Let's Talk About Sin

#26
#26
Daloth said:
Anyone who thinks all sin are equal are fools.

If I kill a hundred people in cold blood, torturing them while I do it, you tell me that it's the same as telling my girlfriend I didn't get her something expensive for her birthday when I really did? No.

As for the rest, I think religious people especially have a hard time grasping that morality can exist without the fear of punishment or the idea of "sin." Personally, I find it far more impressive and meaningful to do good deeds (or not do bad ones) because you have a sense of morality compared to doing it out of fear of punishment in the next life.
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Disregard.
 
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#28
#28
Daloth said:
As for the rest, I think religious people especially have a hard time grasping that morality can exist without the fear of punishment or the idea of "sin." Personally, I find it far more impressive and meaningful to do good deeds (or not do bad ones) because you have a sense of morality compared to doing it out of fear of punishment in the next life.
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I don't and won't speak for all religious people but I think at least some can grasp morality without fear/punishment - I can see how their religion is simply the way the conceive of morality and that fear/punishment is simply metaphorical. My folks are religious but I seriously doubt they believe in Hell. They have an internal sense of right and wrong and use the church as social connection, connection with something larger than themselves, etc. The religion is consistent with their values rather than vice versa.

Your post also brings up and entirely different issue of whether or not there is such thing as a selfless act. If it is meaningful to do the right thing then isn't one doing that for personal satisfaction?
 
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#29
#29
volinbham said:
I don't and won't speak for all religious people but I think at least some can grasp morality without fear/punishment - I can see how their religion is simply the way the conceive of morality and that fear/punishment is simply metaphorical. My folks are religious but I seriously doubt they believe in Hell. They have an internal sense of right and wrong and use the church as social connection, connection with something larger than themselves, etc. The religion is consistent with their values rather than vice versa.

Your post also brings up and entirely different issue of whether or not there is such thing as a selfless act. If it is meaningful to do the right thing then isn't one doing that for personal satisfaction?
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That's where the Grey/Gray morality of life comes in. To me there is no real Black or White or Good or Evil.

My mother is one of the nicest ladies you'll meet, her mother was arguably a modern day saint. Both of them truly feel interracial marriage is a sin and an abomination to god. I think that's a terrible closed minded thought in every way. They believe that way because the bible says so, and nothing else.

I use this closed minded thinking to constantly push my mother into being more tolerant and accepting of things. My favorite that she says is "All sin is the same, no matter what." My response the first time I heard that, "If you were living in Germany during World War Two and you were hiding a jewish family in your home, and the German SS came to your house and asked if you were hiding people, and you lied and said no, does God consider that a sin that you would or should be punished for?"

She didn't know how to answer, and now she refuses to discuss my belief of sins being outweighed based on what you do, because she can't answer that question.
 
#30
#30
VolsSportsFan said:
Not to derail the thread but I have to share...

As someone who has suffered sleep paralysis, yes what he described is exactly the symptoms I had. I won't lie, before I figured out what it was, it was a very scary experience and had me questioning how I felt about ghosts/spirits/hauntings. Basically I couldn't move, heard what I can only best describe as "demon voices" and felt like some kind of entities were in the room and even standing on me. After I researched it, now when I have an episode (which is rare), I merely start trying to move my feet and it "wakes" me up, and I ignore everything my senses are telling me (though the having trouble breathing part still sucks).
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I think I suffer from this too, are you aware but not fully awake? When it happens I know what's going on around me but can't speak or move. Often I feel myself fighting to move but can't. When I was younger I would scream in my head for people to help me, it freaked me out. I never saw demons but I saw shadowy figures. As I've gotten older I rarely freak over it though I still fight to move. Idk if it's common but I often have voices whisper to me as I sleep that stuff is about to happen. Like it's said answer your door and someone knocked on my door. When the earthquake happened a couple years back, a voice said "it's about to shake, don't be scared" then the earthquake hit. Is this similar to what you've experienced, or am I just crazy? Lol Sorry to derail as well, but I've always wondered wtf.
 
#31
#31
BadJerry20 said:
I think I suffer from this too, are you aware but not fully awake? When it happens I know what's going on around me but can't speak or move. Often I feel myself fighting to move but can't. When I was younger I would scream in my head for people to help me, it freaked me out. I never saw demons but I saw shadowy figures. As I've gotten older I rarely freak over it though I still fight to move. Idk if it's common but I often have voices whisper to me as I sleep that stuff is about to happen. Like it's said answer your door and someone knocked on my door. When the earthquake happened a couple years back, a voice said "it's about to shake, don't be scared" then the earthquake hit. Is this similar to what you've experienced, or am I just crazy? Lol Sorry to derail as well, but I've always wondered wtf.
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No lie, I suffered from this when I was younger also. It really does feel like "an evil" presence in a way. However, once I figured out what it was through studying it it wasn't so bad.

As far as future telling? Can I have some lottery numbers?
 
#32
#32
Daloth said:
No lie, I suffered from this when I was younger also. It really does feel like "an evil" presence in a way. However, once I figured out what it was through studying it it wasn't so bad.

As far as future telling? Can I have some lottery numbers?
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I need to research then so it's easier. It's not as bad now, cause I realize what is happening faster. It still catches me off guard some times though.

Lol my genie only warns me of earthquakes and visitors. I'll ask him next time though.
 
#33
#33
Has anyone had a bad outta body expirence? I'll tell my story if someone shares theirs.
 
#35
#35
1. Is there universal sin (across all religions/non religions)

Hard to say. Certainly there are specific morals that are a consensus among nearly the entirety of humanity, but even those things shift over time.

2. Do atheists believe in sin?

Not sin per se, but I certainly do have morals in that I believe there are things that are right and there are other things that are wrong.

3. Do you accept all that is labeled as sin in your religion as sin?

This question doesn't apply to me. As to the lack of morality that is often associated with atheism, no.

4. Is a sin in your religion still a sin if committed by someone outside your religion?

I'll answer this one from a different perspective. Depending on the situation at hand, if someone were to do something that would be against my morals, so long as no one else is harmed in the process, I would consider it to be okay for them to do what I am against.

5. Are all sins created equal?

Some things are more wrong than others.
 
#36
#36
BadJerry20 said:
Don't be shy, I just confessed to a voice warning of stuff. Lol
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It's quite embarrassing. I'm terrified of coke machines and keurigs.. I had a outta body expirence while sleeping on the couch, I watched my self sleep then walked into the kitchen my son was making coffee outta the keurig and as I walked up behind him I got sucked into the machine. I immediately woke up and went into the kitchen to see my son who was making coffee. Yeah.. That's my story.
 
#37
#37
VolsSportsFan said:
Two of my episodes stood out.

One, I did actually see the "old hag". And this was before I knew anything about the syndrome or that it was a commonly described occurrence. It was only for a few seconds, but I vividly remember seeing her at the foot of the bed.

Two, the other the best way I can describe it was "out of body" experience. For about 15 seconds or so, I "watched" myself sleep, and was able to go into the next room and "see" my wife sitting on the couch watching TV with our dog. I was able to see the TV and a clock to see the time. I woke up a few minutes later, in the same position I was in when I "saw" myself, got up and went into the next room and my wife was on couch with the dog, in the same position, watching the show I saw in my experience, and the clock about 3 minutes later.

I'll leave it at that. Whether that stuff was real, or I created a very vivid dream from my other senses, I don't know. That was the only time that has happened when I've had a sleep paralysis episode.
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This guy had a similar experience.
 
#38
#38
rocktopper16 said:
It's quite embarrassing. I'm terrified of coke machines and keurigs.. I had a outta body expirence while sleeping on the couch, I watched my self sleep then walked into the kitchen my son was making coffee outta the keurig and as I walked up behind him I got sucked into the machine. I immediately woke up and went into the kitchen to see my son who was making coffee. Yeah.. That's my story.
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Honestly I think that would be pretty cool. I wish I would have that happen.
 
#39
#39
BadJerry20 said:
Honestly I think that would be pretty cool. I wish I would have that happen.
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Eh, I dream of it happening quite often. It took a week for me to get over the fact it happened. I believe in the supernatural just try my best to avoid it. Wife believed it was demons trying to take my soul. If that would happen, What would happen to my corpse?
 
#40
#40
rocktopper16 said:
Eh, I dream of it happening quite often. It took a week for me to get over the fact it happened. I believe in the supernatural just try my best to avoid it. Wife believed it was demons trying to take my soul. If that would happen, What would happen to my corpse?
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I'd imagine it's a bit of a shock, but I like adrenaline rushes. What do you mean, "what would happen to.your corpse?" I'd imagine if your soul was stolen, it would be like you passed in your sleep.
 
#43
#43
Vol8188 said:
I think an interesting question about sin would be, "do you believe your preferred deity punishes sin, and if so do you believe it is punishes during or after life?"

One of the most interesting parts of the bible is the dramatic change in this aspect. In the Old Testament all sin was punished during life. Then in the New Testament the concept of hell and punishment during the after life emerges.
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You're an intelligent man, and my answer is this.. I told god in a prayer.. "god, let me suffer now. In this life, I want to be free of pain(not in hell) in the next life.. So far gods honored that wish..
 
#44
#44
volinbham said:
Looks like the PC thread and A&E thread are devolving into a "what is sin" debate so I figured we ought to have a separate thread.

1. Is there universal sin (across all religions/non religions)

2. Do atheists believe in sin?

3. Do you accept all that is labeled as sin in your religion as sin?

4. Is a sin in your religion still a sin if committed by someone outside your religion?

5. Are all sins created equal?

6. ?
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Depends on how you define "sin". If it is rooted in metaphysics/divinity, then those who are not of that faith would not believe in such a thing. However, it would still apply to those people (nonbelievers) since religion/divine commandments/moral code is generally brought to bear to all people of Earth (creation of the deity).

If it is merely rooted in what is morally/ethically wrong on the Earthly plane, then sin is believed in by virtually everyone but is entirely relative to the person judging; no universal sin.
 
#45
#45
Here's my 2 cents on the whole sin debate.

Are all sins equal in the eyes of humanity? No. Society doesn't dish out equal punishments for murders as they do someone that lies on their tax return (and gets caught).

Are all sins equal in the eyes of God? Yes. All sin takes us away from God and every sin is forgivable.
 
#49
#49
I have had sleep paralysis too. It is the weirdest feeling that I have ever had. I think it is more waking from Alpha (deepest sleep I think) and not coming fully awake. Generally it has been when I have been extremely tired and sleepy.
 
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