Josh Heupel Has Elevated Tennessee — But Can He Evolve?

#26
#26
McDad said:
Your premise is demonstrably false. Of course, the definition of "big ones" is ambiguous enough the make it argumentative. He has won big games.

Can he evolve? Yes. Take a look at offensive scheme this year as an indication. Will he evolve the way all the "Monday morning QBs" want him to? Probably not.
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The big games he has won have all come at home with the exception of the 2023 Orange Bowl, which featured several opt-outs on both teams. Until he goes toe-to-toe for 60 minutes with a heavyweight on the road, I think he's hit his ceiling. We will lose 2-3 away games every season and will never compete in an SEC Championship Game while he's here.

And by "heavyweight" I mean a legitimate top 10 team that warrants a prime time ABC game, not a #25 LSU team from 2022 where we were the favorite and the game kicked off at noon.
 
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#27
#27
vavolfan6 said:
Not a fair comparison. Richt had an abundance of talent to recruit from in Georgia, so fans felt he underperformed expectations. Heupel has exceeded expectations with the talent that he had coming into the program. Even now, we are 17th in the country in blue chip ratio players, and made the CFPlast season and hovering around that ranking now in the AP.
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It’s never a fair comparison. There’s always an excuse.
 
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#31
#31
EastTNVol6240 said:
That’s the only retort we ever get from the crowd that refuses to admit Heups ceiling. There are no guarantees in coaching searches. Absolutely 0. You either make a move for better and see if it works or you don’t.
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There's a reason this troll never gives specifics
 
#32
#32
vavolfan6 said:
It's not a fair comparison becuase the situations were vastly different. One coach underperformed the other has overperformed and now is still meeting the same expectations he raised the bar of for the program.
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Raised the bar in comparison to what bar? My bar is where TN football has been in the past.

Others (sounds like yourself as well) choose to use the comparison bar as the dumpster fire that went on for 15-20 yrs.
 
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#33
#33
vavolfan6 said:
Not a fair comparison. Richt had an abundance of talent to recruit from in Georgia, so fans felt he underperformed expectations. Heupel has exceeded expectations with the talent that he had coming into the program. Even now, we are 17th in the country in blue chip ratio players, and made the CFPlast season and hovering around that ranking now in the AP.
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Mark Richt won Championships (2002 and 2005) and had teams in Contention like the 2007 and 2012 team. Heupel doesn't have an SEC Championship.
 
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#34
#34
EastTNVol6240 said:
Raised the bar in comparison to what bar? My bar is where TN football has been in the past.

Others (sounds like yourself as well) choose to use the comparison bar as the dumpster fire that went on for 15-20 yrs.
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We are neither. Tennessee isn't an ELITE program anymore and likely will never be one. This is why I am asking if Alabama is really a rivalry as they are ELITE and we are NOT. If we were ELITE, we would win Championships. This is why fans whine about ESPN and Media but the Media's takes are fair, we don't play for Championships.

Now we aren't quite the dumpster fire of 2010-2020 either. We are just mid-tier. Kind of like Ole Miss or Missouri right now. We are basically just like them.

EDIT: Firing Heupel would be a HUGE mistakes. Coaches just can't win at Tennessee like they can other schools and a lot of them don't want to come here, we went through that already.
 
#35
#35
VolCalls said:
The big games he has won have all come at home with the exception of the 2023 Orange Bowl, which featured several opt-outs on both teams. Until he goes toe-to-toe for 60 minutes with a heavyweight on the road, I think he's hit his ceiling. We will lose 2-3 away games every season and will never compete in an SEC Championship Game while he's here.
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LSU was a heavyweight as was Clemson

But yes he needs to beat Bama or UGA on the road eventually, however no one thought that was going to happen this season beforehand.

We are exactly where we were predicted to be and still on course for a playoff berth
 
#36
#36
Clean up the undisciplined penalties on defense and that game is totally different, IMO. We get at least two more defensive stops and two more possessions if we don’t do boneheaded crap. Add in the 14 point swing before the half and we would have had all the momentum. Heupel is the best football coach we’ve had in 30 years, he’s beaten Bama and Florida, plus a bunch of other teams we’d have been thrilled to have beaten or even hung around in a game with 10 years ago. I’m not saying I’m happy about the result last night. Yes, we looked bad. It sucked to lose that game knowing full well we could have whipped them. But dang, people are trying to run off the best thing we’ve had in 3 decades over a bunch of “bad” losses on the road. I know the stats, don’t come at me. I read them already. I just don’t buy the “fahr Heupel” nonsense, because that’s exactly what it is: nonsense. Go Vols.
 
#37
#37
volbound1700 said:
We are neither. Tennessee isn't an ELITE program anymore and likely will never be one. This is why I am asking if Alabama is really a rivalry as they are ELITE and we are NOT. If we were ELITE, we would win Championships. This is why fans whine about ESPN and Media but the Media's takes are fair, we don't play for Championships.

Now we aren't quite the dumpster fire of 2010-2020 either. We are just mid-tier. Kind of like Ole Miss or Missouri right now. We are basically just like them.

EDIT: Firing Heupel would be a HUGE mistakes. Coaches just can't win at Tennessee like they can other schools and a lot of them don't want to come here, we went through that already.
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Fair points and level headed thoughts.
 
#38
#38
volbound1700 said:
Mark Richt won Championships (2002 and 2005) and had teams in Contention like the 2007 and 2012 team. Heupel doesn't have an SEC Championship.
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Winning an SEC championship 2 years of 15 when they have the state with the best recruiting talent and had a cakewalk to winning the SEC East is considered underperforming. Maybe initially he met the expectation, but fell short over the long term.

Heupel has exceeded expectations since year 1 and maybe it can be argued he is only now meeting them, not exceeding them. Regardless, the circumstances are completely different and it is foolish to compare SEC championships.
 
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#39
#39
The interception at halftime was the whole turning point in the game. That was a 14 point swing. If not for that interception, I see us winning the game.
 
#40
#40
vavolfan6 said:
Winning an SEC championship 2 years of 15 when they have the state with the best recruiting talent and had a cakewalk to winning the SEC East is considered underperforming. Maybe initially he met the expectation, but fell short over the long term.

Heupel has exceeded expectations since year 1 and maybe it can be argued he is only now meeting them, not exceeding them. Regardless, the circumstances are completely different and it is foolish to compare SEC championships.
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Well I get sick of hearing 1998 forever or being on Uncle Lou's "we're back list". We are the laughing stock of the SEC because among the supposedly elite SEC programs we compare ourselves with, we have 0 Championships this Century. Nada. Auburn, LSU, even Florida (with its struggles) have Championships.
 
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#41
#41
Fatman Photos said:
The interception at halftime was the whole turning point in the game. That was a 14 point swing. If not for that interception, I see us winning the game.
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I don't see us necessarily winning but it definitely sets the game up for interesting finish. The real game we lost that we shouldn't have was Georgia. That game will bite us and probably keep us from playoffs.
 
#42
#42
volbound1700 said:
Well I get sick of hearing 1998 forever or being on Uncle Lou's "we're back list". We are the laughing stock of the SEC because among the supposedly elite SEC programs we compare ourselves with, we have 0 Championships this Century. Nada. Auburn, LSU, even Florida (with its struggles) have Championships.
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Have you tried medication? or talking to a therapist?
 
#43
#43
volbound1700 said:
Well I get sick of hearing 1998 forever or being on Uncle Lou's "we're back list". We are the laughing stock of the SEC because among the supposedly elite SEC programs we compare ourselves with, we have 0 Championships this Century. Nada. Auburn, LSU, even Florida (with its struggles) have Championships.
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We have never been a real elite team. We have won a few championships yes but elite is not winning one every 30 or 40 years. We have pretty much been Top Tier but never Elite.
 
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#44
#44
Rickyvol77 said:
Have you tried medication? or talking to a therapist?
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Tell me, this doesn't bother you. 25 years of utter ineptitude by a program with a large fanbase and tons of $$$. The laughing stock of the SEC. Program that losses 15-straight games to their rivals (headline: if you lose like that, you should forfeit the ability to even call it a rivalry as that is UK/Vandy level ineptitude).

None of this bothers you? Watching other programs compete and win but Tennessee always fall flat on its face. 2001 and 2022 are the only, somewhat, good years this Century. You can argue maybe last year but that Ohio State game made it look like we were just a product of a soft schedule.

I know 99% of this isn't on Heupel, but Heupel still gave us 2022 South Carolina, 2023 Florida, 2024 Arkansas and Ohio State, and 0-5 against Georgia type performances.
 
#45
#45
Fatman Photos said:
We have never been a real elite team. We have won a few championships yes but elite is not winning one every 30 or 40 years. We have pretty much been Top Tier but never Elite.
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I would argue even top tier is a stretch as top tier teams don't lose 15 straight games to rivals, go two decades without winning at rivals stadium, and 25+ years without sniffing a Championship.
 
#46
#46
Heupel can evolve. The game against Texas A&M in which he uncharacteristically abandoned the pass in order to slug out a win was a masterpiece. Same last year by relying on defense to get to the playoffs. The major issue Imo that needs to be addressed is the lack of emphasis on details and basic fundamentals. The frequency in which basic mistakes manifest leads me to believe they are not a point of emphasis in practice. In a way he’s the anti-Saban.
 
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#47
#47
vavolfan6 said:
It's not a fair comparison becuase the situations were vastly different. One coach underperformed the other has overperformed and now is still meeting the same expectations he raised the bar of for the program.
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Both coaches underperform. Huepel can't get to the top third of SEC recruiting rankings. Even now we're 8th in the SEC in Recruiting. Sunbelt Billy who may lose his job at any minute is currently beating Huepel in recruiting.
 
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#48
#48
volbound1700 said:
Well I get sick of hearing 1998 forever or being on Uncle Lou's "we're back list". We are the laughing stock of the SEC because among the supposedly elite SEC programs we compare ourselves with, we have 0 Championships this Century. Nada. Auburn, LSU, even Florida (with its struggles) have Championships.
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I think it is a bit much to say we are the laughing stock of college football. Opposing fans are going to try and take shots where they can. We had a bad decade in the 2010s, but we are respected again. Florida and Auburn fans would love to be in our position.
 
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#50
#50
volbound1700 said:
Tell me, this doesn't bother you. 25 years of utter ineptitude by a program with a large fanbase and tons of $$$. The laughing stock of the SEC. Program that losses 15-straight games to their rivals (headline: if you lose like that, you should forfeit the ability to even call it a rivalry as that is UK/Vandy level ineptitude).

None of this bothers you? Watching other programs compete and win but Tennessee always fall flat on its face. 2001 and 2022 are the only, somewhat, good years this Century. You can argue maybe last year but that Ohio State game made it look like we were just a product of a soft schedule.

I know 99% of this isn't on Heupel, but Heupel still gave us 2022 South Carolina, 2023 Florida, 2024 Arkansas and Ohio State, and 0-5 against Georgia type performances.
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Do I want Tennessee to compete for SEC and national titles? of course

I think we are building towards that, and have been very competitive 3 out of the last 4 seasons.

we have had ineptitude due to coaching and UT leadership from 2008-2020 but that's not where this program is right now...we sure aren't "the laughing stock of the SEC" since only UGA and Bama have been consistently better the past 5 seasons and those are 2 of the 3 best programs in the country...we will finish this season as likely the 8th winningiest team in the country since CJH has been here and making the playoff again likely.

You are acting like we are UK or Vandy or Mizzou or Auburn when we are actually meeting or surpassing expectations every year Josh has been here but 1
 
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