McStrike

#126
#126
Gramps said:
I beg to differ. My dad owned a few service (gas) stations back in the 60'sand 70's. He did not work high school kids. He worked family men.. they earned enough to live a fairly good life. That I know to be fact. Say what you want , the truth is yes low wage workers could raise a family without assistance, that is fact.
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raising a family and pretty good life seem to go beyond your desired "simple"

what is the standard for simple?
 
#128
#128
Gramps said:
They didn't have to accept government handouts to survive. That standard.
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Still don't. Take away the gov't assistance and you'd be surprised at how many survive.

What is the "simple life"? Enough food to eat, roof over the head and clothes?
 
#129
#129
If only there were jobs out there
 

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#130
#130
Gramps said:
They didn't have to accept government handouts to survive. That standard.
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People can do that now, or they could, had the government not stepped in and told millions that they could afford a new home regardless of their ability to pay.
 
#131
#131
MG1968 said:
People can do that now, or they could, had the government not stepped in and told millions that they could afford a new home regardless of their ability to pay.
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That is a weak argument.

What is the connection between people buying homes they could not afford in the 2000's have to do with non skill jobs in 2014?
 
#133
#133
Gramps said:
That is a weak argument.

What is the connection between people buying homes they could not afford in the 2000's have to do with minimum wage jobs in 2014?
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Government interference in the private economy.

You're advocating for the government to do more, when it has already done enough.
 
#136
#136
Gramps said:
Stop Trolling... You know darn well what living a simple life is.
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No, not trolling and you don't get off that easy.

I consider myself as living the "simple life" and I make way above min wage.

Give some examples of the "simple life" you say people cannot afford.
 
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#138
#138
Gramps said:
I agree with that OB. Something has to give, if not we are headed into bankruptcy. If cost of living continues to increase, wages stay the same we will see more and more go onto government assistance. It is a shame that our government and employers make it better for non skilled workers to sit on their azz and make more than they can by working a low wage job. That pisses me off with the government for trying to give everyone a life they do not require and it pisses me off the employers do not pay their employees enough to live. If they can't they need to close their doors and the government needs to cut back on all the darn handsouts. Just an old man's opiinion.
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Increase minimum wage, increase inflation. It's a net wash to the burger flipper, I pay more in welfare taxes, and the dollars I'm left with buy less. The only conceivable benefit is that my debt is worth less.

In the long run, increasing the minimum wage helps no one and hurts almost everyone.
 
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#139
#139
Gramps said:
I beg to differ. My dad owned a few service (gas) stations back in the 60'sand 70's. He did not work high school kids. He worked family men.. they earned enough to live a fairly good life. That I know to be fact. Say what you want , the truth is yes low wage workers could raise a family without assistance, that is fact.
Click to expand...

So, is the problem wage, or inflation?

decade_cumulative_inflation.jpg


Increasing minimum wage will drive up inflation. It seems to me that inflation is what has driven this abyss of poverty, so fueling inflation will have a negative effect, not a positive one.
 
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#140
#140
Orange_Crush said:
So, is the problem wage, or inflation?

decade_cumulative_inflation.jpg


Increasing minimum wage will drive up inflation. It seems to me that inflation is what has driven this abyss of poverty, so fueling inflation will have a negative effect, not a positive one.
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The greatest incidence of poverty in this country was during the 1930's when, as shown by your chart, there was deflation.
 
#142
#142
Gramps said:
I am not talking about high school kids. Most of them work 15 -20 hours to get a few bucks to blow.
Do you agree that someone that works 40 hours per week should be able to live a simple life without government assistance?
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No, not all jobs pay enough. Flipping burgers does not constitute a career.
 
#145
#145
82_VOL_83 said:
No, not all jobs pay enough. Flipping burgers does not constitute a career.
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I agree with this 100%. I am in no way advocating a minimum wage increase. There are some jobs that should pay minimum wage, flipping burgers, bagging groceries etc. Those all should be part time starter jobs to get kids into the workforce and learn the value of a dollar.

My complaint is with the companies that have laid off their $12-20 per hour employees, most of the factories in my area, and replaced them with temp workers making $8-9 per hour. Yes it increases the companies profit at the same time it is hurting America. This has forced more people to lose their homes, cars, file bankruptcy and force them into government programs. That is what I am talking about when I say our employers need to pay a little more or we are going to continue to see increases in the number enrolled in subsidizes. Between the government guidelines for handouts and the employers lowering wages.This did not start during this administration but it sure has grown drastically.

IMO, it is going to take business, and government working together to solve this problem along with citizens retraining for the jobs of today and tomorrow.

Government needs to make it harder for people to get subsidizes and put serious guidelines on length of time they last. If we are going to give subsidizes to people that are able to work, they should be forced to train for the jobs of today and tomorrow. Send them to some type of school for up to 2 years and drop their butts off the subsidies. They work or they starve.

Business need to give cost of living increases so their employees do not have to rely on the government to survive. Every business cannot pay above minimum wage and should not, however there are many business that can and should pay more.

This is not a Dem or GOP issue, both sides are at fault. The Dems openly say they are for the handouts. The GOP talks a good game about being fiscally conservative. Talk is cheap. Look back to the late 1990's when the GOP controlled Congress and during the 2000's when the controlled congress and the WH. Actions show they are just as big of spenders and expand government as much as the Dems do.

We have a serious problem that will not be resolved as long as our government refuses to have any serious conversations instead of blaming the other party for everything wrong in America. Fact is both parties are equally guilty. This is my last post in this thread... :) :hi:
 
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#146
#146
Gramps said:
That is true. I am not advocating $15 per hour to flip burgers, that is ridiculous. Just a few decades ago, people could work low paying jobs and supports themselves and a small family without government assistance. That is not the case any longer. It is a sad reality, low wage (minimum wage or close to it) do need a wage increase. We have two choices, employers can pay a little more per hour or we will continue to see participates in the government assistance programs increase. Low wage workers should not expect smartphones, cable with all the channels, new cars etc. I do think if someone works full time they should earn enough to provide a simple life without government assistance.
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Real talk, part of the problem is that many people (I would include myself in this) live well beyond the normal means of a person 50 years ago. I live by myself in a 1500 sf 3 bedroom home today, when the house I grew up in as was just at 1000 sf 3 bedrooms. To that extent, I'm way beyond what is necessary. But not only that, but I have cable and internet bills (something that didn't exist 40 years ago). My car is paid for, so I don't have that, but on top of all of this, we have people buying cars every 3 years and going upside down on each trade, buying Tahoes/Suburbans for $40k+ when a used minivan at half the price would often serve the same purpose. We have people buying way more house than they need and adding on these extra utilities/bills that didn't exist before (nor are they necessities). If people would buy homes or create demand for homes that were back to what they were 40 years ago (around 1000 sf) and get back to basic utilities and drive reasonable used cars (and keep them until they are paid off), then you may have middle class people in America able to afford things.
 
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#147
#147
Gramps said:
I agree with this 100%. I am in no way advocating a minimum wage increase. There are some jobs that should pay minimum wage, flipping burgers, bagging groceries etc. Those all should be part time starter jobs to get kids into the workforce and learn the value of a dollar.

My complaint is with the companies that have laid off their $12-20 per hour employees, most of the factories in my area, and replaced them with temp workers making $8-9 per hour. Yes it increases the companies profit at the same time it is hurting America. This has forced more people to lose their homes, cars, file bankruptcy and force them into government programs. That is what I am talking about when I say our employers need to pay a little more or we are going to continue to see increases in the number enrolled in subsidizes. Between the government guidelines for handouts and the employers lowering wages.This did not start during this administration but it sure has grown drastically.

IMO, it is going to take business, and government working together to solve this problem along with citizens retraining for the jobs of today and tomorrow.

Government needs to make it harder for people to get subsidizes and put serious guidelines on length of time they last. If we are going to give subsidizes to people that are able to work, they should be forced to train for the jobs of today and tomorrow. Send them to some type of school for up to 2 years and drop their butts off the subsidies. They work or they starve.

Business need to give cost of living increases so their employees do not have to rely on the government to survive. Every business cannot pay above minimum wage and should not, however there are many business that can and should pay more.

This is not a Dem or GOP issue, both sides are at fault. The Dems openly say they are for the handouts. The GOP talks a good game about being fiscally conservative. Talk is cheap. Look back to the late 1990's when the GOP controlled Congress and during the 2000's when the controlled congress and the WH. Actions show they are just as big of spenders and expand government as much as the Dems do.

We have a serious problem that will not be resolved as long as our government refuses to have any serious conversations instead of blaming the other party for everything wrong in America. Fact is both parties are equally guilty. This is my last post in this thread... :) :hi:
Click to expand...

Cost of living raises would be a big help to most people - looks like the CEOs and Top management at these companies all get more than enough to live on and then say well the economy is bad blah blah blah no raises this year
 
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#148
#148
508mikey said:
Cost of living raises would be a big help to most people - looks like the CEOs and Top management at these companies all get more than enough to live on and then say well the economy is bad blah blah blah no raises this year
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Your company too huh? This shiite is getting old.
 
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#149
#149
508mikey said:
Cost of living raises would be a big help to most people - looks like the CEOs and Top management at these companies all get more than enough to live on and then say well the economy is bad blah blah blah no raises this year
Click to expand...

We use to get a cost of living raise every year along with performance bonuses & other bonuses like perfect attendance. First went the performance bonuses. Then the col raise went away. Then the attendance bonuses. All the while the actual cost of living sky rockets along with your health insurance premiums, copays, & coverage decreases. "Be glad you have a job" is the usual rebuttal to any complaints. After the company has changed hands a couple times things have gotten a little better. Healthcare still gets worse but we have got a raise the past 2 or 3 years. Get reimbursed for gym membership as long as we go. It could be worse no doubt but it should be a lot better.
 
#150
#150
Gramps said:
I agree with this 100%. I am in no way advocating a minimum wage increase. There are some jobs that should pay minimum wage, flipping burgers, bagging groceries etc. Those all should be part time starter jobs to get kids into the workforce and learn the value of a dollar.

My complaint is with the companies that have laid off their $12-20 per hour employees, most of the factories in my area, and replaced them with temp workers making $8-9 per hour. Yes it increases the companies profit at the same time it is hurting America. This has forced more people to lose their homes, cars, file bankruptcy and force them into government programs. That is what I am talking about when I say our employers need to pay a little more or we are going to continue to see increases in the number enrolled in subsidizes. Between the government guidelines for handouts and the employers lowering wages.This did not start during this administration but it sure has grown drastically.

IMO, it is going to take business, and government working together to solve this problem along with citizens retraining for the jobs of today and tomorrow.

Government needs to make it harder for people to get subsidizes and put serious guidelines on length of time they last. If we are going to give subsidizes to people that are able to work, they should be forced to train for the jobs of today and tomorrow. Send them to some type of school for up to 2 years and drop their butts off the subsidies. They work or they starve.

Business need to give cost of living increases so their employees do not have to rely on the government to survive. Every business cannot pay above minimum wage and should not, however there are many business that can and should pay more.

This is not a Dem or GOP issue, both sides are at fault. The Dems openly say they are for the handouts. The GOP talks a good game about being fiscally conservative. Talk is cheap. Look back to the late 1990's when the GOP controlled Congress and during the 2000's when the controlled congress and the WH. Actions show they are just as big of spenders and expand government as much as the Dems do.

We have a serious problem that will not be resolved as long as our government refuses to have any serious conversations instead of blaming the other party for everything wrong in America. Fact is both parties are equally guilty. This is my last post in this thread... :) :hi:
Click to expand...

The company is not getting the difference in pay, that is going to the temp agency, but you're right in that the worker is getting less. The benefit to the company is that they have no problem adjusting their workforce to their needs. If they have too many temps they send them home. If they need more workers they call the temp agency and they are relieved of all hiring and firing problems.
 
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