Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

#677
#677
If it is Bobby, that's so much worse for the police than simply finding out Avery is innocent. Every one of these guys would need to be fired and some belong behind bars.
 
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#678
#678
I don't think there's any way they're going to look at anything with Avery. No way anyone will admit they screwed up this big.
 
#679
#679
If I were Avery's defense team, I would try to get Trump to tweet about it!
 
#680
#680
SWIL said:
If I were Avery's defense team, I would try to get Trump to tweet about it!
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It wouldn't be in Trump's best interest to take the side of Avery in a case that makes the police look so bad. If he could somehow pin this on a liberal DA, he'd be all over it.
 
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#682
#682
Anybody watch season 2 yet?

A few thoughts:

I have no faith in the judicial system. It's a complete absurdity that the Seventh Circuit would overturn the magistrate's ruling on Dassey. All these ****ing guys are worrying about every jot and tittle*, meanwhile, innocent people are wasting away in jail.

Avery's new lawyer is annoying, but it seems like she's going to win this thing.

The coroner's interview was the most compelling part of the season.

* The one judge was asking the defense to ascribe a motive to the police...why? How bad do you have to be at your job if that's a detail you are worried about? His first reaction is to think defensively for the LEO's.
 
#683
#683
n_huffhines said:
Anybody watch season 2 yet?

A few thoughts:

I have no faith in the judicial system. It's a complete absurdity that the Seventh Circuit would overturn the magistrate's ruling on Dassey. All these ****ing guys are worrying about every jot and tittle*, meanwhile, innocent people are wasting away in jail.

Avery's new lawyer is annoying, but it seems like she's going to win this thing.

The coroner's interview was the most compelling part of the season.

* The one judge was asking the defense to ascribe a motive to the police...why? How bad do you have to be at your job if that's a detail you are worried about? His first reaction is to think defensively for the LEO's.
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I've seen just the first episode of the second season. This case makes my head hurt when I think about it. I'm not convinced Avery didn't kill Halbach, have something to do with her death/destroying the body, or knows more than he is saying about the murder, but I am pretty convinced he didn't get a fair trial and guilt didn't appear to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. On that basis alone, he should have been found not guilty. And of course what they did to Dassey was an absolute travesty.
 
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#684
#684
I'll check back when I finish the season. Only 3 episodes deep but Zellner doesn't have much human left in her.
 
#685
#685
Oh, another key part, it seems extremely likely that the investigators intentionally suppressed evidence (incriminating to Bobby D) they found on the computer by 1) not bringing it to anybody's attention, and 2) labeling the evidence incorrectly so nobody from the defense would look there. There is no way anybody can believe that all of these problems are honest mistakes.
 
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#686
#686
SWIL said:
If I were Avery's defense team, I would try to get Trump to tweet about it!
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Nah that would make it worse. Trump is into conspiracies, not into reality, so his tweet would make Avery's defense lose credibility.
 
#687
#687
I fully believe that Brendan Dassey is innocent. It's really sad to think that he's going to spend his whole life in prison for a crime he had no apart of. If only Brendan would have said I want a lawyer and said nothing he would have never been convicted, but he had no clue of his rights or the ability to even comprehend it. They definitely took advantage of an innocent mentally disabled kid.

I have my doubts with Avery, I'm on the fence on if he did it or not. He definitely didn't get a fair trial and he spent all of that money on a terrible defense team. I'd say he'd be a free man if he had Zellner from the very beginning.
 
#688
#688
n_huffhines said:
Avery's new lawyer is annoying, but it seems like she's going to win this thing.
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I haven't watched the new season yet, but I've been following the updates in the press and reading the rulings. So far, her efforts to get a new trial have been a series of wet farts.
 
#689
#689
n_huffhines said:
Oh, another key part, it seems extremely likely that the investigators intentionally suppressed evidence (incriminating to Bobby D) they found on the computer by 1) not bringing it to anybody's attention, and 2) labeling the evidence incorrectly so nobody from the defense would look there. There is no way anybody can believe that all of these problems are honest mistakes.
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The defense already lost that battle. They had every single piece of evidence off the computer. They simply didn't look at it.
 
#690
#690
Stoked said:
I have my doubts with Avery, I'm on the fence on if he did it or not. He definitely didn't get a fair trial and he spent all of that money on a terrible defense team. I'd say he'd be a free man if he had Zellner from the very beginning.
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I love how Strang and Buting were lauded as heroes during the first season, but now that ineffective assistance of counsel is part of the plea for a new trial, they were terrible and Zellner is the new hero.
 
#691
#691
bamawriter said:
I love how Strang and Buting were lauded as heroes during the first season, but now that ineffective assistance of counsel is part of the plea for a new trial, they were terrible and Zellner is the new hero.
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Makes for better TV
 
#692
#692
bamawriter said:
I love how Strang and Buting were lauded as heroes during the first season, but now that ineffective assistance of counsel is part of the plea for a new trial, they were terrible and Zellner is the new hero.
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lol

I thought Strang and Buting seemed like genuine guys, especially for lawyers. Within 2 minutes of watching Zellner in season 2, I thought "ambulance chaser." That figures because she's getting involved after this case has become famous.

This is such a fascinating case and ties you up in knots because the hypotheses posited by both sides aren't mutually exclusive. It seems totally reasonable to me that Steven Avery committed/aided in/knows more than what he's saying about Halbach's murder, but he was also railroaded by the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department and prosecutor, which means he should be not guilty.

The County very well could have reached their conclusion first (Avery did it) then searched for evidence for their theory, which is going about it backwards, but it also doesn't automatically mean their conclusion is incorrect.
 
#693
#693
bamawriter said:
The defense already lost that battle. They had every single piece of evidence off the computer. They simply didn't look at it.
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There was a mountain of evidence to look at. They purposefully buried it by labeling the evidence as Brandon Dassy's computer, not Bobby's. Not sure what your point is, but my point is the cops are corrupt and this is not justice, regardless of what BD's attorneys failed to do.
 
#694
#694
bamawriter said:
The defense already lost that battle. They had every single piece of evidence off the computer. They simply didn't look at it.
Click to expand...

There was a mountain of evidence to look at. They purposefully buried it by labeling the evidence as Brandon Dassy's computer, not Bobby's. Not sure what your point is, but my point is the cops are corrupt and this is not justice, regardless of what the defense attorneys failed to do.
 
#695
#695
n_huffhines said:
There was a mountain of evidence to look at. They purposefully buried it by labeling the evidence as Brandon Dassy's computer, not Bobby's. Not sure what your point is, but my point is the cops are corrupt and this is not justice, regardless of what BD's attorneys failed to do.
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If your point is about Brendan Dassey, I'm with you in believing he was railroaded. However, Zellner is Avery's attorney, and the issue with the computer was from Avery's appeal.

It was all the same computer, everyone in the house had access and used it. To claim that it was "mislabeled" is completely disingenuous. Every bit of what was on that computer was turned over by the State during discovery. The post-conviction courts were right to toss this claim.
 
#696
#696
bamawriter said:
If your point is about Brendan Dassey, I'm with you in believing he was railroaded. However, Zellner is Avery's attorney, and the issue with the computer was from Avery's appeal.

It was all the same computer, everyone in the house had access and used it. To claim that it was "mislabeled" is completely disingenuous. Every bit of what was on that computer was turned over by the State during discovery. The post-conviction courts were right to toss this claim.
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There was incriminating evidence on the computer, it just incriminated the wrong person. At the very least, they mislabeled it by saying there was nothing noteworthy on there. Since Bobby Dassey is a person who could have committed this crime, if you're doing your job of trying to get to the bottom of this murder, then you label this.

Family computer
Bobby Dassey - incriminating evidence
Brandon Dassey - nothing of note

If you're trying to get a conviction, damn the facts, you do it the way they did it.
 
#697
#697
n_huffhines said:
There was incriminating evidence on the computer, it just incriminated the wrong person. At the very least, they mislabeled it by saying there was nothing noteworthy on there. Since Bobby Dassey is a person who could have committed this crime, if you're doing your job of trying to get to the bottom of this murder, then you label this.

Family computer
Bobby Dassey - incriminating evidence
Brandon Dassey - nothing of note

If you're trying to get a conviction, damn the facts, you do it the way they did it.
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It's not the State's job to tell the defense if something is incriminating. The State's only responsibility is letting the defense know if something is exculpatory.
 
#700
#700
bamawriter said:
Based on reading thousands of pages of trial transcript, I believe they did.

I want Brendan Dassey released. But Steven Avery should rot.
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OK, but that doesn't excuse this incident and all the other **** the state did. I'm not arguing for Avery's innocence.
 
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