Josh Pate Says It (The College Sports Crisis)

[unfrozencvmanvol]

How many times does it have to be said that NIL can't be regulated by the NCAA? Antitrust legislation won't affect that a whit due to Constitutional issues.

That is complete nonsense and you know it. There are no constitutional issues involved. If an exemption to the anti-trust laws is passed regulation of NIL will be legal based on voluntary participation, just like it was before. We all subject ourselves to rules of organizations of various types all the time in every day life by our voluntary participation. The only reason it isn't working now is because the courts have ruled the NCAA is basically a monopoly, an anti-trust exemption would clear that problem, NIL, transfers all that could be regulated under a safe harbor exemption to the Antitrust laws.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

So stopping athlete exploitation was somehow bad? That's an appalling position.

Not what he is saying. There is no bill that will pass in Congress that won't include revenue sharing with athletes, so those days (the days of no revenue sharing) are over. That doesn't mean that Congress can't make rules, or designate a governing body to make rules. Rules that are enforceable nationally are what is needed.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Not what he is saying. There is no bill that will pass in Congress that won't include revenue sharing with athletes, so those days (the days of no revenue sharing) are over. That doesn't mean that Congress can't make rules, or designate a governing body to make rules. Rules that are enforceable nationally are what is needed.

There already ARE rules that are enforced nationally. Market forces. Innovation.

The problem is the dinosaurs whose comfort zone depended on the old exploitation system. As others have said here, having government get involved is a terrible idea.

That's how you get "Cure worse than the disease" syndrome and are stuck with whatever abortion happens forever.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

That is complete nonsense and you know it. There are no constitutional issues involved. If an exemption to the anti-trust laws is passed regulation of NIL will be legal based on voluntary participation, just like it was before. We all subject ourselves to rules of organizations of various types all the time in every day life by our voluntary participation. The only reason it isn't working now is because the courts have ruled the NCAA is basically a monopoly, an anti-trust exemption would clear that problem, NIL, transfers all that could be regulated under a safe harbor exemption to the Antitrust laws.

Wrong. There are absolutely Constitutional issues involved and you're trying to hide from them.

The 14th Amendment, for one thing.
States rights, for another.

It is working right now, and claiming otherwise is bogus. You just don't like how it's working. If you can't keep up, just say so.

And again, NIL can't legally be regulated.
The pro sports with antitrust exe options can't regulate it. Ant antitrust exe Orion that permits it is going to get tossed by the courts.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

The pendulum is not going to swing back unless something swings it back, like the political will to carve out an antitrust exemption in Congress, that will be the pendulum swinging back to the middle. The status quo isn't sustainable.

The status quo absolutely is sustainable.
The market is self regulating in that aspect.
Ask Nico.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

There already ARE rules that are enforced nationally. Market forces. Innovation.

The problem is the dinosaurs whose comfort zone depended on the old exploitation system. As others have said here, having government get involved is a terrible idea.

That's how you get "Cure worse than the disease" syndrome and are stuck with whatever abortion happens forever.

Again, I am sorry this will hurt your agency/handler business, but sacrifices have to be made, lol.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

The status quo absolutely is sustainable.
The market is self regulating in that aspect.
Ask Nico.

Market forces will regulate it right into non-existence. If you have players holding out routinely, changing teams from week to week, you are gonna kill the goose that laid the golden egg, and that is, fan interest. There have to be rules, all of the pro sports have them, right now there are no enforceable rules and it's not sustainable. It's a joke. If you are making money off of it, I get that you want to hang onto the status quo, but it's shortsighted.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Again, I am sorry this will hurt your agency/handler business, but sacrifices have to be made, lol.

I have no agency/handler business.
You are FOS. You have zero credibility.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Wrong. There are absokuteky Constitutional issues involved and you're trying to hide from them.

The 14th Amendment, for one thing.
States rights, for another.

It is working right now, and claiming otherwise is bogus. You just don't like how it's working. If you can't keep up, just say so.

And again, NIL can't legally be regulated.
The pro sports with antitrust exe options can't regulate it. Ant antitrust exe Orion that permits it is going to get tossed by the courts.

Your first 3 lines are just baloney. Complete garbage from a legal perspective. SCOTUS said the NCAA needed to talk to Congress.

As for lines 4-5, I disagree that it is working, as previously stated.

The last 3 sentences, again not true, Congress could absolutely require that all NIL deals be fair market value, arms length transactions, not pay for play shams. Congress does this all the time. Check out the Stark law or the Anti-Kickback laws in the healthcare field for example.

 

[LAVol1]

The pendulum is not going to swing back unless something swings it back, like the political will to carve out an antitrust exemption in Congress, that will be the pendulum swinging back to the middle. The status quo isn't sustainable.

Economics will swing it back. Economics is an irresistible force. It can be delayed but it cannot be stopped. When it does swing back, it will go past the middle, back and forth with less movement each time until it comes to rest in the middle.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

You are FOS. You have zero credibility.

You speak of yourself.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Market forces will regulate it right into non-existence. If you have players holding out routinely, changing teams from week to week, you are gonna kill the goose that laid the golden egg, and that is, fan interest. There have to be rules, all of the pro sports have them, right now there are no enforceable rules and it's not sustainable. It's a joke. If you are making money off of it, I get what you want to hang onto the status quo, but it's shortsighted.

That's bogus. Holdouts can only happen during the portal so does if the guys that don't want to get picked up by a other team.

It absolutely is sustainable, and the joke is on the people that deny that reality.

"There have to be rules'??? There are. On field competition rules. As it should be.
Otherwise, what you want is unnecessary, exploitative, and anachronistic.

I've been hearing that crying about "unsustainable" and "there have to have rules" crap from the dinosaurs since 2019.

Yet, college sports are better, more interesting, and more profitable than ever before. By every objective measure. Your contention is a canard.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

That's bogus. Holdouts can only happen during the portal so does if the guys that don't want to get picked up by a other team.

It absolutely is sustainable, and the joke is on the people that deny that reality.

"There have to be rules'??? There are. On field competition rules. As it should be.
Otherwise, what you want is unnecessary, exploitative, and anachronistic.

I've been hearing that crying about "unsustainable" and "there have to have rules" crap from the dinosaurs since 2019.

Yet, college sports are better, more interesting, and more profitable than ever before. By every objective measure. Your contention is a canard.

 

[landscapingvol]

Starting about 15:15 of this video, they get into what can actually be done (17:23 if you really want to cut to the chase).



I've been on this soapbox for awhile. While I hate it, and am generally not a fan of federal intervention, Congress is the only entity with the power to address the various legal problems which has made college sports ungovernable. If they don't, college sports as a whole are doomed. The current wild west is unsustainable and with the employment model you can kiss the non-revenue sports including all women sports goodbye (and this will not be compliant with Title IX which will further result in the revenue sports breaking away from the universities entirely and just become minor league sports teams). A conditional antitrust exemption providing for equitable revenue sharing with athletes in exchange for allowing the NCAA (or some similar replacement governing body) the ability to enforce rules concerning NIL, transfers, etc., will restore order and save the institution of college sports. And it will be legal if Congress does it, SCOTUS itself said so in the Alston case (they said "hey NCAA you are talking to the wrong people, go talk to Congress").

Congress hasn't passed a budget in nearly a decade but you believe they are capable of creating a complex law to fix the ills plaguing college football? That's cute! IF Congress were to get involved the only thing they would do is create some goofy government oversight that would likely syphon away millions of dollars and probably make it worse

 

[GAVol]

The pendulum is not going to swing back unless something swings it back, like the political will to carve out an antitrust exemption in Congress, that will be the pendulum swinging back to the middle. The status quo isn't sustainable.

At some point people will lose the desire to throw around bad money once they see what the rate of return is. What will keep things sustainable is supply and demand.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

At some point people will lose the desire to throw around bad money once they see what the rate of return is. What will keep things sustainable is supply and demand.

I doubt it because you will always have some billionaire who may take an interest in a random team and spend irrationally as a vanity project so he can make his school a champion. That will be the real recruitment, who can recruit an Elon Musk type to back Memphis football or something. It's coming.

 

[CAVPUT]

So stopping athlete exploitation was somehow bad? That's an appalling position.

How were they exploited? Women's sports aren't money makers. They're a niche item. They're in no way as popular or as profitable and mens sports. So again, how are they being taken advantage of? It's fine to have them, but to eliminate men's sports so it's a one for one proposition is stupid and wrong.

There's equal opportunity and I support that. But when you mandate equal outcomes, that's where you lose me. It's like saying a Corolla's price should be the same as a Porsche. They aren't comparable...not apples to apples.

 

[VolinMichigan]

Things just need to go back to how it was 5 years ago.
Who did this to college sports?

The NCAA and its member institutions did this. They were happy making billions and hiding behind the “amateur student athlete” moniker that, in fairness, applies to 85-90% of all college athletes.

Football and basketball became cash cows the schools. The broadcast rights became cash cows for networks and conferences. As soon as conference alignment became about shared revenue due to broadcasting rights, it was over. Schools sought to maximize the amount of money they make, tradition, history and geography be damned.

 

[landscapingvol]

I doubt it because you will always have some billionaire who may take an interest in a random team and spend irrationally as a vanity project so he can make his school a champion. That will be the real recruitment, who can recruit an Elon Musk type to back Memphis football or something. It's coming.

Even billionaires don't have millions of dollars lying around just to throw at an athlete that brings no added value to their "investment". Elon Musk is worth about 100 Billion most of that wealth is tied up in stocks and investments not earning 3% interest in a savings account spread over 500 banks.

 

[VolinMichigan]

I doubt it because you will always have some billionaire who may take an interest in a random team and spend irrationally as a vanity project so he can make his school a champion. That will be the real recruitment, who can recruit an Elon Musk type to back Memphis football or something. It's coming.

Wealthy alumni donating to athletic departments has been around for forever. It’s a bad way to spend money because the return on investment is low. But there will always be wealthy people willing to donate money to help their schools compete in whatever sport they’re interested in. Always.

 

[claimjumper steve]

Things just need to go back to how it was 5 years ago.
Who did this to college sports?

NIL money should be put in a trust. Athletes can't access it until 3 years in a program. Every university should have their money capped at 1o million. Individual payments capped at 1 million. Lose it all if you flunk out. Do away with spring portals. NIL recipients should have to pay their own room and board and tuition.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Congress hasn't passed a budget in nearly a decade but you believe they are capable of creating a complex law to fix the ills plaguing college football? That's cute! IF Congress were to get involved the only thing they would do is create some goofy government oversight that would likely syphon away millions of dollars and probably make it worse

Congress's 17% approval rating is well deserved. If you could see my life time voting record, you could quickly deduce that I am about as anti-federal government as any person alive, but what folks are not grasping is that Congress is ALREADY involved. It is their laws (as now interpreted by SCOTUS) which are making college sports ungovernable. Only Congress can change those laws. I realize people don't like that. I don't like that either, but it's the lay of the land whether we like it or not.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Even billionaires don't have millions of dollars lying around just to throw at an athlete that brings no added value to their "investment". Elon Musk is worth about 100 Billion most of that wealth is tied up in stocks and investments not earning 3% interest in a savings account spread over 500 banks.

Somebody could take 100 million dollars right now and outbid everyone in the current market by 2.5 times. That is 1/1000th of 100 billion dollars. Extravagantly wealthy people spend all sorts of money on vanity projects. Somebody like Musk could step in and dominate the sport currently. It's just a matter of time really.

 

[GAVol]

Somebody could take 100 million dollars right now and outbid everyone in the current market by 2.5 times. That is 1/1000th of 100 billion dollars. Extravagantly wealthy people spend all sorts of money on vanity projects. Somebody like Musk could step in and dominate the sport currently. It's just a matter of time really.

Boone Pickens, Phil Knight, Jerry Jones, the Haslam family and several Texas oilmen have been trying that for years though. You're not wrong, but big donors only get you so far. Every big school has them.

 

[volfan102455]

Some days I am just like - let all this take its toll on college athletics. It is all greed based, not just the players but the agents (and parents) who are looking to exploit the fans of the teams.

In the end only two sports will remain ... college football and men's basketball. And some schools will not even be able to afford those.