Josh Heupel Has Elevated Tennessee — But Can He Evolve?

#52
#52
Heupel will evolve when he gets over the mental trauma and PTSD from getting fired by Stoops all those years ago and starts making staff changes.

Heupel has a $37m buyout.

It is far more lucrative and cheaper for Heupel to make upgrades to his staff and the roster proactively than it is for him to eventually get a buyout.

I get everyone wants to go in on Banks but Heupel has done a horrible job with the OC position since Golesh left.

Until he decides to start making staff changes, he is gonna regress/plateau. It’s a business and for some reason, he thinks the trauma from his time working at OU is more important
 
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#53
#53
McDad said:
Your premise is demonstrably false. Of course, the definition of "big ones" is ambiguous enough the make it argumentative. He has won big games.

Can he evolve? Yes. Take a look at offensive scheme this year as an indication. Will he evolve the way all the "Monday morning QBs" want him to? Probably not.
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Losing your starting QB in the spring was always going to put you behind the 8 Ball. Losing your starting CBs just made things worse. We've beaten the teams we were supposed to beat. We've lost to the teams that we were supposed to. Heup is a good coach and this season is going the way I thought it would.

It sucks to lose to your rival but the sky isn't falling. We got a great class coming in and we got the money to make noise in the portal. Heup is the guy and bright days are ahead.

GBO
 
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#55
#55
djwes said:
CJH took a program that was a dumpster fire and made it reasonably competitive.

He continues to bewilder me with his nonsensical clock management at critical points in games.

On the road, he fails to grasp times when offensively we could take advantage of other teams and calls way too conservative and predictable.

Defense, we are not disciplined and consistent.

What made Nick Saban the goat was that he was never satisfied with sloppy play or bonehead calls regardless of the score.
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Plus he had an abundance of 5 star players. We don’t have that roster or ability to consistently recruit at that level.
 
#56
#56
Rickyvol77 said:
Do I want Tennessee to compete for SEC and national titles? of course

I think we are building towards that, and have been very competitive 3 out of the last 4 seasons.

we have had ineptitude due to coaching and UT leadership from 2008-2020 but that's not where this program is right now...we sure aren't "the laughing stock of the SEC" since only UGA and Bama have been consistently better the past 5 seasons and those are 2 of the 3 best programs in the country...we will finish this season as likely the 8th winningiest team in the country since CJH has been here and making the playoff again likely.

You are acting like we are UK or Vandy or Mizzou or Auburn when we are actually meeting or surpassing expectations every year Josh has been here but 1
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I’m sorry but this is just not the real world.

Heupel was given a 5-6 year leash for taking the job in its current form in 2021. He quickly elevated the program and the lofty expectations after 2 seasons here. It’s now been 3 years since the 2022 season and we have 1 playoff appearance (that took an expanded CFP season) and a 2-6 record vs Bama/Florida/Georgia.

The people that were all pumping the “look where we were 5 years ago” takes are moronic.

Heupel to his credit elevated the program very quickly on a nuclear level. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized for failing to meet lofty expectations he caused.
 
#57
#57
Rickyvol77 said:
Do I want Tennessee to compete for SEC and national titles? of course

I think we are building towards that, and have been very competitive 3 out of the last 4 seasons.

we have had ineptitude due to coaching and UT leadership from 2008-2020 but that's not where this program is right now...we sure aren't "the laughing stock of the SEC" since only UGA and Bama have been consistently better the past 5 seasons and those are 2 of the 3 best programs in the country...we will finish this season as likely the 8th winningiest team in the country since CJH has been here and making the playoff again likely.

You are acting like we are UK or Vandy or Mizzou or Auburn when we are actually meeting or surpassing expectations every year Josh has been here but 1
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Not UK and Vandy but Missouri is spot on. They went 11-2 in 2023 and 9-3 last year. That is about on par with Tennessee. Missouri hasn't won anything meaningful but they are a 8-10 win team every year.

I guess the scars just have a hard time healing. I remember getting shut out at home by Georgia 41-0 or Alabama whooping us 51-17. When is it going to be our team to get revenge on them like they did us? Are we ever going to make it to Atlanta again? My dad bought tickets back in 1990s and still has them. Still waiting on Tennessee to find its way back. If we can win at Florida, I think it will help. At least we would have achieved one meaningful goal for the season.

Even last year, I would have felt fine had we gone up and competed with Ohio State but they made us look like a G5 team. It still feels like we are so far away...
 
#58
#58
vavolfan6 said:
I think it is a bit much to say we are the laughing stock of college football. Opposing fans are going to try and take shots where they can. We had a bad decade in the 2010s, but we are respected again. Florida and Auburn fans would love to be in our position.
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Honestly, I would rather be in Auburn or Florida's position right now because both, at least, have SEC and National Titles this Century. Florida really wasn't even that bad with Dan Mullen as he had them beating Georgia and going to Atlanta a couple of seasons. Auburn has the 2004 and 2010 seasons while Florida has the Tebow era...

A good example of how embarrassing it is to be a Vol is that we are still losing to Florida pretty regularly despite how bad they are. Even last year, it took OT to beat them. Fans on here are scared about going to play a 3-4 Florida team in the swamp. That is insane. USF can do it but we can't.

Beating Florida this year might help drive away a lot of my concerns.
 
#61
#61
JMSqb11 said:
I’m sorry but this is just not the real world.

Heupel was given a 5-6 year leash for taking the job in its current form in 2021. He quickly elevated the program and the lofty expectations after 2 seasons here. It’s now been 3 years since the 2022 season and we have 1 playoff appearance (that took an expanded CFP season) and a 2-6 record vs Bama/Florida/Georgia.

The people that were all pumping the “look where we were 5 years ago” takes are moronic.

Heupel to his credit elevated the program very quickly on a nuclear level. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized for failing to meet lofty expectations he caused.
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He has exceeded or met expectations every year but 1...if he goes 10-2 this year he wouldve had playoff level teams 3 out of 5 seasons (2022 wouldve went to SEC and playoff under current format)

UGA is the only consistent loss he has had
 
#62
#62
volbound1700 said:
We are neither. Tennessee isn't an ELITE program anymore and likely will never be one. This is why I am asking if Alabama is really a rivalry as they are ELITE and we are NOT. If we were ELITE, we would win Championships. This is why fans whine about ESPN and Media but the Media's takes are fair, we don't play for Championships.

Now we aren't quite the dumpster fire of 2010-2020 either. We are just mid-tier. Kind of like Ole Miss or Missouri right now. We are basically just like them.

EDIT: Firing Heupel would be a HUGE mistakes. Coaches just can't win at Tennessee like they can schools and a lot of them don't want to come here, we went through that already.
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Go somewhere else. We need better fans
 
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#64
#64
In response to Heupel “can’t win big games”

2021:
at #18 Kentucky

2022:
at #18 Pitt
#21 Florida
at #24 LSU
#2 Alabama
#20 Kentucky
#7 Clemson (Orange Bowl)

2023:
#17 Iowa (bowl game)

2024:
at #24 NC State
at #15 Oklahoma
#7 Alabama

He’s beaten two top ten Alabama teams. Two Florida teams. Any Florida win is a “big game” for us no matter where they’re ranked (or not ranked). Beating top ten teams like Alabama and Georgia on the road is gonna be a tall order no matter who the coach is. If we had last years defense with this years offense we are likely 7-0 right now. Firing Heupel isn’t the answer. He needs to make some changes, but firing him (and hiring who exactly?) would be a terrible move.
 
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#65
#65
dduncan4163 said:
Losing your starting QB in the spring was always going to put you behind the 8 Ball. Losing your starting CBs just made things worse. We've beaten the teams we were supposed to beat. We've lost to the teams that we were supposed to. Heup is a good coach and this season is going the way I thought it would.

It sucks to lose to your rival but the sky isn't falling. We got a great class coming in and we got the money to make noise in the portal. Heup is the guy and bright days are ahead.

GBO
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I didn’t know we were “supposed to lose” to certain teams.
I thought the goal was to win every game.
 
#66
#66
Evol said:
In response to Heupel “can’t win big games”

2021:
at #18 Kentucky

2022:
at #18 Pitt
#21 Florida
at #24 LSU
#2 Alabama
#20 Kentucky
#7 Clemson (Orange Bowl)

2023:
#17 Iowa (bowl game)

2024:
at #24 NC State
at #15 Oklahoma
#7 Alabama

He’s beaten two top ten Alabama teams. Two Florida teams. Any Florida win is a “big game” for us no matter where they’re ranked (or not ranked). Beating top ten teams like Alabama and Georgia on the road is gonna be a tall order no matter who the coach is. If we had last years defense with this years offense we are likely 7-0 right now. Firing Heupel isn’t the answer. He needs to make some changes, but firing him (and hiring who exactly?) would be a terrible move.
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Some people are stuck in the "we lost two games we suck" and don't realize that college football isnt the same as 1992

Starting with the new playoff, expanded SEC schedule, NIL and other new changes, 9-3 in the SEC gets you to play for a national championship...10-2 guarantees Tennessee a playoff spot and is competition for the SEC titles in most years
 
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#67
#67
Evol said:
In response to Heupel “can’t win big games”

2021:
at #18 Kentucky

2022:
at #18 Pitt
#21 Florida
at #24 LSU
#2 Alabama
#20 Kentucky
#7 Clemson (Orange Bowl)

2023:
#17 Iowa (bowl game)

2024:
at #24 NC State
at #15 Oklahoma
#7 Alabama

He’s beaten two top ten Alabama teams. Two Florida teams. Any Florida win is a “big game” for us no matter where they’re ranked (or not ranked). Beating top ten teams like Alabama and Georgia on the road is gonna be a tall order no matter who the coach is. If we had last years defense with this years offense we are likely 7-0 right now. Firing Heupel isn’t the answer. He needs to make some changes, but firing him (and hiring who exactly?) would be a terrible move.
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This is one of OUR PROBLEMS as a PROGRAM. When Florida is crap, we should be able to beat them, no issue. We can't for some stupid reason. This is part of my complaining. Why can't we be a normal team against them. We should have beat them in 2023, no excuse. This is one of the things that makes being a Tennessee fan so embarrassingly frustrating. We shouldn't be struggling with Florida.
 
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#69
#69
EastTNVol6240 said:
Good coach but not a great coach. You’ll be flamed for saying it. He’s our richt. We gotta decide if this university wants to win 8-9 a year, sometimes 10, or if we want the next level. I suspect we will settle.
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We don’t have a young hotshot alum lined up to step into the job and win immediately like Georgia had.
 
#70
#70
Evol said:
In response to Heupel “can’t win big games”

2021:
at #18 Kentucky

2022:
at #18 Pitt
#21 Florida
at #24 LSU
#2 Alabama
#20 Kentucky
#7 Clemson (Orange Bowl)

2023:
#17 Iowa (bowl game)

2024:
at #24 NC State
at #15 Oklahoma
#7 Alabama

He’s beaten two top ten Alabama teams. Two Florida teams. Any Florida win is a “big game” for us no matter where they’re ranked (or not ranked). Beating top ten teams like Alabama and Georgia on the road is gonna be a tall order no matter who the coach is. If we had last years defense with this years offense we are likely 7-0 right now. Firing Heupel isn’t the answer. He needs to make some changes, but firing him (and hiring who exactly?) would be a terrible move.
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That list got awfully short after 2022.
 
#71
#71
Evol said:
In response to Heupel “can’t win big games”

2021:
at #18 Kentucky

2022:
at #18 Pitt
#21 Florida
at #24 LSU
#2 Alabama
#20 Kentucky
#7 Clemson (Orange Bowl)

2023:
#17 Iowa (bowl game)

2024:
at #24 NC State
at #15 Oklahoma
#7 Alabama

He’s beaten two top ten Alabama teams. Two Florida teams. Any Florida win is a “big game” for us no matter where they’re ranked (or not ranked). Beating top ten teams like Alabama and Georgia on the road is gonna be a tall order no matter who the coach is. If we had last years defense with this years offense we are likely 7-0 right now. Firing Heupel isn’t the answer. He needs to make some changes, but firing him (and hiring who exactly?) would be a terrible move.
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Heupel’s arguably best win on the road is LSU 2022 when you look in totality of the teams in your list that season.

Heupel’s failure to consistently win on the road is what is holding back his status as a top coach in the country. Until he rips the bandaid off and makes staff changes, he will continue to have awful performances on the road in big games.
 
#73
#73
Rickyvol77 said:
Only Bama has won more NCs than Tennessee in the SEC (well Oklahoma technically too)
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Based on what metric? Georgia, LSU, and others have more. Heck, if you are going off the TN 6 claim (which I don't subscribe to as the 1967 team had 2 losses), Auburn claimed more than us recently.

I know in the 21st Century, Auburn, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Texas, etc. all have more titles than Tennessee (who has a goose egg).
 
#74
#74
volbound1700 said:
This is one of OUR PROBLEMS as a PROGRAM. When Florida is crap, we should be able to beat them, no issue. We can't for some stupid reason. This is part of my complaining. Why can't we be a normal team against them. We should have beat them in 2023, no excuse. This is one of the things that makes being a Tennessee fan so embarrassingly frustrating. We shouldn't be struggling with Florida.
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I agree. But like you said this is a problem the previous 5 coaches at Tennessee had as well. It’s a Tennessee problem for some reason. At least Heupel is 2-2. Kiffin, Dooley, Butch and Pruitt went 1-11
 
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#75
#75
CNCVol88 said:
That list got awfully short after 2022.
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We didn’t have a QB that could run our system correctly in 2023. Same as last year. You can see the difference in the offense this year. It looks more like 2022

We also haven’t played many ranked teams this year or last. We still have Oklahoma and Vanderbilt and those will be top 25 wins.
 
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