Marvin on Bill Gibbs former UT hoops asst killed in plane crash

#28

m1al

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#28
I take it like me you watch Battle 360. I like the WWII birds too. My favorites are the P-47 Thunderbolt, the P-51D Mustang, P-38 Lightning, FW-109, FW-190, F4U Chance Vought Corsair. AND almost all the too little too late German machines that would have changed history if they'd been available at least by early 1942. OK, fine, I liked all of them. Including the RC models. :)
Love the P-47 and the Corsair also.. Big Pappy Boyington fan.. He wasn't to great at life but he was a helluva fighter pilot. My dad flew an F6 Hellcat in the very early 50s.. That plane was a BEAST...
 
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#29

WoodsmanVol

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#29
Love the P-47 and the Corsair also.. Big Pappy Boyington fan.. He wasn't to great at life but he was a helluva fighter pilot. My dad flew an F6 Hellcat in the very early 50s.. That plane was a BEAST...
The P-47 was a rugged plane. It took a lot of punishment. You didn't want one diving at you from above as not much you could do to get away from it. The Hellcat was a bit similar. Racked up a lot of Zero kills. I'm not overly familiar with Pappy but the name strikes a bell. A flight leader I think. Was he in on the destruction of the last Nipponese battleship? The Yamato, I think.
 
#30

chef3531

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#30
Very subjective.
If you count every time you start a car get to destination turn off car as 1 journey.
versus
getting on a plane flying and landing as one journey.
Where most people would make more journey's by car in a week than they would by plane in a lifetime.
The number of what I'm calling journey's are millions more by car than by flight.
Statistically you are still much safer flying then driving. Air disasters only get so much more press because of the higher number of people, yet hundreds die every day in car accidents. If you do it by mileage traveled/ per death you see the difference. Some of those aircraft fly millions pic trouble free miles, and I know some people who wreck cars every other month.
 
#31

chef3531

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#31
Neither you nor I can be everywhere at once, nor see everything other people have seen. Call that paranoia if you must. As for a uniform not being a pilot, it is when he dragging the little wheeled suitcase behind him. Puts it away or has a stewardess put it in a compartment in the first-class section. Then knock the cockpit door for admittance and enters. Sure it could be the navigator, co-pilot or trainee. But when cops show up and escort said uniform off, well... Your next snide remark will probably be that drunk pilots don't exist. OK, here's just one of several examples. Here's one I didn't see either but know it happens based on what I did see and such reports from time to time. Neither you nor I can be everywhere at once, not see everything other people have seen. Call that paranoia if you must. On a rabbit hunt, I saw a buck flip head over heels, jerk his legs a few times and lay still. I never saw the bullet hit it. That didn't change the fact brer rabbit was lying dead on the ground.
A Delta pilot was removed from a fully boarded plane and arrested on suspicion of being intoxicated - CNN
And how many people have pilots who have been drinking, killed, in comparison to people drinking and driving automobiles? Not even statistically comparable.
 
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#32

chef3531

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#32
Funny thing is, I'd jump at the chance to ride an Energia, Proton or Dragon rocket to space, orbit or space station visit.

Oh, RIB Gibbs, Marshall football team, and others who fly and crashed.
I'm sure that by being argumentative with everyone, they may pitch in and get you a one way ticket on one of them there rockets. Whoooooooosh!
 
#33

chef3531

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#33
Love aircraft also.. My favorite era is WWII warbirds..
I'm fortunate that I live not far from several great collections of war birds. Legacy Flight Museum in Rexburg, ID, and the Nampa Warbird museum in Nampa, ID. Outstanding collections at both, I see the P51s from Legacy quite often during the summer months.
 
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#34

chef3531

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#34
The P-47 was a rugged plane. It took a lot of punishment. You didn't want one diving at you from above as not much you could do to get away from it. The Hellcat was a bit similar. Racked up a lot of Zero kills. I'm not overly familiar with Pappy but the name strikes a bell. A flight leader I think. Was he in on the destruction of the last Nipponese battleship? The Yamato, I think.
Baa Baa Black Sheep. The Black Sheep squadron VMA-214. That was Pappy's squadron in WWII. The group of misfits.
 
#35

m1al

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#35
The P-47 was a rugged plane. It took a lot of punishment. You didn't want one diving at you from above as not much you could do to get away from it. The Hellcat was a bit similar. Racked up a lot of Zero kills. I'm not overly familiar with Pappy but the name strikes a bell. A flight leader I think. Was he in on the destruction of the last Nipponese battleship? The Yamato, I think.
Pappy fought with Chenault and the Flying Tigers. Eventually ended up in the Pacific as a flight leader with the Black Sheep squadron.. He was shot down and sat out the last part of the war in a Japanese prison camp. He was quite a colorful character.
 
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#38

Ten_Titans

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#38
Very subjective.
If you count every time you start a car get to destination turn off car as 1 journey.
versus
getting on a plane flying and landing as one journey.
Where most people would make more journey's by car in a week than they would by plane in a lifetime.
The number of what I'm calling journey's are millions more by car than by flight.
It's not subjective.

Fatalities per mile for planes is still much lower than cars.
 
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#39

1Big_Orange_Fan

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#39
Flying accidents are usually human error. Kobe’s pilot shouldn’t have even taken off that day.
I spoke with a lady today who’s daughter is a pilot in the same area/county as Kobe’s flight and she said their planes were grounded that day due to the weather. You are right, they should never have taken off that day.
 
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#40

WoodsmanVol

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#40
Pappy fought with Chenault and the Flying Tigers. Eventually ended up in the Pacific as a flight leader with the Black Sheep squadron.. He was shot down and sat out the last part of the war in a Japanese prison camp. He was quite a colorful character.
Flying Tigers were a heck of a squadron. I think it amazing what they did with the Curtis P-40 which was supposed to be inferior to the Zero. So I was told but never fully understood why. It seemed more streamlined. Obviously, I remain ignorant about the performance specs of the two. Except I knew no American planes could match the climb rate of a Zero in the early part of our entry to WWII. Beyond that, I think the Zero was under-armed and poorly armored compared to most American planes from start to finish of the war.
 
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#41

SWFLvol33

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#41
I spoke with a lady today who’s daughter is a pilot in the same area/county as Kobe’s flight and she said their planes were grounded that day due to the weather. You are right, they should never have taken off that day.
Yup. It’s common sense. For something as routine as this flight was, they should’ve turned around or landed at a nearby airport or just go IFR. No need to risk it. Really surprised why the pilot didn’t just try to go IFR
 
#42

WoodsmanVol

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#42
Pappy fought with Chenault and the Flying Tigers. Eventually ended up in the Pacific as a flight leader with the Black Sheep squadron.. He was shot down and sat out the last part of the war in a Japanese prison camp. He was quite a colorful character.
Off the path comment. I'm hoping to get or build a 1/4 scale F4U but my wife said no to the money needed to do this. Maybe one day. I'm shutting up on this now. If we haven't already, I think Freak has reached his tolerance limit of our exciting (for me at least) off-topic exchanges. Don't be surprised if one of my insulting trolls post some snide remark. It's what they do.
 
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#43

m1al

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#43
Off the path comment. I'm hoping to get or build a 1/4 scale F4U but my wife to the money needed to do this. Maybe one day. I'm shutting up on this now. If we haven't already, I think Freak has reached his tolerance of our exciting (for me at least) off topic exchanges. Don't be surprised if one of insulting trolls post some snide remark. It's what they do.
Enjoyed the convo... 😀👍
 
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#45

VolDave53

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#45
Yup. It’s common sense. For something as routine as this flight was, they should’ve turned around or landed at a nearby airport or just go IFR. No need to risk it. Really surprised why the pilot didn’t just try to go IFR
Forbes has an article that reveals the company that leases the pilot and crew (FAR Part 135) does not have IFR operations authorized in its OpSpecs from the FAA. The pilot, though with many hours and an Instrument Instructor, had zero experience in actual clouds. Without currency, he was a sitting duck taking off into the situation. Looking at the reported weather at the nearby airports, he was legal to fly VFR as Special VFR is not as restrictive for helicopters. It is done regularly in the LA basin when the smog gets thick and it is done safely. What he did not take into account was the fact that the rising terrain came up to the cloud bases and becomes fog when the clouds are on the surface.

I am an Airline Transport rated pilot flying commercially for the last 40 years, the last 35 in helicopters, and know the aircraft that was involved in the accident quite well with over 3500 hour in the type. Looking at the data already released to the public, the pilot lost control after he did the right thing which was to climb. There are 2 ways to climb. Add power through the collective and/or to simply pull back on the cyclic (yoke in an airplane). If he chose the latter and did not add power in the climb, he would experience the characteristics demonstrated with his loss of airspeed control. That aircraft will disconnect the autopilot when airspeed gets below 60 knots. He actually had speeds as low as 10 knots in his climb, so his AP was not there to help him. I am sure the AP disconnect caught him by surprise in an already stressful situation, thus adding to his mental overload. A sad outcome was inevitable. (A friend who has well over 15000 hours in type and is extraordinarily knowledgeable concurs with my analysis.)

I fly in jets weekly and have over 1 million miles on airlines as a passenger as well. I won't fly American or United for various reasons, but Delta and Southwest do an excellent job.

Good thread.
 
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#47

VOLINVONORE

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#47
Yup. It’s common sense. For something as routine as this flight was, they should’ve turned around or landed at a nearby airport or just go IFR. No need to risk it. Really surprised why the pilot didn’t just try to go IFR
Since we don't know what went on on the copter, some are assuming that the pilot made the decision to take off and not return. It could be possible , or probable, that CB had insisted that they make the fliight because they would have missed the ballgame if they din't fly. I realize the piolt has command of the flight, but he may have been acted on the insistence of KB. this copter had no recorder so we will never know unless the tower had a recording of their conversations.
 
#48

WoodsmanVol

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#48
I'm sure that by being argumentative with everyone, they may pitch in and get you a one way ticket on one of them there rockets. Whoooooooosh!
Given the steady degeneration of morals, lie lovers, and outright lack of empathy and courtesy in society, I'd gladly board and fly on the proffered craft. Take up permanent residence on the space station, the moon, Mars, or even Solaris.
 

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