Let's Talk About Sin

#679
#679
Orange_Crush said:
I think it does, and not just within the church. Remember, when the disciples asked Jesus for the signs of the end times, Jesus' first words were, "Be ye not deceived..." I do think we are seeing an increase in false teachers within the church today.

I detest the "prosperity gospel" being taught today. It's not scriptural. It sets people up for ruined expectations. Jesus said to expect suffering. When you claim that Christianity is the fix for what ails you, people become disheartened and leave the faith when adversity comes, because they accepted the wrong faith.

But in the end, I don't get too worked up about end times and sky watching. The Bible says to live like He is imminent. That's an oxymoron. Live life He could come in the next second, while living like there is still much to be done.

:hi:
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I agree. I've been listening to John MacArthur some and he is actually speaking about this very issue. His website has on demand sermons available and Right now he's preaching about how to recognize false apostles. He spoke about John 6 yesterday (Thursday).
 
#680
#680
mtt2d said:
I agree. I've been listening to John MacArthur some and he is actually speaking about this very issue. His website has on demand sermons available and Right now he's preaching about how to recognize false apostles. He spoke about John 6 yesterday (Thursday).
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I disagree in some areas of theology, but I really like MacArthur.
 
#681
#681
mtt2d said:
I agree. I've been listening to John MacArthur some and he is actually speaking about this very issue. His website has on demand sermons available and Right now he's preaching about how to recognize false apostles. He spoke about John 6 yesterday (Thursday).
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We need a Pre vs. Mid vs. Post thread.
We would need to put the band of DS's on ignore though.
 
#682
#682
orangeslice13 said:
So now we are posting randem gifs that don't apply or mean anything? Ok I'll play.

katy-perry-1.gif
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Lust is a deadly sin, my friend. :)
 
#683
#683
orangeslice13 said:
We need a Pre vs. Mid vs. Post thread.
We would need to put the band of DS's on ignore though.
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If we really want to spice it up, we could add Amill to the conversation. We'd be insulting each other worse than MP does within 30 minutes.

Not really.

Well maybe.

Not really.

I hope.
 
#688
#688
BigOrangeTrain said:
The country is getting worse, there is more people on welfare, jobless and people are overall getting dumber. Funny, [God is being pushed out and the bad just keeps rolling in.
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If you study the Bible, it says as time goes on people will slip farther and farther from God.
 
#689
#689
MercyPercy said:
People have been claiming the end of days is coming real soon for quite some time now. There's always some sign or another. Whatcha got for us, Pat Robertson?

I need to know when to wear my Sunday best.
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Drive by a cemetery and asked those folks when the end is coming.
 
#691
#691
Vol8188 said:
He is very strict on baby murder and rape.
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How do you know this? Have you spoken to one? Have you even seen one? Has it even written down a code of ethics for you to live by? If so, I'd like to see it for myself dude. Point me to that. So, what's there to keep you from killing babies & from baby rape Einstein? You have no moral code that you adhere to....being that you have unbelief in a higher authority. You have no moral code to live by. You're nothing but a waste of air.
 
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#692
#692
BigOrangeTrain said:
The country is getting worse, there is more people on welfare, jobless and people are overall getting dumber. Funny, God is being pushed out and the bad just keeps rolling in.
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I wonder how people in Great Depression era would have viewed this statement when compared to the quality of life now.

I've said it before - what you see depends on where you sit. If you're looking for bad stuff, you'll certainly find it.
 
#694
#694
I'm gonna get bashed for this post, but I wouldn't expect any less considering the majority of this forum is populated by believers. I'm not going to lie and say that I tried to put things as delicately as I could, or attempted to mitigate any patronizing that occurred. I'm just a person trying to understand a certain mindset belonging to a certain type of person. Peace. :hi:
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First, I actually appreciate someone candidly sharing with me why they believe what they believe. And I hope you won't consider it bashing to have someone examine and challenge your beliefs.

MercyPercy said:
Actually, this brings up a good point about why I do continue to harass you good god fearing folk. The truth is, I'm intensely fascinated by the religious condition. The idea that so many people will disregard reality and put their faith in fiction really does fascinate me to no end. Of course, I have my own theories on what drives people towards religious belief.
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Let's start here. I'm also facinated by this. And to some extent, I agree that many disregard reality. Eastern religions, for example, reject the law of non-contradiction. I have friends who are practicing Hindus who are doctors and scientist. To practice medicine, they literally have to reject, or set aside, the same beliefs they are dependent on to practice their faith.

OK, so the problem here is you assume ANY religion (and I'm using that word losely) is disregarding reality. That is a question begging proposition and prejuducial. Not to mention that you are infering an objective reality and making an objective truth claim.

1.) Indoctrination. You love your momma and daddy with all your heart, and think the world of them. The thought that they could have been wrong about god and lying to you as a child is unfathomable. You put your unwavering trust in them and the church they brought you to. This also involves peer pressure, as one would be less inclined to dissent when their entire community operates in faith. To publicly disagree with aspects of your faith in a faith centered community is a frightening prospect to many.

And yet, many people who went through the process of indoctrination come to their senses and leave the church. So, simple indoctrination cannot explain the attraction in total.
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This is a common argument. The problem is that you have to be willing to follow it all the way through. There seems to be programmed into us a natural tendency to be skeptical and challenge our raising. If what you state is true, then I shouldn't be a Christian. I should be a secular atheist. Since we have been under seperation of church and state for a long while, couldn't we also state that the reason there are more atheist is because our education system is teaching secular materialsim as the EXCLUSIVE philosophical ideology?

2.) Lack of education. The less one knows about science and the natural world they live in, the easier it is to dismiss their superiors and continue to surround themselves in a veil of ignorance. It's no surprise that the more educated and those with higher IQs are less religious. When one furthers their education, their understanding about the process of evolution, carbon dating, and other areas of science will often lead them to question their religious beliefs, as they are often not compatible with their new-found understanding.
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This is also a statistical fallacy. It's prejudicial and a form of snobbery. It is also committing the fallacy of reification. Carbon dating doesn't do any such thing.

And yet, I know people with no college education who left their beliefs behind. Obviously, further education is not the only thing that frees the mind from its religious restraints.
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This honestly sounds like a religious statement. You are inferring a MEANING to life, which is to free the mind. But, if your secular, atheistic, materialism is correct, then why does it matter? It's arbitrary and meaningless. A form of self-delusion, which ironically, you are accusing us of holding. That there is an intellectual, self-aware form of life that is wired to search for meaning, only to find out that there is no meaning, is the cruelist joke of nature.

3.) Pride. For someone who spent their entire life believing in a deity, to have contradicting views threatening their way of life is immensely offensive. Not only is it offensive, but scary, because if these opposing views are correct, you would have to admit to yourself that you've been massively duped. Not just scammed by some online identity thief. You've been scammed to the very core of your being, and you've been on your knees worshiping something that doesn't exist. For someone with a large amount of pride, it must be nearly impossible to even consider the consequences of being wrong about this.

And yet, I still see prideful people who left the church later in life. So pride is not the linchpin of belief.
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The problem here is I can make the exact same argument pointed in the opposite direction. It's arbirtrary. It has nothing to do with whether something is actually true or not. If I am raised as a secular atheist all my life, that doesn't determine whether what I believe is true or false.

4.) Fear. This, in my humble opinion, is the strongest force in maintaining one's faith. There are two specific, yet intertwined fears. I think there is a certain type of person with a typecast mentality that these fears really effect. The first fear is the fear of nothing after death. The idea that we simply rot in the ground after we die is so scary to people who strive for meaning in their lives that they rationalize an afterlife. Once this fabrication is maintained, they can operate with much greater peace of mind. The second fear is the fear of hell, which inspires them to go to church, tithe, etc. While many would spin it another way, I'm particularly convinced that this fear is inherently selfish. They participate in their own Pascal's Wager, believing it's better to be safe than sorry. So instead of doing good things or being kind out of their own prerogative, they do it to secure their place in heaven and avoid the the punishment of hell. The people with this mentality, the overwhelming fear of death, are the ones who flock to god the most.

And that is why I believe fear is the greatest determining factor of many people of faith, though the first three things I also talked about certainly play a part as well.
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First, Pascal's wager is NOT a tenet of Christianity. Period, end of story.
Next, Fear. Let's say you wake up and you smell smoke and hear your smoke detector going off. You start to evacuate the house, but then stop and think, 'wait a minute, why should I give in to the fear or dying or getting burned? I'll just stay right here.' Well, that would be stupid. Fear itself, is not a bad thing. Fear, concern, etc. can be a valid response to a given circumstance.
If Hell is real, then I would think it quite wise to not want to go there and to desire to save others from it.

Yes, some people will believe something to assuage a fear, etc. But again, this doesn't determine whether their belief is rooted in fact or fiction. Again, a double edged sword.
My friend was just diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma. He couldn't see the lymphoma. He had this for a good while with virtually no symptoms. The doctor persuaded him through testing that he was very sick. My friend was scared. And rightly so. He put his confidence in the surgeon, and trusted the fearful diagnosis, and thus allowed that doctor to cut open his chest cavity. Shame on him.
 
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