Knight Unloads On Indiana

#26
#26
I have to agree with GAVol on this one.

What Knight did was classless and uncalled for. I've got no problem with a strict disciplinarian or someone who gets in his players faces.

To me Knight has shown a history of arrogance; like he's above all.

Old Vol made the comment that he can't control himself and I tend to agree - speaking your mind is one thing but I don't respect the way he treats people.


As for coaching, no doubt he is a great one. However, before we crown him the one who can deliever NC's, let's look at the record over the last 10+ years.

Last Sweet 16 in 1993 - did not advance. In the years subsequent 94-99, out in the FIRST round 5 times and the other time OUT in the second round. In all these except one (where IU made the second round), his team was the lower (better) seed. His teams during his last 6 years averaged just at 20 wins. NO BIG TEN CHAMPIONSHIPS (NOTE - Jerry Green had a better record on average).

He has revitalized TT. When he got there, the team had been in a downward spiral. However, in 1996 TT won 30 games and was a #3 seed in the tourney. That team made the Sweet 16 (possibly Elite Eight - I don't recall). Knight's record at TT is no better (probably not as good as) Green's at UT.

So, does he still have it? Is Jerry Green level performance worth the crap that would come along with BK?
 
#27
#27
Some intresting facts. According to the article in the Tennessean in another post on here today, Bk is listed as a long shot at best. He has supposedly sent word of interest, but still being in the tournament, that's where it lays right now. They are predicting we may have the job filled by mid-week next week, so if Bobby is still in, and the way they are playing may very well have a shot at the final four, then he clearly would be the number 3 man at best right now behind Altman and Pearl. altman is already out and has had full contact about the job. Pearl is still playing, but faces a tough opponent tonight that could end thier season. He has sent word of strong interest in the job after his season is over.

I was watching Sports Century about Coach K at lunch on ESPN and BK had a lot of time in that segment, having been K's mentor and got him the Army job and the Duke job. Granted BK is arrogant as their friendship dwindled over the years because coach K apparently did not kiss the Knight ring enough, aknowledging his beginnings and success to have come from him. After Duke put indy out back in the late 80's/early 90's Bk gave him a brief and quiet handshake and moved on to one of his assistants to hand him a note to pass on to Coach K that basically questioned him of his remembering where he came from and how he got those jobs. I think that was an elevated level of arrogance as anyone who follows any game knows where the elite come from. I would consider it a given that a coach like Coach K would always remember his good fortunes starting out with the help of BK or whoever the mentor is. I don't think it is something at that level that you spend all your time showering public praise and thanks. I think the air of class and professionalism in those respects regardless of the sport is that those things are personal and understood between mentor/protege and are of a private nature. That was along time ago, but nonetheless, surprising.

Being a BK fan, and having him on my list of hopefuls, I was disappointed in that even though it has been many moons ago. Then again, if he is still a condidate, you really have to evaluate him on the last few years for any changes or improvements.
 
#28
#28
Old Vol, We can add a few more to your list of principled men who did not show restraint, David, A man after God's own heart, committed mass murder and adultery...Forgiven! Moses, an angry murderer, led God's people to the promised land..Forgiven!..Paul, a killer of Christians and one who said even after his conversion, "The evil I do not want to do, that is what I do"...Forgiven. Anyway. It's our responsibility to train up our children the way they should go and when they grow old they will not depart from it. It's not Bobby Knight's responsibility. I do understand your position however and if Bobby was being hired as a pastor or being considered for election to the deconate or board of elders to a church. you would be right to protest. But He is being hired to be a championship basket ball coach and if he comes we will have the opportunity to show him the kindness of God...and as the Word says, "It is the goodness or kindness of God that draws men to repentance." Maybe ole Bobby just needs us to love him unconditionally like God loves us...ok...ok Ill quit preaching. TBALLVOL..Forgiven!.OldVol..Forgiven!
 
#29
#29
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Mar 23, 2005 2:00 PM
Old Vol, We can add a few more to your list of principled men who did not show restraint, David, A man after God's own heart, committed mass murder and adultery...Forgiven! Moses, an angry murderer, led God's people to the promised land..Forgiven!..Paul, a killer of Christians and one who said even after his conversion, "The evil I do not want to do, that is what I do"...Forgiven. Anyway. It's our responsibility to train up our children the way they should go and when they grow old they will not depart from it. It's not Bobby Knight's responsibility. I do understand your position however and if Bobby was being hired as a pastor or being considered for election to the deconate or board of elders to a church. you would be right to protest. But He is being hired to be a championship basket ball coach and if he comes we will have the opportunity to show him the kindness of God...and as the Word says, "It is the goodness or kindness of God that draws men to repentance." Maybe ole Bobby just needs us to love him unconditionally like God loves us...ok...ok Ill quit preaching. TBALLVOL..Forgiven!.OldVol..Forgiven!
Click to expand...

I agree with what you said about those men who were forgiven. However: (You knew that was coming, didn't you) there is one exception to this analogy. All the men you mentioned repented and asked for forgiveness. To my knowledge, Coach Knight has not shown any remorse for his behavior, in fact, just recently added to the infamous resume as the article I linked pointed out. Also, in regard to your examples, Moses did not get to go into the Promised Land becaue he let his temper get the best of him in smoting the rock the second time instead of speaking to it. So; our actions, even after we're forgiven, do have consequences.

Forgiveness should always be afforded. If God has forgiven us, who are we not to forgive if someone asks it of us. Bobby Knight hasn't asked anyone to forgive him for his arrogant behavior though. I would really like to hear him admit that he's hurt a lot of people with his temper and harsh words.

I often think of the student at Indiana who was chastened by Knight for calling him by his first name. When I think about that, I think of men like Robert Neyland, John Wooden, and Vince Lombardi. For the life of me, I can't imagine a college age kid calling any of those three by their first name. Why? Because all of those men exemplified what it means to be tough, win championships, and demand respect of their peers, players, and fans.

Real respect is earned not just on the field of play, but in the arena of life.

That is what makes a great man in his field a legend.

Legends are given respect because they earn it with their actions, not a lecture on manners.

Imagine that; Bob Knight giving anyone a lecture on manners. :p
 
#30
#30
Forgive them Father for they know not what they do?....except for you Bobby! you need to repent first!
 
#31
#31
Originally posted by OldVol+Mar 23, 2005 2:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (OldVol @ Mar 23, 2005 2:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TBALLVOL@Mar 23, 2005 2:00 PM
Old Vol, We can add a few more to your list of principled men who did not show restraint, David, A man after God&#39;s own heart, committed mass murder and adultery...Forgiven&#33; Moses, an angry murderer, led God&#39;s people to the promised land..Forgiven&#33;..Paul, a killer of Christians and one who said even after his conversion, "The evil I do not want to do, that is what I do"...Forgiven. Anyway. It&#39;s our responsibility to train up our children the way they should go and when they grow old they will not depart from it. It&#39;s not Bobby Knight&#39;s responsibility. I do understand your position however and if Bobby was being hired as a pastor or being considered for election to the deconate or board of elders to a church. you would be right to protest. But He is being hired to be a championship basket ball coach and if he comes we will have the opportunity to show him the kindness of God...and as the Word says, "It is the goodness or kindness of God that draws men to repentance." Maybe ole Bobby just needs us to love him unconditionally like God loves us...ok...ok Ill quit preaching. TBALLVOL..Forgiven&#33;.OldVol..Forgiven&#33;
Click to expand...

I agree with what you said about those men who were forgiven. However: (You knew that was coming, didn&#39;t you) there is one exception to this analogy. All the men you mentioned repented and asked for forgiveness. To my knowledge, Coach Knight has not shown any remorse for his behavior, in fact, just recently added to the infamous resume as the article I linked pointed out. Also, in regard to your examples, Moses did not get to go into the Promised Land becaue he let his temper get the best of him in smoting the rock the second time instead of speaking to it. So; our actions, even after we&#39;re forgiven, do have consequences.

Forgiveness should always be afforded. If God has forgiven us, who are we not to forgive if someone asks it of us. Bobby Knight hasn&#39;t asked anyone to forgive him for his arrogant behavior though. I would really like to hear him admit that he&#39;s hurt a lot of people with his temper and harsh words.

I often think of the student at Indiana who was chastened by Knight for calling him by his first name. When I think about that, I think of men like Robert Neyland, John Wooden, and Vince Lombardi. For the life of me, I can&#39;t imagine a college age kid calling any of those three by their first name. Why? Because all of those men exemplified what it means to be tough, win championships, and demand respect of their peers, players, and fans.

Real respect is earned not just on the field of play, but in the arena of life.

That is what makes a great man in his field a legend.

Legends are given respect because they earn it with their actions, not a lecture on manners.

Imagine that; Bob Knight giving anyone a lecture on manners. :p [/quote]
Would that be the same John Wooden who had a mobster(Sam Gilbert) pay for every impact player he ever recruited? Yeah, that earns you respect.
 
#32
#32
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Mar 23, 2005 3:33 PM
Forgive them Father for they know not what they do?....except for you Bobby&#33; you need to repent first&#33;
Click to expand...

The thief on the cross repented and was saved, the other theif did not and ......................

Give one example where anyone gained forgiveness without repentance.

I think you&#39;ll find that forgiveness carries the repentance disclaimer throughout the book you just quoted. ;)

Oh, and that goes for Bobby too. :D
 
#33
#33
Good Lord, fellas. . . .think we&#39;re taking this a bit far?

Let&#39;s go back to the point of this post: A potential coaching candidate says ONE, that&#39;s right, ONE "curse" word -- albeit one of the LEAST abrasive (since it IS a "non-curse" word, as well) -- in an interview and that is supposed to be an example of why we should not hire him. Now, we&#39;ve gotten to Christian theology, repentance, Biblical history, and forgiveness. Uh. . . . .

Way to go Pat&#33; Congratulations&#33;&#33;&#33;

Sorry for that aside (and if I&#39;m failing to follow the logic of the thread). . . . Anyway, I dare say that at least half of the users of this board probably said worse throughout the course of today. Not only that, but I bet a lot of people have kind of "half-a&#036;&#036;ed" their way through a day on the job and not a one of us has ever sent back a paycheck because we didn&#39;t feel like we deserved it. If you want to argue "integrity," I&#39;m gonna go out on a limb and say that when deciding upon a head basketball coach, there are more important factors than his choice of words. AND, that no matter either of our religious preferences, talking about behavior based on Christian theology should NEVER come into the decision making process in this "freedom-of-religion" nation.

my :twocents:
 
#34
#34
Originally posted by kiddiedoc@Mar 23, 2005 7:41 PM
Good Lord, fellas. . . .think we&#39;re taking this a bit far?

Let&#39;s go back to the point of this post: A potential coaching candidate says ONE, that&#39;s right, ONE "curse" word -- albeit one of the LEAST abrasive (since it IS a "non-curse" word, as well) -- in an interview and that is supposed to be an example of why we should not hire him. Now, we&#39;ve gotten to Christian theology, repentance, Biblical history, and forgiveness. Uh. . . . .

Way to go Pat&#33; Congratulations&#33;&#33;&#33;

Sorry for that aside (and if I&#39;m failing to follow the logic of the thread). . . . Anyway, I dare say that at least half of the users of this board probably said worse throughout the course of today. Not only that, but I bet a lot of people have kind of "half-a&#036;&#036;ed" their way through a day on the job and not a one of us has ever sent back a paycheck because we didn&#39;t feel like we deserved it. If you want to argue "integrity," I&#39;m gonna go out on a limb and say that when deciding upon a head basketball coach, there are more important factors than his choice of words. AND, that no matter either of our religious preferences, talking about behavior based on Christian theology should NEVER come into the decision making process in this "freedom-of-religion" nation.

my :twocents:
Click to expand...

Some of Knight&#39;s tirades have been far more about tone and arrogance than profanity.

The same thing he did in the interview, attacking the current coach of his former university, and attacking the administration was done by Majors and I dare say 80% on this board railed harshly against him for it. Now many of the same posters are prepared to hire a coach who does the same thing. I find that very inconsistent.
 
#35
#35
Alright Oldvol, This is my last post on the subject as we have gotten way off subject. I ask you. What do you think Jesus meant when he asked the Father to forgive those who crucified him? and another thing. I too would love to have a dynamic coach of great moral character who can win 20 games a year and fill TBA. I just don&#39;t think there are any in our search parameters that really will fill the bill. There are many coaches who look all clean and shiny on the outside but on the sly they are drunks, womanizers, adulterers, gamblers, cheaters, etc. IMO Knight may curse a blue streak and have an anger problem but if you are going to put him on the scales, overall he might come out better. I&#39;m just tring to be real here. But I can&#39;t have aught against Knight because I&#39;m not perfect either. I have to walk out my own salvation and so will Bobby. I&#39;m just Glad Jesus was perfect. I wonder if he can coach basketball?..just kidding. I do believe God has a sense of humor...he does doesn&#39;t he?

PS I hear Knight is no longer being considered because he is too OLD&#33;
 
#36
#36
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Mar 24, 2005 9:18 AM
Alright Oldvol, This is my last post on the subject as we have gotten way off subject. I ask you. What do you think Jesus meant when he asked the Father to forgive those who crucified him? and another thing. I too would love to have a dynamic coach of great moral character who can win 20 games a year and fill TBA. I just don&#39;t think there are any in our search parameters that really will fill the bill. There are many coaches who look all clean and shiny on the outside but on the sly they are drunks, womanizers, adulterers, gamblers, cheaters, etc. IMO Knight may curse a blue streak and have an anger problem but if you are going to put him on the scales, overall he might come out better. I&#39;m just tring to be real here. But I can&#39;t have aught against Knight because I&#39;m not perfect either. I have to walk out my own salvation and so will Bobby. I&#39;m just Glad Jesus was perfect. I wonder if he can coach basketball?..just kidding. I do believe God has a sense of humor...he does doesn&#39;t he?

PS I hear Knight is no longer being considered because he is too OLD&#33;
Click to expand...

Oh, that&#39;s beautiful, your finger slipped onto the caps lock when you hit OLD. ;)

I&#39;ll answer the theological question in a pm.

You&#39;re right about one thing, we&#39;ve moved a bit from topic. As I said, if we hire him, he&#39;s my dog too, so we&#39;ll hunt with him.

Honestly, I&#39;ve never thought he was considering us and I&#39;ve never really thought we&#39;re considering him.

Check your messages.
 
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