Kellen Moore is in the Heisman discussion and Bray isn't is laughable

#51
#51
crusse10 said:
It's not a popularity vote. If it was a popularity vote, Tim Tebow would have won it all 4 years. In the end, it goes to the best player on a team near the top of the polls. In my opinion, that's what it should do. You don't deserve to be awarded if your play doesn't elevate your team to the top 10-15.
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I simply can't agree with this...at least not in principle. Take the best player you can think of, doesn't matter who or from what era, put him at New Mexico/Memphis/etc and those teams sill don't likely even make the top 25 and darn sure not the top 10.

Now in practice the odds of somebody that good ending up on a team that bad are very low but I'm always extremely recalcitrant to attach team success to how good a player is, especially in football. There's just too much outside of any single player's control.
 
#53
#53
crusse10 said:
It's not a popularity vote. If it was a popularity vote, Tim Tebow would have won it all 4 years. In the end, it goes to the best player on a team near the top of the polls. In my opinion, that's what it should do. You don't deserve to be awarded if your play doesn't elevate your team to the top 10-15.
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Not sure where Florida was, ranking wise, every year Tebow was there but by your own definition he probably should have won it all 4 years? That being said, the award is supposed to be for the best player in college football for the year, right? Not the best player on a ranked team for the year. Hence my comment about it being a popularity contest...
 
#55
#55
i look at it this way, the longer his name is not on that list, the longer bray stays.. i know, wishful thinking.
 
#57
#57
Hornung literally did everything. He was a quarterback, kicker, running back, and safety. He was the best all-around player in the history of football, imo.
 
#59
#59
When Notre Dame's Paul Hornung beat out Johnny Majors for the Heisman, I believe the irish were 2-9 that year. But that was during the era of heavy bias toward northern teams and northern players--the south was disrespected! Nowadays, nobody on a losing team would win the award, but I think it has happened.
 
#60
#60
crusse10 said:
It's not a popularity vote. If it was a popularity vote, Tim Tebow would have won it all 4 years. In the end, it goes to the best player on a team near the top of the polls. In my opinion, that's what it should do. You don't deserve to be awarded if your play doesn't elevate your team to the top 10-15.
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It is all popularity. McFadden should have won it that year and the next couple people started getting tired of Tebow. Also Bradford and Ingram were on winning hyped up teams the next couple of years with good numbers. Tebow won it on a team that was average.
 
#61
#61
EaglesVols91 said:
Moore has 1137 yards 14 Tds and 4 INTs while Bray has 1328 yards 14 TDs and 2 INTs. Why is this? They play a very weak schedule with their toughest game being a Georgia team that is still up in the air. We'll see how Bray does against Georgia, but if he has a good game they need to replace Moore with Bray on the Heisman watch.

The other teams Boise has played are Toledo, Tulsa and Nevada and I believe Cincinnati is better than all of them
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come on bro. moore has shown he can beat good teams over 4 yrs. bray has yet to beat a ranked opponet. eventhough i agree with you bray is the better QB and will be better in the pro's he has to win some big games first before even being mentioned as a heisman canidate. the heisman is a joke anyways.
 
#62
#62
BOBeLITE said:
The Heisman Trophy has been a joke ever since Peyton lost.. Bet they are wishing they had that one back.. It will go to the best player on the best team.. KM prob won't win it because of their schedule...They will prob finish the season in the Top 5 even though it's crap they are even up there.. They have a good team and can Prepare as well as anyone for a big game.. I seriously doubt they could win week in and week out in the SEC... I would like to see how well they do in our OCT schedule... My guess is if Bama wins out.. It will go to Trent Richardson.. JMO..
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Actually Johnny getting robbed of it is more of a travesty than Peyton getting robbed. It hurt Peyton that he had such a bad game at Florida that season.
 
#63
#63
EaglesVols91 said:
Moore has 1137 yards 14 Tds and 4 INTs while Bray has 1328 yards 14 TDs and 2 INTs. Why is this? They play a very weak schedule with their toughest game being a Georgia team that is still up in the air. We'll see how Bray does against Georgia, but if he has a good game they need to replace Moore with Bray on the Heisman watch.

The other teams Boise has played are Toledo, Tulsa and Nevada and I believe Cincinnati is better than all of them
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Cause he has done it for years, is going to finish his career with more wins than any other college QB and plays for a highly ranked team.

Whereas Bray has put up huge number against lowsy teams and had ok games against the three teams that worth anything ( all losses ). He is a Sophomore on an average at best team....should I keep going?
 
#64
#64
The Heisman is given to the player that ESPN campaigns for. ESPN picks its favorite candidate and promotes them.

For example:
Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning
Reggie Bush over Vince Young ( although he didn't pan out in the NFL he was a stud at Texas and deserved that trophy. Not to mention he ran all over USC in the National Championship. And yes, I know the award is given before the NC. But he still was the better of the two.)

Sometimes their candidate chokes it away and they quietly switch sides. This happened last year. If you remember through the first four or five games all the talk was about Terrel Prior and he was their horse. But then he showed that he couldn't win big games when he choked against Wisconsin. (this is something that Ohio State commonly does.)
 
#65
#65
crusse10 said:
It's not a popularity vote. If it was a popularity vote, Tim Tebow would have won it all 4 years. In the end, it goes to the best player on a team near the top of the polls. In my opinion, that's what it should do. You don't deserve to be awarded if your play doesn't elevate your team to the top 10-15.
Click to expand...

crusse10 said:
If you go back and look at what Paul Hornung did that year, you'll understand why he won it.
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Contradictory posts are contradictory.
 
#66
#66
utvolpj said:
so the Heisman is a career award and not just for this season?
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Of course not but everyone has known who Kellen Moore is, his body of work put him in the discussion before the season even started.

Bray on the other hand is just now starting to get naitonal recognition...all about hype.
 
#68
#68
The award has changed, just like everything. Under the standards with which they awarded it, he earned it. The reason there's a contradiction is that the award has evolved. Everything has evolved. If you can name someone who was a more complete football player in football history, I'll accept you saying that Hornung doesn't deserve that award. The man was literally always on the field.
 
#69
#69
Kellen Moore has beaten Oregon twice, VA Tech, TCU and Jawja. Regardless of whether you think Boise St plays a cupcake schedule, those are pretty good teams. So far, Bray's biggest win is Cincinnati. Yes, his stats are on par or ahead of most of the FBS QBs, but in this day and age, your team has to win games to be in the discussion for the Heisman
 
#70
#70
FootVolintheFall said:
Kellen Moore has beaten Oregon twice, VA Tech, TCU and Jawja. Regardless of whether you think Boise St plays a cupcake schedule, those are pretty good teams. So far, Bray's biggest win is Cincinnati. Yes, his stats are on par or ahead of most of the FBS QBs, but in this day and age, your team has to win games to be in the discussion for the Heisman
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This.

If/when Bray puts us on his back (more than he already does) and wills us to win against a big team (like Tyler Wilson vs A&M), he'll definitely be in the discussion. Until then, he has nice stats but that's it in the eyes of the Heisman committee.
 
#71
#71
Tyler could be a late "Heisman" runner if he puts big numbers up through the meat of the schedule, if that happens, next year he will most likely be on the watch list pre-season.
 
#72
#72
hndog609 said:
I simply can't agree with this...at least not in principle. Take the best player you can think of, doesn't matter who or from what era, put him at New Mexico/Memphis/etc and those teams sill don't likely even make the top 25 and darn sure not the top 10.

Now in practice the odds of somebody that good ending up on a team that bad are very low but I'm always extremely recalcitrant to attach team success to how good a player is, especially in football. There's just too much outside of any single player's control.
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well i mean... deangelo williams got memphis ranked...

and he wasnt THAT great. and Cam Newton turned a mediocre auburn team into national champions... if youre heisman worthy you can make a HUGE difference to how a team performs.
 
#75
#75
TB doesn't deserve to be in the heisman talk. Moore doesn't either but he plays for the media darlings. So please everyone take a deep breath and quit posting dumb threads. It's threads like this that make people laugh at UT fans.
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