Malzahn

#76
#76
Would have been a decent bridge for through the pently years. Just as JH will be.
 
#78
#78
JonGrudensAgent said:
I think Malzahn would have offered a stabilizing influence being a known commodity. Wasn't in my top 5 but it would have made sense.

Could have made things competitive with FL and GA at least and set the table for the next guy.

As it stands, Heupel looks more like a panic hire by White after getting shot down a few times.

And UCF looks like they may have upgraded their situation.

That will be the perception anyway. It's up to Heupel to change that on the field this Fall.
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I'll give White more credit than that. Malzahn would have thought himself more of a $6-7 million per year coach and he would have demanded a larger buyout and longer term. Essentially UT would have been stuck with him even if he failed to win and drove the roster into the ground.

Heupel is less proven. But he's the kind of coach who is himself stabile and good with players. Worst case he gets you through whatever sanctions are coming and then is much easier to separate from if he doesn't show progress on the field.

I think the risk-reward analysis was better than you give credit for.

PS- I think the same was likely true of other coaches like Chadwell. Heupel may (or may not) be as good of a coach but he did not have the image status to demand a contract that would have hobbled UT for years.
 
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#80
#80
Well, we have our prom date.

You can choose to stare at the girl that either you didn't ask or turned you down, or you could get to know the one you are with.

One thing is for sure, if you choose to demean the one you are with, you will have a terrible time and blame it on someone else.
 
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#81
#81
Roustabout said:
Dude, we likely could have gotten him cheap as his buyout from Auburn was astronomical and guaranteed. Ceiling? He won the SEC and played in the BCS championship gaming losing by 3. Are you fugging kidding me?
Improvement? Holy **** yes it would be an improvement. Not to mention he did this while being in the same division with the most dominant program in modern history.

Holy freaking shat, wtf is wrong with you people???! Do you realize the state of things at UT?

UCF is freaking high-fiving that White and Heupel are gone. They just hit the lottery and we paid for the ticket.
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Yes
 
#82
#82
JonGrudensAgent said:
I think Malzahn would have offered a stabilizing influence being a known commodity. Wasn't in my top 5 but it would have made sense.

Could have made things competitive with FL and GA at least and set the table for the next guy.

As it stands, Heupel looks more like a panic hire by White after getting shot down a few times.

And UCF looks like they may have upgraded their situation.

That will be the perception anyway. It's up to Heupel to change that on the field this Fall.
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Yep....AD White went on a nationwide search for a HC and hired Heupel that was down the hall from White at UCF....I won't be shocked (don't think it will happen) if the nationwide search for a DC leads to hiring Shannon.
 
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#83
#83
vol66 said:
The Steele hire is gonna be a lasting mystery. Why even bother?
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A former AD did this to block the Malzahn hire at UT or a former HC did this to block his potential replacement.

Because, Malzahn to UT just made all the sense in the world in terms of hiring a proven winner at a power 5.
 
#85
#85
sjt18 said:
I'll give White more credit than that. Malzahn would have thought himself more of a $6-7 million per year coach and he would have demanded a larger buyout and longer term. Essentially UT would have been stuck with him even if he failed to win and drove the roster into the ground.

Heupel is less proven. But he's the kind of coach who is himself stabile and good with players. Worst case he gets you through whatever sanctions are coming and then is much easier to separate from if he doesn't show progress on the field.

I think the risk-reward analysis was better than you give credit for.

PS- I think the same was likely true of other coaches like Chadwell. Heupel may (or may not) be as good of a coach but he did not have the image status to demand a contract that would have hobbled UT for years.
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Wasn't so much approaching that post as risk-reward or cost benefit versus the perception of things as they stand.

It just looks bad that UCF can land a proven SEC coach and UT takes a chance on a guy with less track record and a bad W/L trend at his previous stop.

I think you're right though that Malzahn has hit his ceiling whereas we don't know on Heupel. Money wise, it obviously makes sense if you look at it in terms of buying wins. Malzahn probably isn't a huge number of wins better than Heupel short term.

Heupel can put the negative narratives to rest by winning in the Fall.

I am hopeful that his offensive prowess can generate some unexpected wins and rejuvenate recruiting. And I just generally like his attitude a lot more than Pruitt or Jones so far.
 
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#86
#86
As a Vol fan, I have no interest in Malzahn and where he may wind up.
The same goes for Muschamp and Mason.
 
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#87
#87
sjt18 said:
Can you elaborate?
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I kind of already did in a previous thread on your coaching search (search my posts).

The posts I've seen in this thread post Malzahn in the shiniest light imaginable. In reality his incompetence and failure runs very deep. Did you guys know that Colby Smith, the 2021 OT that we just signed away from you guys after Pruitt was fired, is the first HS OT since 2017 or 2018 to sign with Auburn? Malzahn has absolutely decimated the OL situation at Auburn. And this is an "offensive minded" HC. Imagine that for a second.

Then I see things like: "he almost won a National Championship in 2013". That was 8 years ago, in his very first season, with Chizik's players (most notably the OL left over by Jeff Grimes who is now the OC at Baylor). Auburn also blew one of the biggest leads you'll see in "Championship Game" history in that game. The very next season Auburn was 8-5. Two years after almost winning the Championship, Auburn was 7-6 under Malzahn. How is that even possible? In reality, the Championship appearance in his very first season was a total fluke. You'll find with Malzahn that his best talent is tripping his way into "greatness", and then due to incompetence he not only can't build on any success, but he actually manages to completely tank it somehow.

Then I see: "he's beaten Saban three times!". Stuff like that means nothing once you consider how much he lost to everyone else that would be considered a "rival". And these weren't competitive games, they were blowouts. Beating Saban three times should mean that you have the capacity to compete with everyone - with Malzahn you'll find that he can somehow challenge Saban reasonably, but then subsequently he's 2-5 in Bowl games with losses to UCF and Minnesota - two teams playing with half the talent that Auburn fields, who basically dominated us. He's beaten Saban three times, but he lost to Will Muschamp this season - in year 8 he's losing to a coach at South Carolina who would go on to get fired. He also lost to Pruitt, and really, you guys were making a game out of it this year as well before Guarantano gift-wrapped us the game with that pick-6 in the redzone. Check his record against Georgia and LSU as well.

He has zero idea how to develop or utilize quarterbacks and his offense was a total novelty that has been figured out. He hasn't been able to evolve or adapt. All of the quarterbacks who had success at Auburn under him: Chris Todd, Cam Newton, Nick Marshall, Jarrett Stidham were transfers who were developed elsewhere or had prior coaching by someone else in a different system. Malzahn's HS signees at the position have been complete flops with zero development - and he's recruited "highly regarded" quarterbacks. Consider this: 2020 Auburn had a 5-star QB (Nix), two NFL-caliber receivers (Seth Williams & Schwartz), an absolute freak talent at RB (Tank Bigsby) and yet it produced the season that you just witnessed. A loss to South Carolina and a 27-6 beatdown to Georgia playing with a WALK-ON QB who was like 4th string on their depth chart.
 
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#88
#88
Majors said:
He was 25 million reasons not to come here. He can go to UCF, live nice, recruit locally, win a ton of games and go on TV saying they need to be in the playoffs. When the Arkansas job opens up, he goes back home and to the SEC West.
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I think for a while that Pittman will remain at Arky. Maybe quite a while. Arky will never hire GM.
 
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#89
#89
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Auburn was 68-35 under Malzahn. The 11th best record in college football for that time period, despite playing in the toughest division in the game. Tennessee in contrast had the 66th best record in CFB during that time, 50-48. But, sure, knowing our fans, why wouldn't we be too good for Gus Malzahn? That's exactly what got us here.
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Take away year 1 when he had Chizeks team and he’s a 7-5 8-4 coach. VN hates those guys!
 
#91
#91
OriginalCoach said:
I think for a while that Pittman will remain at Arky. Maybe quite a while. Arky will never hire GM.
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Possibly, year 2-3 will determine that. Not sure Ark will never hire Gus, if he gets a chance to go home and say the landscape of the West changes I could see them going all in on him.
 
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#92
#92
Malzahns offense over the last 2-3 years has been rather bad, but the guy is a good coach as indicated by his overall 68-35 record and 3 wins over Saban. It was time for him to move on from Auburn as sometimes something new can be very refreshing and invigorating. I think he will do well at UCF and I'd take him in a heartbeat. Heupels record at UCF actually regressed over the 3 years he was at UCF... and that is concerning.
 
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#93
#93
unfrozencvmanvol said:
Chizik's team went 3-9 the year before though.
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Chizik lost the locker room and there was a ton of off-field problems that were going on. That was not a "3-9" team based off of talent. Chizik actually recruited fairly well and Malzahn walked into a situation where everything clicked for him and the pieces were in place. That 2013 OL led by Greg Robinson would be the best OL under Malzahn's entire tenure as the HC at Auburn.
 
#95
#95
orange blossom said:
Malzahns offense over the last 2-3 years has been rather bad, but the guy is a good coach as indicated by his overall 68-35 record and 3 wins over Saban. It was time for him to move on from Auburn as sometimes something new can be very refreshing and invigorating. I think he will do well at UCF and I'd take him in a heartbeat. Heupels record at UCF actually regressed over the 3 years he was at UCF... and that is concerning.
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Heupel inherited an undefeated team. Regression from that is inevitable. No one is going to go undefeated three years in a row.
 
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#96
#96
metafour said:
Chizik lost the locker room and there was a ton of off-field problems that were going on. That was not a "3-9" team based off of talent. Chizik actually recruited fairly well and Malzahn walked into a situation where everything clicked for him and the pieces were in place. That 2013 OL led by Greg Robinson would be the best OL under Malzahn's entire tenure as the HC at Auburn.
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So we didn't want a coach with a track record of quickly turning around an essentially talented team that has been plagued by bad coaching and administrative dysfunction. Gotcha. Sounds like another program I know.
 
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#99
#99
Jaws said:
Mahlzahn is a good recruiter too and has always been a good play caller. His offense was innovative and new when he first came onto the scene, and he rode that for several really good years. The only criticism could be a little too inconsistent, up and down, they could beat Bama or LSU one week and lose to Miss State the following week. Also, it can be said that he was a little slow making changes as the league sorta caught up to his offense, he’s a little stubborn that way.

But would have been an excellent hire for Tennessee in my opinion.
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I personally think he would have been a middling hire. He's not a bad coach, but what's the point of hiring a guy with an 8- or 9-win ceiling that you're going to have to fire in 4-5 years?

And you're right about him not adapting once SEC defenses caught up. That's my biggest issue (that and lack of player development on offense). Malzahn feels a bit like RichRod to me; a guy with a hot offense who had some major success but who couldn't sustain it once everyone caught onto it. His offenses have been hot garbage for several years now and Auburn has really only been competitive due to Kevin Steele's defenses. So if we hired Malzahn, we'd basically just be hiring him because he's a great recruiter. And that's probably good enough to make us a 6 to 8 win team in an ultra-competitive SEC, but not much more.

I don't think hiring these offensive scheme gurus as Head Coaches ever really works out long-term. It's normally a short-lived competitive advantage. The coaches that have sustained success on offense tend to be the "player development" coaches like Saban, Dabo, Cutcliffe, and Mullen. Look at Chip Kelly, the ultimate offensive guru; he's a shell of his former self. You can innovate with scheme and have great results for a few years, but after that, defenses catch up. The SEC has caught up to Malzahn; unless he starts "innovating" again, I don't think he'll ever compete for a national title again.

I'd rather take my chances with Heupel. He's no sure thing, but if can simply find a DC that works with his offense, he's got a shot. And our roster of QBs could be absolutely loaded for several years now, so have a guy who can develop QBs make a lot of sense.
 
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