Malzahn

#101
#101
JonGrudensAgent said:
Wasn't so much approaching that post as risk-reward or cost benefit versus the perception of things as they stand.

It just looks bad that UCF can land a proven SEC coach and UT takes a chance on a guy with less track record and a bad W/L trend at his previous stop.

I think you're right though that Malzahn has hit his ceiling whereas we don't know on Heupel. Money wise, it obviously makes sense if you look at it in terms of buying wins. Malzahn probably isn't a huge number of wins better than Heupel short term.

Heupel can put the negative narratives to rest by winning in the Fall.

I am hopeful that his offensive prowess can generate some unexpected wins and rejuvenate recruiting. And I just generally like his attitude a lot more than Pruitt or Jones so far.
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I like our hire, and I was an early Malzahn supporter for our job.

Doesn't Malzahn to UCF say as much about his stock, as him not coming to Knoxville? It is all neutral in the end.

Gus should clean up at UCF with all that Florida talent with plenty to go around. But even if he wins 12 games; he never sniffs the playoffs. It is all just a mixed bag.

Heupel to UT has really grown on me. We are a great DC away from having something special coming up.
So let's see if White and Heupel find the next great DC.
 
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#102
#102
TrumpedUpVol said:
I'm interested in seeing what Heupel can bring to Tennessee football and (obviously) he's done nothing to garner either my unwavering support or complete ire in the last three weeks, but given that Tennessee needs stability now more than anything it'll be more than a little disappointing if the walking embodiment of stability winds up at UCF instead of roaming the sidelines in Knoxville. Malzahn would have been both safe and exciting, so I'd be pretty displeased with Danny White for bringing in "his" guy instead since his potential upside is balanced perfectly by the odds of him being mediocre at best.
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What makes people think Malzahn wanted this job?? I would think most would prefer to go somewhere like UCF (which is a very good program), coach there for a couple years to rehab my image and then go back to big stage; instead of going to a place where there’s a big dark cloud hanging over it’s head.
 
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#103
#103
TMvol10 said:
What makes people think Malzahn wanted this job?? I would think most would prefer to go somewhere like UCF (which is a very good program), coach there for a couple years to rehab my image and then go back to big stage; instead of going to a place where there’s a big dark cloud hanging over it’s head.
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Did we even try to get him though? That's my question. Obviously, he was willing to return to coaching.
 
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#104
#104
Honestly, I think Malzahn is Heupel with a few years SEC experience.
Meaning as coaches, they are fairly equal in terms of scheme, Xs and Os, and such.
Gus would recruit slightly better I think but that would be solely because of his exposure at a big time program that Heupel does not yet have...Josh will catch up fairly quick if he can start winning a few games.

I believe Danny White made a great hire for the future here and it will play out one of three ways:
1) Heupel just catches fire and brings us back to an elite level playing for a spot in the CFP every year as a top 5 program.
2) Heupel has a modicum of success and gets us to a plateau where we are winning 8 to 10 games every year.
3) Heupel gets us to a point where 7 to 9 wins are being posted every year.

In case number one, CJH becomes another Fulmer / Neyland type coach in the annals of Volunteer football and will decide his own tenure.
Number two, he will get a healthy contract extension (similar to Gus at Auburn) and likely be here for 6 or 7 years.
Number three, CJH might get one extension but will only be here about 5 years, but leaves the program in a good place.
In each case, the UTAD comes out the winner because unlike a Gus Malzahn level coach they didn't throw 6 to 8 million a year with a huge buyout...to me , that was one of the most paramount things UT needed in this hire.
 
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#107
#107
unfrozencvmanvol said:
I haven't been against the Heupel hire at all, under the circumstances I figured it was probably the best we could do. If Malzahn takes the UCF job though I'm really going to question that assumption, unless we kicked the tires and Gus told us no. Where else would we find a coach that beat Saban 3 times? Not to mention that would have likely locked up Big Kat, Dylan Brooks, Cody Brown and others.

UCF offers head football coaching job to Gus Malzahn
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I don't think UT and Danny White had any real interest in hiring Gus. Gus's offense has run it's course in the SEC in my opinion. Let's not forget that as disappointing as Pruitt's tenure was, his "signature win" was beating Gus and Auburn.
 
#108
#108
VolMarine1371 said:
And they have no chance in making the playoffs unless they go undefeated for 5 years in a row and then they still most likely won’t get in. They will most likely keep going to 2nd and 3rd tier bowl games considering the conference they are in.
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They also won't be clamoring for his head after going 9-3 on a yearly basis.
 
#111
#111
DiderotsGhost said:
So if we hired Malzahn, we'd basically just be hiring him because he's a great recruiter.
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This is another thing I need to comment on.

The end-goal in recruiting isn't to "win the 247.com team recruiting rankings" - it's to properly fill the holes on your team so there is year-over-year depth and to translate HS recruiting rankings into collegiate performance. Malzahn has a surface level history of being a "good recruiter", but Auburn's problems and his eventual dismissal were largely the result of fundamental recruiting failures. For example, many of his classes ranked highly but year-over-year failure in recruiting OL meant that he was filling his classes with fluff with no real substance. We'd sign three of four 4-star WR's, which he wouldn't even know how to properly utilize or develop, but none of that even matters because he didn't sign the linemen required in this conference to actually block and allow the QB the protection to get the ball to those 4-star WR's. His classes also suffered from extremely high flameout rates and bust rates of elite recruits. Go look at the 2018 class - the four best/highest ranked signees (Joey Gatewood, Matthew Hill, Coynis Miller, and Harold Joiner) ALL transferred out and in essence didn't provide any value for Auburn. So that 2018 class ranked 12th nationally, and 3rd in the SEC, but those rankings don't mean ANYTHING if all your best signees either: don't develop, don't perform, or don't even stay in the program. Alabama wins because Nick Saban turns recruiting success into on-field success. When Alabama signs a 5-star, how often does that player fail to pan out? At minimum their elite signees go on to become good starters. Very many of them go on to become elite players and 1st round picks. For Malzahn, you find guys like Byron Cowart and Calvin Ashley: two of Auburn's highest ranked recruits ever, who did nothing on the field for Auburn and transferred out. Recruiting doesn't mean **** unless the players are developed and utilized properly. Malzahn is the poster-boy for "paper recruiting": the classes look pretty good on the surface, but he's not filling SEC needs and most of his best recruits aren't even developing. I can go on and on with names like Nate Craig-Myers and Kyle Davis.

There is also other mind numbingly absurd recruiting/roster management failures with Malzahn. Like the revolving situation where he has zero SEC-caliber OT's on the roster, doesn't sign any in recruiting, but then for some reason he has 6-7 scholarship TE's - a position that he doesn't even utilize or get the ball to. So he's recruiting and signing pass-catching HS TE's that come into Auburn and are lucky to get 10 balls thrown their way over the course of a full season. Meanwhile he goes out and signs an OL class consisting of 2-3 interior linemen and zero tackles, when his offense literally ONLY works when he's had dominant OL play. Stuff like that is HS-level failure.
 
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#114
#114
metafour said:
This is another thing I need to comment on.

The end-goal in recruiting isn't to "win the 247.com team recruiting rankings" - it's to properly fill the holes on your team so there is year-over-year depth and to translate HS recruiting rankings into collegiate performance. Malzahn has a surface level history of being a "good recruiter", but Auburn's problems and his eventual dismissal were largely the result of fundamental recruiting failures. For example, many of his classes ranked highly but year-over-year failure in recruiting OL meant that he was filling his classes with fluff with no real substance. We'd sign three of four 4-star WR's, which he wouldn't even know how to properly utilize or develop, but none of that even matters because he didn't sign the linemen required in this conference to actually block and allow the QB the protection to get the ball to those 4-star WR's. His classes also suffered from extremely high flameout rates and bust rates of elite recruits. Go look at the 2018 class - the four best/highest ranked signees (Joey Gatewood, Matthew Hill, Coynis Miller, and Harold Joiner) ALL transferred out and in essence didn't provide any value for Auburn. So that 2018 class ranked 12th nationally, and 3rd in the SEC, but those rankings don't mean ANYTHING if all your best signees either: don't develop, don't perform, or don't even stay in the program. Alabama wins because Nick Saban turns recruiting success into on-field success. When Alabama signs a 5-star, how often does that player fail to pan out? At minimum their elite signees go on to become good starters. Very many of them go on to become elite players and 1st round picks. For Malzahn, you find guys like Byron Cowart and Calvin Ashley: two of Auburn's highest ranked recruits ever, who did nothing on the field for Auburn and transferred out. Recruiting doesn't mean **** unless the players are developed and utilized properly. Malzahn is the poster-boy for "paper recruiting": the classes look pretty good on the surface, but he's not filling SEC needs and most of his best recruits aren't even developing. I can go on and on with names like Nate Craig-Myers and Kyle Davis.

There is also other mind numbingly absurd recruiting/roster management failures with Malzahn. Like the revolving situation where he has zero SEC-caliber OT's on the roster, doesn't sign any in recruiting, but then for some reason he has 6-7 scholarship TE's - a position that he doesn't even utilize or get the ball to. So he's recruiting and signing pass-catching HS TE's that come into Auburn and are lucky to get 10 balls thrown their way over the course of a full season. Meanwhile he goes out and signs an OL class consisting of 2-3 interior linemen and zero tackles, when his offense literally ONLY works when he's had dominant OL play. Stuff like that is HS-level failure.
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Correct sir. The best coaching staffs are the ones that are great teachers and can develop the players on the squad. I'm sure you all saw the numbers of top recruits that were in the Superbowl. There weren't many. Saban always, always, always references "the process." That means player development. Guys like Urban Meyer, David Shaw, Pete Carroll, etc. These people took the raw talent and developed it into successful CFB players, and more often than not great NFL talent. How good might have Bryce Brown been with some player development at some point in his career? He had the talent, absolutely. But in the end, nothing became of that talent because it wasn't handled properly. I hope our staff makes the most of our squads.
 
#115
#115
SGMVols said:
He definitely has a higher floor than Heupel IMO, but also a lower ceiling. I mean, Pruitt was literally calling out to our players exactly what he was going to run before the ball was even snapped, and he was guessing correctly.

Time will tell if we missed out on a “football Rick Barnes” but there’s probably a valid reason Auburn got rid of him.
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Exactly. People have caught on to his scheme. I think Malzahn will be successful at UCF, but I don’t think he would be at Tennessee.
 
#116
#116
Well considering Gus got run off from one unrealistic SEC fan base at Auburn, maybe he wanted a change of pace?
 
#117
#117
jonnon111 said:
Well considering Gus got run off from one unrealistic SEC fan base at Auburn, maybe he wanted a change of pace?
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No doubt. Auburn and UT are two of the worst jobs in football. Aside from our likely sanctions, I think Auburn is the worst. UGA, Bama, LSU every year and your celler dweller teams are now coached by Leach and Kiffin
 
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#119
#119
volfan_28 said:
JH needed a fresh start after going backwards at UCF. People were losing confidence in him there.
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A+ for the spin.

So, JH left a better job (UCF) because he was going backwards, and people were losing confidence in him there. Except DW, who is now here, was the only guy's confidence that mattered, and he is still confident enough to drag JH along to a lesser job (UT), for a fresh start.....in the SEC meatgrinder.

Alrighty then.
 
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#120
#120
I never liked Guz when he was to Auburn. I am glad he isn't here. I am excited to see our Offense play.
 
#122
#122
jonnon111 said:
Well considering Gus got run off from one unrealistic SEC fan base at Auburn, maybe he wanted a change of pace?
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"Unrealistic fan base" LMAO.

He was paid a Top 5 coaching salary to produce Top 20 results. Given carte blanche to hire/fire multiple OC's who he threw under the bus to explain away his own offensive ineptitude. His staff at Auburn was one of the highest paid in the country - Kevin Steele was making $2.5 mill a year to be the DC, and really, that defense had been carrying Malzahn in the past ~3 years.

When you actually look at his metrics and performance, Gus Malzahn was one of the most overpaid coaches in the country. He was given YEARS to fix the problems on his teams - he changed nothing. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic with Auburn's fanbase - Malzahn actually still somehow had supporters and people upset that he was let go despite being an 8-5 coach being paid $7 mill a year and getting blown out by everyone with a pulse. I'm mind blown that there are SEC fans who see him as some great coach who was unfairly treated by expectations? You go 8-5 and lose to Minnesota in a Bowl game and that's a $7 million coaching performance?

He had also completely lost whatever "drive" he had to be great. Before he was fired he actually referred to this 2020 season as a "good year" and that with normal scheduling (ie: cupcake games) it would be an 8-win season, which in his mind is "a solid season". He should have been fired years ago in actuality.
 
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#123
#123
metafour said:
"Unrealistic fan base" LMAO.

He was paid a Top 5 coaching salary to produce Top 20 results. Given carte blanche to hire/fire multiple OC's who he threw under the bus to explain away his own offensive ineptitude. His staff at Auburn was one of the highest paid in the country - Kevin Steele was making $2.5 mill a year to be the DC, and really, that defense had been carrying Malzahn in the past ~3 years.

When you actually look at his metrics and performance, Gus Malzahn was one of the most overpaid coaches in the country. He was given YEARS to fix the problems on his teams - he changed nothing. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic with Auburn's fanbase - Malzahn actually still somehow had supporters and people upset that he was let go despite being an 8-5 coach being paid $7 mill a year and getting blown out by everyone with a pulse. I'm mind blown that there are SEC fans who see him as some great coach who was unfairly treated by expectations? You go 8-5 and lose to Minnesota in a Bowl game and that's a $7 million coaching performance?

He had also completely lost whatever "drive" he had to be great. Before he was fired he actually referred to this 2020 season as a "good year" and that with normal scheduling (ie: cupcake games) it would be an 8-win season, which in his mind is "a solid season". He should have been fired years ago in actuality.
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This is what a fanbase with expectations sounds like. ^^^

Sadly, we've lost that 'drive'.
 
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