire a guy that had successfully coached big-boy college football before. Instead of aggressively going after that guy, we sat on our hands and let a big rival swoop in and get him when their first option turned them down. We sat on our hands because the guy our decision makers wanted all alone (Schiano) was much cheaper. Our struggling rival got stronger while we were a laughingstock for 2 weeks....
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If you really want a stomach churner...supposedly Jimmy Sexton tried very hard to match Jimbo with UT when Jimbo was going through his divorce and having issues with FSU boosters. UT did not want Fisher, supposedly for the same reason being that he's too big to control. Does anyone think Bama boosters and AD control Saban, or the UGA people control Kirby? If you really want to attract a top candidate these days you have to give the free hand.
 
#79
#79
Jack Burton said:
The pirate would have given Smart and Saban fits every game.
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Leach is a good coach no doubt but during all of his time at TTU, he only had one great season in 2008. 2008 was a shared Big 12 title IIRC as well. All of his pass happy offenses are great but the teams he coached never saw post season success. Lots of yards & stats but no hardware. Additionally, he has only had one good season at WSU in 7 years (2018). PAC 12 seems to be a good fit for him. I do give him props for the rebuild of WSU though. I just don’t see how he could enter the SEC and have more or equaled success when the teams for the most part have better defenses and superior athletes compared to the BIG 12 or PAC 12. Pruitt may or may not be the answer, but I highly doubt leach could have taken UT to back to the promised land. Is Pruitt as accomplished as Leach? No but he does know what it takes to win a natty in the SEC.
 
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#82
#82
PEPPERJAX said:
Leach is a good coach no doubt but during all of his time at TTU, he only had one great season in 2008. 2008 was a shared Big 12 title IIRC as well. All of his pass happy offenses are great but the teams he coached never saw post season success. Lots of yards & stats but no hardware. Additionally, he has only had one good season at WSU in 7 years (2018). PAC 12 seems to be a good fit for him. I do give him props for the rebuild of WSU though. I just don’t see how he could enter the SEC and have more or equaled success when the teams for the most part have better defenses and superior athletes compared to the BIG 12 or PAC 12. Pruitt may or may not be the answer, but I highly doubt leach could have taken UT to back to the promised land. Is Pruitt as accomplished as Leach? No but he does know what it takes to win a natty in the SEC.
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I think there is an assumption that Leach would use an SEC roster and not import all his players from WSU. There lies the intrigue. SEC athletes running the Air Raid. Basically, this is what Oklahoma has done under Reilly and they took UGA to 2OT and might have beat Bama last year if it weren't for spotting the Tide 28 in first quarter. Seems like a better option than trying to copy the Saban process with lesser talent and hoping that we can peak whenever he and Smart decide to retire. By the way, Smart is younger than Pruitt so it may be a long wait.
 
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#83
#83
DiderotsGhost said:
It's more than that. The "good ole boy network" doesn't want him. He's a threat. He was the most popular figure on campus at Texas Tech. He's more powerful than them and that scares them. He's unwilling to kiss their butts and they don't like that.

Of course, that was the problem with our program. Our coaching hires tended to be determined by how much a coach was willing to kiss Haslam's butt.
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A successful football coach is going to be the most popular figure on campus at any school, whether they are run by a good ole boy network or not. Jimbo and Tom Herman will be (might already be) the most popular figures on their campuses, and their two schools are the epitome of a good ole boy network. Every school is run by that to an extent.

I just think Leach does nothing to endear himself to those people, and as a result of that they don't really consider him. Kind of like Chip Kelly - he isn't into the schmoozing that a place like Florida would demand, so he goes to UCLA where people frankly don't care all that much about college football. He enjoyed the fact that at Oregon there was really only one booster you had to play nice with (Phil Knight) and while they do have fans, they aren't going to demand you be a quasi-politician.
 
#84
#84
Behr said:
Meh, I'm probably the only one but Im glad that didn't happen. I would have taken him over Pruitt at the time, but I'm happy with Pruitt now.
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You aren't the only one Behr, I have never cared for his coaching style. Seems like he should be ring leader in a circus, not a football coach.
 
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#85
#85
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Leach would have been fun and given great press conferences. He would have run it up on some people and we'd have routinely had more wins than losses, but he'd have regularly come up short against the big boys. That's his MO, it wouldn't have been good enough for Tennessee fans. We may not be any better with CJP, but at least we don't know his ceiling in advance.
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I think you have figured it out, we let CJP coach the team and Leach can do his pressers after every game. We know how Pruitt hates the pressers.
 
#86
#86
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I think there is an assumption that Leach would use an SEC roster and not import all his players from WSU. There lies the intrigue. SEC athletes running the Air Raid. Basically, this is what Oklahoma has done under Reilly and they took UGA to 2OT and might have beat Bama last year if it weren't for spotting the Tide 28 in first quarter. Seems like a better option than trying to copy the Saban process with lesser talent and hoping that we can peak whenever he and Smart decide to retire. By the way, Smart is younger than Pruitt so it may be a long wait.
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I get that but Leach never really “tore it up” in the world of recruiting either. I believe he could have attracted some big-time athletes to the hill but remain skeptical that he would have recruited at a high enough level in order to compete with the upper echelon of the SEC. Pruitt showed in his first full class last year that he can reel in some highly rated studs to UT. Landing Chaney was the biggest (no pun intended) get so far though. CJP knows defense and he hired arguably one of the best offensive minds in the game. I will roll with that the next couple of years and see what happens. BTW, Leach is not as good as Lincoln Reilly.
 
#89
#89
dduncan4163 said:
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/t...017-it-was-like-something-out-of-shakespeare/




I'm happy with CJP but I was doing cartwheels when it looked like the Pirate was heading to Knoxville. I would have loved to see his offense in the SEC.
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Hell me and Freak were both doing cartwheels over the possibility of him coming to Rockytop...Such an exciting offense and certainly the most entertaining coach in the business...Orange and white pirate flags on the VOL navy would've been epic..Not to mention from some of the posts on the other schools boards they were actually frightened about him coming to UT and having to stop that offense...Oh what could've been.
 
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#90
#90
SGMVols said:
And when he faces the top teams in his conference he gets shut down anyway. Only scored 15 in their loss at home to Washington last year, which was also Leach’s sixth loss in a row to them.
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It's not like Washington is some kind of pushover...People tend to forget Chris Peterson is their coach...Guy is amazing.
 
#91
#91
a vol n tears said:
I think Leach would have been successful in Knoxville. He has a great offensive mind and his defenses are under rated because everyone thinks of his offense. With SEC talent he could recruit, plus being an excellent developer of talent, he would have been a nightmare match up for opponents. As far as fans saying you can't out score everyone, look at every team that has beaten Ala in the past 5 - 7 years and you will see they are almost always beaten by high scoring teams. Nobody out defenses them.
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His offense would have been overwhelmed by SEC defenses and the talent on defenses in the SEC. He's so dangerous on offense, he's won how many P5 conference and national championships again?
 
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#92
#92
Leach would have been entertaining for sure. The offense would have been better than what we saw last year (hardly an accomplishment). I have doubts that over the long haul, he would be successful here. I also believe that if Currie/Haslam were still in charge of the program, it would be a matter of time before things came crashing down. You have to be blind to not see that horrific leadership within the Athletic Department and University have been the major factor in our decline.
 
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#93
#93
I don't want Leach as a coach. But as the game announcer, man, would he be so much more fun to listen to the Kesling.
 
#94
#94
DiderotsGhost said:
I don't think we're on the same page at all here.

Mike Leach could've won a national title here. I'm not endorsing Mike Leach because I think he wins 8 games. I'm saying he could win a natty at the right program.

The argument against him is weak. It's basically "Air Raid doesn't work" and "Leach has never won the big one."

...Mike Leach wins 11 games while getting recruiting classes ranked in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. It's not like Mike Leach has ever been competing with top talent. The closest he came was at Texas Tech in 2008 when he had Michael Crabtree and he beat Texas, went to a Cotton Bowl, and went 11-2. He's had even less talent at WSU than he had at Texas Tech.

Last year, WSU was ranked #65 in recruiting. Rutgers was #64. Vandy was #59.

In 2017, WSU was ranked #44, behind Rutgers at #42, and a few spots ahead of Illinois (#46) and Duke (#47).

If Mike Leach wins 8-11 games with talent in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, imagine what he'd do with top 10 talent?

...

So I don't agree with the premise that Mike Leach couldn't win big. I think the case is mostly based on people not analyzing the details and *ASSUMING* that the Air Raid is "NOT REAL FOOTBALL" or some other nonsense.

....
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DG, I'm going to focus on the part of your post that applies to my perspective on Leach. I've never said "Air Raid good" or "Air Raid bad," so I'm ignoring that part. The part of your response that applies here is "Leach has never won the big one," which is pretty much exactly my argument.

Your counter to that argument is, in a nutshell (I've copied all the pertinent bits for easy reference), "but he had sub-SEC talent at those places."

My counter to your counter is, "but he was playing against sub-SEC talent, too [the B12 and then PAC teams]...and he still never got to a conference championship game." In other words, his playing fields in the B12 and PAC were at one tier, but they were level playing fields. For there.

And the playing field would be at a higher tier in the SEC, for all teams--us and our opponents. So, sure, we can say that he would be able to recruit SEC talent if he were coaching at Tennessee (we can't know for sure, because he has never recruited at this tier). But he would be competing for conference titles against other teams who also have SEC talent.

In short, he wouldn't have it any easier in the SEC. So the valid conclusion one can draw from his 17 years as a Power 5 head coach--and extrapolate to the hypothetical of him coaching at Tennessee or another SEC school--is that, he's Richt-like. Often close, never quite there. Never quite a champion.

I don't see any reason to believe that would change if he were imported into the Southeastern Conference.

And so we would run him out of town come the 4th or 5th year without a trip to Atlanta. Fact of our nature, and of Leach's.
 
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#95
#95
I would have had a very hard time hating Leach. In addition to being a helluva coach, he’s hilarious and likable.

I guess if he kicked UF’s butt enough times I would have grown to dislike him, but man would he have been a great/fun addition to the SEC.
 
#97
#97
DiderotsGhost said:
I don't think we're on the same page at all here.

Mike Leach could've won a national title here. I'm not endorsing Mike Leach because I think he wins 8 games. I'm saying he could win a natty at the right program.

The argument against him is weak. It's basically "Air Raid doesn't work" and "Leach has never won the big one." But the first is categorically untrue; the NFL is now filled with Air Raid style offenses where the QB is throwing 70%+ of the time.

And Mike Leach wins 11 games while getting recruiting classes ranked in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. It's not like Mike Leach has ever been competing with top talent. The closest he came was at Texas Tech in 2008 when he had Michael Crabtree and he beat Texas, went to a Cotton Bowl, and went 11-2. He's had even less talent at WSU than he had at Texas Tech.

Last year, WSU was ranked #65 in recruiting. Rutgers was #64. Vandy was #59.

In 2017, WSU was ranked #44, behind Rutgers at #42, and a few spots ahead of Illinois (#46) and Duke (#47).

If Mike Leach wins 8-11 games with talent in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, imagine what he'd do with top 10 talent? And the idea that he's a weak recruiter is also false. He actually significantly improved recruting at both Texas Tech and Wash State. It's just that Lubbock, TX and Pullman, WA are not exactly "destinations." He's taken two of the toughest P5 jobs and succeeded wildly.

So I don't agree with the premise that Mike Leach couldn't win big. I think the case is mostly based on people not analyzing the details and *ASSUMING* that the Air Raid is "NOT REAL FOOTBALL" or some other nonsense.

Mike Leach would have similar success to Steve Spurrier at the right SEC program. He'd been a perfect fit at Tennessee. But it would've taken him 3-4 years to get rolling.

Nothing against Pruitt. I'm optimistic about Pruitt, but there are very few coaches out there like Mike Leach.

(I think most of the anti-Mike Leach arguments would be better used against Mike Gundy, who's track record on defense is horrendous. Leach has actually been pretty savvy in finding great discount DCs.)
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So you say some good points but please explain why no big time P5 team has given him a job? You talk about what he can do with less right? Ok. This year will be his 8th season at Wazzu. So you mean to tell me not one big time program was willing to take a gamble on him from 2012 until now? And please dont start with the getting along with the AD excuse.
 
#98
#98
Jack Burton said:
I would have preferred Leach given the chance. His offense is much more fun to watch and he would have a higher ceiling here than Pruitt. We just aren’t going to beat Alabama or UGA running the same type offense but with less talent.
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Washington eats Leachs lunch nearly every year. So would UF, UGA and Bama. Leach would get smoked in the SEC.
 
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