McElWain canned for cause, can we use the same "cause?"

#76
#76
HuntlandVolinColo said:
I would be leery of taking a coaching position at Florida after the way they fired MacE. With that interpretation, you would never be allowed to BS or embellish anything!
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You could freaking FAKE A HEART ATTACK, if you win enough. :wink2:
 
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#77
#77
imo, there has to be more to the story here. Florida would have a tough case proving "cause" given the murky ground here.

And Sexton would be in violation of his fiduciary duty as an agent if he prioritizes other clients over Mac.

If Mac is really walking away from a ton of money there have to be some unsaid mitigating factors.
 
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#79
#79
DaddyChad said:
Oh I'm not saying Florida is losing money. I think Stricklin looks like a shady, douche after this though. I'm not saying Mac wasn't an idiot or anything else but you're firing him and swindling out of money because he's a loser not because of the death threats fiasco. Agents and coaches know that and I think it will hurt Florida in the short term as far as getting who they want. It's not arguable that Florida is a top tier job, I'm just not sure stricklin is going to be seen as a person many people want to work for. JMO though.
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I couldn’t disagree more with your characterization of Stricklin. So far, he has come off as an in-charge, take-charge guy, a fiscally smart businessman and caretaker of the bottom line at UF.

There aren’t many people around the country right now throwing much sympathy Mac’s way after the death threat fiasco. Not many people saying “yeah, this guy deserves full buyout money.”

If Stricklin didn’t take advantage of that, he wouldn’t be doing his job and everyone associated with UF would take notice.
 
#80
#80
butchna said:
Love to see them prove that. But he was always soft so they took advantage.
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How so on proving it Butchna? He made the statement on video. Then when specifically queried he declined further details I think they said? I guess to me that’s pretty clear cut. You don’t think so?
 
#82
#82
Remy said:
Just for snicks and giggles UF indicated they terminated McElwain "for cause." Sounds like he accepted it or took it for what it was. What was THE cause? I heard a nebulous explanation about not winning enough?!?!? Why can't we can CBJ for the same "cause?" Goodness knows he didn't win as much as McElwain did. Thoughts?
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He wanted out bad...... don't kid yourself into thinking it was all the admin at UF
 
#83
#83
oldgator said:
It will be negotiated to about 50% of buyout IMO. This article pretty much sums it up. Mac and his agent surely understand the challenges of getting him a new job if he is involved in a messy legal process over his termination in his old one - and they will want that baggage cut away ASAP.
Report: Jim McElwain may get just $4 million, not full buyout - Alligator Army
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That's not really how it works - you are saying he will negotiate a payout for 50%, where did you get that from? I mean you are just making stuff up. I for one have no idea what has been talked about, and he could very well get 50% or more or less. The article makes absolutely no sense unless an agreement has already been struck and even than the article doesn't make sense. His contract has provisions as to termination "for cause" matter of fact, that ship has probably already sailed, if they didn't start executing it. (at least my as far as I could see skimming it)

Unless Florida has an agreement with him in principle their legal standing, even if they had one (which imo they don't) goes out the window.
 
#85
#85
Jaws said:
Not from what I’m seeing and hearing. Mac’s buyout was 12.9 million. No way in hell UF pays that. I’ve heard they’ll pay from 4-6 million, which would be a huge financial win for UF. Mac’s “death threat” comments gave UF huge leverage.

If Mac says “I want the whole buyout.” UF says “prove you got death threats.” Mac says “oh, they were anonymous phone calls.” UF says “no problem, our lawyers will subpoena phone records.” Or, Mac may say “it was a random nut who said he wanted to kill me coming out of Burger King on University Ave.” UF says, “no worries, we’ll pull surveillance cameras from the restaurant and adjoining restaurants to validate.”

In other words, Jimmy Sexton steps in and whispers in Mac’s ear; “hey man, too much trouble, we’ll just take the 4 million.”
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If Florida doesn't have an agreement in principle than they are on the hook, the buyout is in the contract. Saying there is no way in hell the school is going to pay seems like speculation.

Did they fire him with cause? If they did, there are requirements of the Association in the contract. Just glancing at it, saying no way in hell doesn't make much sense at this stage.
 
#86
#86
Jaws said:
There aren’t many people around the country right now throwing much sympathy Mac’s way after the death threat fiasco. Not many people saying “yeah, this guy deserves full buyout money.”
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I can't stand the bastard, so? The buyout is in contract, he doesn't appear to have been fired "for cause", so unless they have an agreement in principle you have to assume Florida owes the whole thing. My guess is there was already an agreement, if not Florida is probably in world of hurt or very well could be.

https://2michy3wy0l30d34041dt1et-wp...tracts/jimmcelwain-uf-employment-contract.pdf

Its not as simple as they fire him with cause, unless he of course agrees with it. Legally they really don't have reason to fire him other than "he sucks", its buyer's remorse. Now, if he agrees than that is okay but just simply saying they have cause doesn't make it so.

If they don't already have an agreement, they should continue to pay his salary. If they fired him for cause, he could either agree or disagree - he appears to have due process, if he disagrees, generally.

Generally, I think the "reason" is not the real "reason" and if it went to court, I don't like Florida's chances... most of these will not end up in court. If Florida had cause they could have suspended him last week, but he corrected himself the next day or further clarified his statement and they allowed him to coach the week and the game. What harm has been done? None not really.

If he were any other employee of the school or, if he was winning this would never be on anyone's radar.
 
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#87
#87
NorthDallas40 said:
How so on proving it Butchna? He made the statement on video. Then when specifically queried he declined further details I think they said? I guess to me that’s pretty clear cut. You don’t think so?
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No. He could print out Twitter and come up with a threat. How do you prove a phone call didn’t happen? So many ways to be threatened. Urban Meyer lied about his heart problems (and his retirement) and not a peep. They’re frauds.
 
#88
#88
LSU-SIU said:
If Florida doesn't have an agreement in principle than they are on the hook, the buyout is in the contract. Saying there is no way in hell the school is going to pay seems like speculation.

Did they fire him with cause? If they did, there are requirements of the Association in the contract. Just glancing at it, saying no way in hell doesn't make much sense at this stage.
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Actually, my understanding is that Mac's agent is trying to avoid the "fired with cause" language to avoid Mac having to deal with that for his next job. That's part of why they will settle for way less than 12.9 million.

Either way, Stricklin wins.
 
#89
#89
GAVol said:
Florida could have that job filled in 24 hours if they wanted to.

McElwain has been acting like a tool and at odds with his administration since he got the job.
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Mac was crazy like a shark.....he wanted out. He knew what he was doing -he decided it's worth a reduced buyout to escape Gainesville any way he could.
 
#93
#93
Jaws said:
Actually, my understanding is that Mac's agent is trying to avoid the "fired with cause" language to avoid Mac having to deal with that for his next job. That's part of why they will settle for way less than 12.9 million.

Either way, Stricklin wins.
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1. I have no idea what is going behind the scenes.
2. It could be that both sides are trying to avoid the "cause" portion, idk, maybe the worked out an agreement that needs to be formalized, idk.
3. What we do know is Florida said it was "mutual", whether it was or wasn't that is all we really know.... there is no his side of where things stand... I have no idea what was said in there.
4. If Florida doesn't have an agreement in principle at least the figures by the other day, they are probably in a world of hurt.... unless they have something much more damaging and then the are in a bad situation because it doesn't appear that they are following the contract.

Simply put, the buyout is in the contract, if he said its probably best, if we decide to come up with an agreement to separate.... they still owe him the balance of the contract.

My guess is an agreement in principle was agreed upon and it needs to be formalized, if not, this might not work out so well for Florida. As it doesn't appear they are following the contract as it pertains to "for cause".

As to my personal view on the matter, they do not have cause to fire him, even if they did that ship sailed when they didn't suspend him or fire him last week - all the facts were known at that point. What they did was continue to let him coach through the week and the game to see where his record was.

Either way, the next coach better be very careful as now Florida is onto their 4th full-time coach in less then 8 years, and they just threw the last one out after winning back to back SECW. And the perception is they don't want to pay him.

The firing is still the easiest part, even this mess of a firing.
 
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#94
#94
UTFootballFan said:
My sources tell me UF and Gruden have agreed to terms and it's pending final sign off.
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<blue font> There's a guy in Lakeland who is connected to UFAD has had his bonafides checked by a VN mod that has seen Gruden's signature on the Florida contract. Soon gators soon.
 
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#95
#95
butchna said:
You could freaking FAKE A HEART ATTACK, if you win enough. :wink2:
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LOL, "heart attack" produces evidence, the more cloudy and muddied waters of "chest pains" is the better option that some of us recall. I suspect one bad loss or one less than exemplary season for Coach Chest Pains will produce those again and he'll end up at Notre Dame which is where he really wanted to go all along IMO.
 
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#96
#96
LSU-SIU said:
I can't stand the bastard, so? The buyout is in contract, he doesn't appear to have been fired "for cause", so unless they have an agreement in principle you have to assume Florida owes the whole thing. My guess is there was already an agreement, if not Florida is probably in world of hurt or very well could be.

https://2michy3wy0l30d34041dt1et-wp...tracts/jimmcelwain-uf-employment-contract.pdf

Its not as simple as they fire him with cause, unless he of course agrees with it. Legally they really don't have reason to fire him other than "he sucks", its buyer's remorse. Now, if he agrees than that is okay but just simply saying they have cause doesn't make it so.

If they don't already have an agreement, they should continue to pay his salary. If they fired him for cause, he could either agree or disagree - he appears to have due process, if he disagrees, generally.

Generally, I think the "reason" is not the real "reason" and if it went to court, I don't like Florida's chances... most of these will not end up in court. If Florida had cause they could have suspended him last week, but he corrected himself the next day or further clarified his statement and they allowed him to coach the week and the game. What harm has been done? None not really.

If he were any other employee of the school or, if he was winning this would never be on anyone's radar.
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I enjoyed this post as it got to the crux from where my original query came. When he took the mic as HC for the last time it "sounded" to my ear as he pretty much accepted his dismissal, I heard no fight in him at all, more like he was just walking off into the sunset, strictly my view. Later the official explanation was for "cause." In my head I was thinking what "cause" could have you just walking into the sunset with zero buyout money head tucked? If it was a young boy, him, and a biily goat, I get that. I dont follow gator's football much so did not hear about the death threats thingy until I started this thread, but the UFAD did not say specifically that was THE cause, just cause was used. I find the whole thing odd but it could be just me.
 
#97
#97
Ashevolle said:
If he doesn't litigate the issues, he's a fool. He would win that case if it went to court. They'd settle in the 9-10 million range if he put up a fight. If he said "aw shucks" after a simple threat to fire him for cause and agreed to take 4-6 million, he doesn't deserve his buyout. I'm sure minimal research could find death threats on social media against him and multiple players.
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The problem is three-fold:

1. McElwain didn't initially inform law enforcement or his AD about the "death threats". He chose to blindside his bosses during a press conference. If you want to get outed on a lie...quickly...tell that lie in front of the assembled media whose job it is to follow up on that type of information.

2. McElwain included players getting death threats. If it were only him and his family, only one family is affected. When he mentioned the players, that's multiple families affected...families who are putting trust in the university to protect their children.

3. McElwain later said he would address the "death threats" if they became unmanageable. What does that mean? How do you manage a death threat without informing law enforcement? McElwain refusing to offer additional details of UF or law enforcement about the threats was proof positive he was lying.

There's also a rumor out there that Jimmy Sexton is actively negotiating for McElwain to take the Oregon State job, so the sooner this UF mess gets cleaned up, the better.

McElwain's mouth gave UF leverage and cost him around $7-8 million. And to Jaws' point earlier, this whole death threat episode was the final straw in a relationship McElwain wanted out of as much as UF did.

UF thought they had cause to fire McElwain, and opinions vary on whether or not we did have cause. In my mind McElwain taking a lesser buyout proves he had little to no leverage to successfully litigate, or he knew UF had enough information to pursue firing him for cause.
 
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#98
#98
Remy said:
I enjoyed this post as it got to the crux from where my original query came. When he took the mic as HC for the last time it "sounded" to my ear as he pretty much accepted his dismissal, I heard no fight in him at all, more like he was just walking off into the sunset, strictly my view. Later the official explanation was for "cause." In my head I was thinking what "cause" could have you just walking into the sunset with zero buyout money head tucked? If it was a young boy, him, and a biily goat, I get that. I dont follow gator's football much so did not hear about the death threats thingy until I started this thread, but the UFAD did not say specifically that was THE cause, just cause was used. I find the whole thing odd but it could be just me.
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Yeah, I can't pretend to know what is going on behind the scenes. I agree it doesn't appear he really cared too much but that could be because he has a contract. LOL

If I were to guess, they must have agreed to a number, if not Florida could be in a very bad mess because the contract specifies what needs to happen for "cause" and it doesn't appear they are following those steps. I think that is really all I am saying at this moment... the whole thing is very strange.
 
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