Kamara and Reeves Maybin trolling Butch Jones

#51
#51
OrangeByBirth said:
Essentially it HAS been done.

Bill Snyder @ KSU

Even Spurrier took time off to go rest in DC until he was ready to go again with SoCar. Urban Meyer took time off before OSU. There are many examples.
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Snyder took more than one season when he legitimately RETIRED and I’d hardly say that he needed it...or that he IMPROVED afterwards. And Spurrier went STRAIGHT from an annual player for the national title in college...to the NFL! Guess Saban “rested” also? :huh:
 
#53
#53
livefaith said:
Deceptive article.

Yes, they joked about CoL to each other. But, AK had a + relationship w Jones. Kamara was liked as a team leader and also by Jones as shown on the recruiting day cameras. Of course, the writer is deceiving readers by making it appear as if AK, JRM, and Smith were all attacking Jones. Not one of them were. Certainly all of them probably have some issue here or there. Buy, Josh was answering a Q the other day and did nothing to throw Jones under the bus. The two joked @ the phrase, but the writer rolled it all into a players attacking their ex coach story ... for more clicks.

I hate lying journalists.
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And it’s so common place these days that the casual observer and headline reader develops a false narrative that becomes “viral” . I have so little respect for the media including sports media these days that even when they’re telling me what I KNOW to be the truth I still have doubts....AN IVE BEEN MARRIED TO ONE FOR 42 years...she’s lost most respect for them too!
 
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#54
#54
VFL-82-JP said:
Hoptown and folks like him are a big part of the reason we've lived through the Dark Ages of the past ten years.

If we'd put Fulmer on a one-year "sabbatical" to rediscover his fire and drive, rather than kick him to the curb as we did, there would've been a heck of a lot more winning on Rocky Top this past decade.

I suspect there's some level of regret and/or guilt--admitted or not--among those who treated Fulmer so poorly after what he did for the university and Volunteer nation. Some acknowledge that, and get on with their lives. Others double down on the hate. Hoptown is one of the latter.
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It is funny how all of you Fulmer robots come out all the time. Not everyone that was tired of losing and being non competitive for a few years had any toward of hate or dislike for Fulmer, it was about wins and losses, nothing else. Myself and several wanting a coach that could continue to give us 9 plus winning seasons and a SEC East Title every 3 years does regret Fulmer being fired AFTER WHAT HAPPENED! But, If the UT administration would have put up the money to hire an ELITE AND PROVEN coach, we wouldn't have had all the dark years with Fooley and Phony!!!

Regardless, Fulmer has won back the hearts of the Big Orange Nation as of now. Hopefully, it will remain that way. That means he made the right hire and righted the ship that he let get off course in the first place! Right now, everyone is loving the Big Orange Pumpkin. Let's all come together and hope that Fulmer adds a NIAAA Hall of Fame to his resume!!!
 
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#55
#55
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't think that's true.

I think people are people.

The sports world is unique, sure. So is a combat zone. So is academia. So is big business. And Hollywood. Deep sea fishing in arctic waters. Stunt work.

Every profession, every field, is different and unique. And yet, people are the common denominator they all share.

And where you have people. you have leaders who might benefit greatly from "a year away," to get their head straight or re-energize or gain a new perspective.

I think it is entirely possible that a sabbatical, in a case like Fulmer's, might have worked great.

But of course, we will never know now.
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I don’t give Hamilton a pass for his vast collection of malfeasance and bad decisions. I don’t even consider blaming him for not taking this path that no one considered or has since enacted in the ten years before a message board poster presented it.
 
#59
#59
VolsGrad1989 said:
It is funny how all of you Fulmer robots come out all the time. Not everyone that was tired of losing and being non competitive for a few years had any toward of hate or dislike for Fulmer, it was about wins and losses, nothing else. Myself and several wanting a coach that could continue to give us 9 plus winning seasons and a SEC East Title every 3 years does regret Fulmer being fired AFTER WHAT HAPPENED! But, If the UT administration would have put up the money to hire an ELITE AND PROVEN coach, we wouldn't have had all the dark years with Fooley and Phony!!!

Regardless, Fulmer has won back the hearts of the Big Orange Nation as of now. Hopefully, it will remain that way. That means he made the right hire and righted the ship that he let get off course in the first place! Right now, everyone is loving the Big Orange Pumpkin. Let's all come together and hope that Fulmer adds a NIAAA Hall of Fame to his resume!!!
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Great, another one of you guys.
 
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#61
#61
BeecherVol said:
Phil was right when Cut and Chavis coached and he recruited and was the manager.
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I really don't think there would have ever been a problem if Cut had stayed as OC. What was our worst record with Cut as OC? 8-4 in '94? Also, with Cut as OC we never lost to anyone in the SEC East but Florida. From '93-'98 and '06-'07 we were 1-7 vs Florida, but 32-0 vs everyone else.
 
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#62
#62
VFL-82-JP said:
We gotta get past this idea, "you make more money than me, a TON more, therefore I am entitled to treat you with disdain."

Whether you make $10,000 a year, or $10,000,000 a year, I should treat you with the same respect. That level of respect should be based on how good a person you are, how you are valued by society. Not your pay scale.

Fulmer's last years should have been purely a question of how well he was doing his job, how much potential he had to do it well in the future, and how the university could interact with him to maximize our chances of success in the football program.

Fulmer was complacent toward the end. But he was still a hugely talented head coach. We should've treated him better. And by that, I mean we should've kept the man as our coach, with a year off to reset his motivation, clear his head, and reenergize.
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Come on, man. You really think Fulmer would have taken that year off?
 
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#63
#63
TNnative said:
Come on, man. You really think Fulmer would have taken that year off?
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I don't know. He might not have. But then again, if the options are, (a) you're no longer our coach, or (b) you're still our coach, but go spend a year away, get your head right. Yeah, he might have.

We'll never know. But I'd have loved if we'd tried.
 
#64
#64
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't know. He might not have. But then again, if the options are, (a) you're no longer our coach, or (b) you're still our coach, but go spend a year away, get your head right. Yeah, he might have.

We'll never know. But I'd have loved if we'd tried.
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You are not accounting for ego and pride which Fulmer has in spades. And you are also operating under the assumption that his record was the only issue.

You gotta realize how many embarrassing arrests Fulmer's players had at the time and how his comments left the impression there was little he did about it. If losing was the fire, that was the gasoline.

He could have survived the high arrests situation if the team hadn't fallen apart with the Clawfense. And he could have survived and replaced his OC if a lack of team discipline hadn't been such fodder for the press. He would not survive both.

At the point he was let go, nobody wanted to give him a year off and he wouldn't have accepted it. Had an assistant pulled a one year wonder turnaround, he would have been pushed out the same way Johnny was. Or rather, that would have been his greatest fear. That is why it would have never worked.

So wave bye bye to the midget in the white suit and come off Fantasy Island. You usually contribute well here, but I think you are way off the reservation on this.
 
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#65
#65
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#66
#66
TNnative said:
You are not accounting for ego and pride which Fulmer has in spades. And you are also operating under the assumption that his record was the only issue.

You gotta realize how many embarrassing arrests Fulmer's players had at the time and how his comments left the impression there was little he did about it. If losing was the fire, that was the gasoline.

He could have survived the high arrests situation if the team hadn't fallen apart with the Clawfense. And he could have survived and replaced his OC if a lack of team discipline hadn't been such fodder for the press. He would not survive both.

At the point he was let go, nobody wanted to give him a year off and he wouldn't have accepted it. Had an assistant pulled a one year wonder turnaround, he would have been pushed out the same way Johnny was. Or rather, that would have been his greatest fear. That is why it would have never worked.

So wave bye bye to the midget in the white suit and come off Fantasy Island. You usually contribute well here, but I think you are way off the reservation on this.
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See, I don't think I am.

Most of what you just added wasn't about whether Phillip would accept that deal if it was the only one offered. You got off on a tangent about why the University wouldn't make the offer, which is a whole 'nother animal.

So. To stick with what were were discussing, here's your post again, JUST looking at whether Fulmer would agree to those terms:

TNnative said:
You are not accounting for ego and pride which Fulmer has in spades.

...

Had an assistant pulled a one year wonder turnaround, he would have been pushed out the same way Johnny was. Or rather, that would have been his greatest fear. That is why it would have never worked.
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Sure, Phillip has a lot of ego and pride. Most hyper-successful people do. And that might have stopped him from taking a sabbatical. And sure, he had to know that a year away was an opportunity for the stand-in head coach.

Then again, he also very famously bleeds orange, lives and breathes for Tennessee. There are some coaches who only ever want to be identified with their alma mater. They may have taken jobs at other places to get there, but once there, it becomes a part of who they are. Phillip was (and is) that way.

So those two motivations would pull in opposite directions. Pride versus loyalty. Ego versus alma mater.

So what would he decide? I think it could go either way. Sadly, we'll never know.


[if you want to switch gears and discuss whether UT would ever make that offer--which is what over half your last post covered--feel free. But I can't be your counter. UT clearly didn't even come up with the idea, which means there's no way they could've offered it. You can't pursue an option you don't even realize exists. Doesn't stop me from wishing they had.]
 
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#67
#67
VFL-82-JP said:
See, I don't think I am.

Most of what you just added wasn't about whether Phillip would accept that deal if it was the only one offered. You got off on a tangent about why the University wouldn't make the offer, which is a whole 'nother animal.

So. To stick with what were were discussing, here's your post again, JUST looking at whether Fulmer would agree to those terms:



Sure, Phillip has a lot of ego and pride. Most hyper-successful people do. And that might have stopped him from taking a sabbatical. And sure, he had to know that a year away was an opportunity for the stand-in head coach.

Then again, he also very famously bleeds orange, lives and breathes for Tennessee. There are some coaches who only ever want to be identified with their alma mater. They may have taken jobs at other places to get there, but once there, it becomes a part of who they are. Phillip was (and is) that way.

So those two motivations would pull in opposite directions. Pride versus loyalty. Ego versus alma mater.

So what would he decide? I think it could go either way. Sadly, we'll never know.


[if you want to switch gears and discuss whether UT would ever make that offer--which is what over half your last post covered--feel free. But I can't be your counter. UT clearly didn't even come up with the idea, which means there's no way they could've offered it. You can't pursue an option you don't even realize exists. Doesn't stop me from wishing they had.]
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Since NOBODY even considered it, how could it be characterized as a mistake?
 
#68
#68
Fulmer did nothing to be hated for. He was a players coach. Yes there may be a few players that have an issue with him, but you can not manage that many young people and not have a bit of friction here and there. Fulmer is a great guy and had a great run at TN.
 
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#69
#69
TNnative said:
Come on, man. You really think Fulmer would have taken that year off?
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A year off? I'm sure there are precedents for that, but at the same school? Maybe Snyder at K State? Fulmer would never have forgone the income either. If the situation is rare or unprecedented, no way did Fulmer's record indicate he was deserving of such favors.
 
#70
#70
OnlyGodForgives said:
A year off? I'm sure there are precedents for that, but at the same school? Maybe Snyder at K State? Fulmer would never have forgone the income either. If the situation is rare or unprecedented, no way did Fulmer's record indicate he was deserving of such favors.
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Snyder retired legitimately...at age 66! Was highly successful when he retired and came back after 3 years because Kansas State couldn’t replace him. Can’t see the “time off to collect himself” narrative in that scenario.
 
#71
#71
butchna said:
Since NOBODY even considered it, how could it be characterized as a mistake?
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Who said it was a mistake?

That's the wrong word for what I'm saying. More like an opportunity missed.
 
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#72
#72
VFL-82-JP said:
Who said it was a mistake?
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YOU did? By inference? :dunno:
VFL-82-JP said:
Fulmer's last years should have been purely a question of how well he was doing his job, how much potential he had to do it well in the future, and how the university could interact with him to maximize our chances of success in the football program.

Fulmer was complacent toward the end. But he was still a hugely talented head coach. We should've treated him better. And by that, I mean we should've kept the man as our coach, with a year off to reset his motivation, clear his head, and reenergize.
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#73
#73
VFL-82-JP said:
Who said it was a mistake?

That's the wrong word for what I'm saying. More like an opportunity missed.
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Opportunity missed...by whom? That would be the decision makers...right? And if they “missed”...it would be considered a MISTAKE. :hi:
 
#74
#74
Butchna, you seem to be getting pretty angry about this. I'm not sure why.

Look, the university could have tried something different with Phillip, in an effort to get him back to his winning ways. And it might have worked. And we would all be far better off if it had.

But I have not accused the AD of malfeasance, not in this thread or elsewhere. I've merely said I wish this was something we had tried. I think it would have benefited the program, the players, and us, the fans. I think it would have been a better path than the one we've taken.

That's all I'm saying here.

butchna said:
YOU did? By inference? :dunno:
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If I had meant to say it was a mistake, I would've said, "It was a mistake." I'm pretty good using exactly the words I mean. I use so many of them, after all :)
 
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#75
#75
99gator said:
I think everything Tennessee did regarding Phil Fulmer was fine. They just screwed up replacing him.

The "disrespect" is mostly from a portion of the fan base who chooses to not accept reality.

That reality is that the Phil Fulmer era is the best Tennessee football you all have been alive to see. Period. Point blank. Next case. The likelihood is you won't live to see anything that consistently good again.

It was his time to go. He needed to go. Sending him packing was not wrong in any way. All good things must come to an end.

And the Phil Fulmer era was a "good thing" that should be celebrated instead of mocked.

When another dude comes along and comes close to achieving the same level of success....maybe then you can choose to mock away.

Until then, IMO, one looks like a fool tearing down the most successful head football coach you all have been alive to see. I don't understand how some of you could be subjected to what you have been for the last decade and still make fun of him.....you know.....the guy who actually won games.

JMO. TIFWIW. blah, blah, blah.
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I agree completely. I thought the decision to fire Fulmer was justified but it just happen to look questionable the following three hires.

Breaking down the hires post Fulmer.
1. Kiffin was a good choice just at the wrong time. Up and coming coach that was is an offensive mastermind, something Fulmer struggled with in his later years. He also brought Monte which was great. The only issue was No one knew he was going to jump ship like he did as quick as he did.

2. Dooley was the worst hire. He didn't even have a good record at LA Tech. I imagine his pedigree helped him. This was a reach of a hire and disastrous administratively from the top brass down. He left us with a poorly managed program.

3. Butch wasn't a bad hire at the time because he showed he could multiply his wins over time. That was true until you start to see the huge holes by the end of season 4. We all know what happened at season 5.

4. Pruitt was the best that we could get. Unproven but his pedigree and winning at every level of an assistant can't go unnoticed. He was bound to be a HC but will tennessee be the Jumpstart to his promising career? I think so. He has the resources and knowledge of how to run championship teams while learning from other failed coaches mistakes.
 
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