Josh Pate Says It (The College Sports Crisis)

[S.C. OrangeMan]

You just equated college athletes with a free education to poor coal miners, farmers, and Asian railroad workers.

No, I didn't. I equated it to below market value exploitation. All are examples of that.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Disgusting

Equally disgusting that you can make money based on your abilities, right?

 

[volfan102455]

How many times does it have to be said that is fair market value? It's not a drop in the bucket.


"Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate
Under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different."

"The NCAA is not above the law."to

SCOTUS Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Concurring opinion
NCAA vs Alston

The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the athletes 9-0 in that case, in a court that is bitterly divided ideologically. Do you know how bad the NCAA model has to be to not get a single vote from the Supreme Court?

Their fair market rate should not be millions. One player should NOT make anywhere close to what the Head Coach (CEO of the team) makes - they are not the one that takes the hit. They are not the one whose decisions drives success.

I'm assuming you are perfectly fine paying an average QB more than a baseball coach that won a NCAA championship and has regenerated interest in the university's baseball team? That is what Nico was asking for!!

 

[volfan102455]

This has to be a Spyre mole or an Instagram fan boy that loves the post with Mercenary CFB players showing off their "ice" and new whips.
The transition from Pre-NIL to Post-NIL isn't as favorable as the Cassette Tape to CD/MP3...
NIL has ruined the sport, it's ruined fan interest, and costs the fan more money to watch the team play.
Yeah, maybe some McDonalds bags were tossed out to highly rated recruits... but the transfer issue and selfishness was nowhere near to the level it is today.
The best thing to happen, will be players getting sued for NIL breach and having to pay back what was given. Lets finally see some consequences for actions here...

Completely agree with that last line - the collectives are businesses who expect to generate money from the NIL for those they represent. There are expectations of the players. If the players don't participate like they need to - the dollars will not be generated, and the player should NOT get paid.

Will the Tennessee and Arkansas collectives carry through with this is yet to be seen - but someone needs to go there to reinforce that the dollars is not a handout without expectations.

 

[volfan102455]

All this mess is one reason why I have never given to any collective.

I did not mind giving money to support education to someone who may not be able to afford it. But that is not what it is anymore.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Completely agree with that last line - the collectives are businesses who expect to generate money from the NIL for those they represent. There are expectations of the players. If the players don't participate like they need to - the dollars will not be generated, and the player should NOT get paid.

Will the Tennessee and Arkansas collectives carry through with this is yet to be seen - but someone needs to go there to reinforce that the dollars is not a handout without expectations.

The juice is not worth the squeeze with Nico.

VERY few players have acted like d*cks. Nico and Matthews come to mind. That means most athletes either negotiated privately or took what was offered.

Others may know of basketball or baseball players who pulled d*ck moves but I only know of 2.

I get it. You're pissed but we let Nico walk. Our point is made: negotiate, yes. holdout, no.

I think the players probably have a good idea where the line is but some kids will always push it. Negotiate, fine. Holdout, no.

 

[EastTNVol6240]

Sound great when you put it that way! But have listened to players talk of not having the suit needed as an expectation for greeting the public and pocket money to eat out....you know like our son or daughter would want to with friends....Oh then there's that unlucky poor kid who gets crippled and can't ever work a regular job or maybe walk. Are those top of the line resources gonna make up for the health risk he took while the school,conference,sports media and sponsors get rich? There needs to be reward equal to the Risk taken at least.

I take a “risk” everyday when I hop on the interstate to go to the job that provides for my family. That job also makes money off of me. Funny how work works. Shoukd they start paying me fir that dangerous ride in?

 

[EastTNVol6240]

How many times does it have to be said that is fair market value? It's not a drop in the bucket.


"Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate
Under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different."

"The NCAA is not above the law."to

SCOTUS Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Concurring opinion
NCAA vs Alston

The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the athletes 9-0 in that case, in a court that is bitterly divided ideologically. Do you know how bad the NCAA model has to be to not get a single vote from the Supreme Court?

That’s BS and you know it. EVERY business in America gets away with it. Show me one business where the CEO isn’t making millions or billions on the backs of the grunts making $18 an hour.

 

[Volwonder1]

Here's a partial list.

For money, especially football.
For brand recognition.
For pride and prestige.
For student and faculty recruiting.

For millions in coaches salaries and AD staff salaries.

The bottom line is that zero of the athletes got anything close to fair market value prior to NIL and penalty-free transfers.

Women's sports??? Nowhere did I say they are equivalent, but women certainly deserve fair market value

What is the fair market value? Caitlin Clark will make 78k this year from the Fever. Obviously she makes more in endorsements like Nike….but just to playing in the WNBA pays her 78k this year. So what is the fair market value college women basketball players?

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

What is the fair market value? Caitlin Clark will make 78k this year from the Fever. Obviously she makes more in endorsements like Nike….but just to playing in the WNBA pays her 78k this year. So what is the fair market value college women basketball players?

Whatever the market will bear, obviously. ECON 101 stuff. Do you really not understand how free markets work?

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

That’s BS and you know it. EVERY business in America gets away with it. Show me one business where the CEO isn’t making millions or billions on the backs of the grunts making $18 an hour.

That's absolute bunk and you know it.
Your claim is a B.S. false generalization frosted with a strawman.

Now you're changing your story from fair market value to ",on the backs of".

The topic is fair market value, Skippy.

As for CEOs that makes millions of more while paying their employees fair market value for their work, that's easy.

Ford. GM..Stellantis. Boeing. Intel. Tesla. Space Link. Motorola. Tesla. BMW
Mercedes Benz. Volkswagen. Delta. United. American. Many major league sports team owners. Nike. Apple. The list is doggone near endless.

The flaring exception? College sports programs. Duh

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

What is the fair market value? Caitlin Clark will make 78k this year from the Fever. Obviously she makes more in endorsements like Nike….but just to playing in the WNBA pays her 78k this year. So what is the fair market value college women basketball players?

She's on a rookie contract and the wnba has a collective bargaining agreement, salary caps, etc.

If the schools would drop the "student athlete" BS and turn pro, they could set rookie contracts, salary caps, free agency rules, etc, etc.

The wnba gets away with capping salaries because they're affiliated with the NBA which has a partial Antitrust Exemption.

If you WANT college sports to be able to control the pay (market value) of athletes, it needs to either become pro, not college AND/OR get Congress to carve out a college sports Antitrust Exemption.

 

[Volwonder1]

Whatever the market will bear, obviously. ECON 101 stuff. Do you really not understand how free markets work?

I get Econ 101. It was a general question. How much are women collegiate basketball players making if Caitlin Clark is making under 80k. Legit curiosity

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I get Econ 101. It was a general question. How much are women collegiate basketball players making if Caitlin Clark is making under 80k. Legit curiosity

I question whether anything you've said here is in the same planet with legit.

 

[The Original Fade]

That's absolute bunk and you know it.
Your claim is a B.S. false generalization frosted with a strawman.

Now you're changing your story from fair market value to ",on the backs of".

The topic is fair market value, Skippy.

As for CEOs that makes millions of more while paying their employees fair market value for their work, that's easy.

Ford. GM..Stellantis. Boeing. Intel. Tesla. Space Link. Motorola. Tesla. BMW
Mercedes Benz. Volkswagen. Delta. United. American. Many major league sports team owners. Nike. Apple. The list is doggone near endless.

The flaring exception? College sports programs. Duh

How do you pay someone a fair market value who is not your employee?

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

How do you pay someone a fair market value who is not your employee?

S.C. Orange Man is like a janitor pretending to be a heart surgeon on this topic. He literally doesn't know anything about it other than how to talk in circles. He's not arguing in good faith, he has some sort of agenda or stake in this or he was kidnapped by some sports agent/former CIA guy who did all sorts of heinous mind control experiments on him.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

S.C. Orange Man is like a janitor pretending to be a heart surgeon on this topic. He literally doesn't know anything about it other than how to talk in circles. He's not arguing in good faith, he has some sort of agenda or stake in this or he was kidnapped by some sports agent/former CIA guy who did all sorts of heinous mind control experiments on him.

Nope, you're just FOS.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

How do you pay someone a fair market value who is not your employee?

How did you get so utterly confused?

Do you not understand the existence of contractors? Are you really as dense as you sound?

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Nope, you're just FOS.

You speak of yourself.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

You speak of yourself.

YOur fantasies are lying to you, Skippy.

 

[Voltopia]

If you WANT college sports to be able to control the pay (market value) of athletes, it needs to either become pro, not college AND/OR get Congress to carve out a college sports Antitrust Exemption.

And the former is more likely than the latter, for the foreseeable future at least.

Though once they're made employees, there'll be a lawsuit over arbitrary "eligibility" limits, and then the fun will _really_ begin.

To say nothing of the schools deciding to seek further investment and capital to maintain the swiftly growing payrolls of their new pro sports league. Every pretense stripped away and sold for cash. Every piece will be easier to part with. The next time will always be easier than the last.

Somewhere in there should be a hefty dose of shame, but I doubt anyone will stop to feel much of it.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

YOur fantasies are lying to you, Skippy.

 

[The Original Fade]

S.C. Orange Man is like a janitor pretending to be a heart surgeon on this topic. He literally doesn't know anything about it other than how to talk in circles. He's not arguing in good faith, he has some sort of agenda or stake in this or he was kidnapped by some sports agent/former CIA guy who did all sorts of heinous mind control experiments on him.

No, he’s just a condescending a hole. Simple as that.

 

[The Original Fade]

How did you get so utterly confused?

Do you not understand the existence of contractors? Are you really as dense as you sound?

College athletes aren’t contractors either.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

No, he’s just a condescending a hole. Simple as that.

He also literally knows nothing about what he is talking about in reference to this topic. I'm an attorney and am mostly involved in the healthcare provider/civil defense area, and while I am not an anti-trust specialist I have some knowledge of it from representing hospital and nursing home systems, etc., and he is in these threads telling people stuff that is flat wrong most of the time.