Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are CLEARLY the 2 best QBs in the 2018 NFL Draft

[VolsSportsFan]

Actually they do. See this: Cut NFL players who managed great careers

Johnny Unitas
Kurt Warner
Cris Carter

Just a few names who were cut early in their careers but went on to have Hall of Fame careers.

Cris Carter was cut because he had a falling out with Buddy Ryan and admitted addiction problems; it had zero to do with his ability or expectations, as he had already established himself as a receiver by his second season. So that one isn't even remotely comparable.

Johnny Unitas was cut but by the end of his second season he was starting, and by his 3rd he was an NFL star.

At this point Kurt Warner is the only one you can hold up as proof that Dobb can end up a HOFer, because it's the only one that is even remotely comparable to Dobbs' situation. And if you want Dobbs to follow that, then you better hope Dobbs gets cut and he gets a chance to tear up the CFL or XFL and then come back. Because that's what Warner did, he tore it up in the Arena Football League and then NFL Europe and then got another shot at 28. Also you Warren Moon, same thing; tore it up for 6 years in the CFL and the Oilers got him when he was 28.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

How? Dobbs is a 25 year old in a league where QBs are now playing into their late 30s and early 40s. Aaron Rodgers didn't become a starter until he was 24 years old. Warren Moon wasn't a NFL starter until he was 28. Same with Kurt Warner.

Dobbs can easily still have a Hall of Fame career. He just needs a fair shot. When he gets it he will ball out like Lamar in 2019 and Josh Allen thus far in 2020.

Rodgers was drafted and groomed as Favre's replacement; from day one they planned for that to happen. I've already addressed Moon and Warner, if you want that then Dobbs needs to go tear it up in an non-NFL league.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

He's got plenty of time. He's just 25 years old in a league that has QBs now playing into their 40s.

He'll get his chance at some point. And when he does he will be a SUPERSTAR. I ain't budging off that projection even in the least.

Those 40+ QBs have something in common that Dobbs doesn't; they were starters for a good while by the time they were at the same spot Dobbs is at.

 

[n_huffhines]

Remember when D4H turned heel and went in on Dobbs?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You predicted the specific game during which he would take over en route to a Super Bowl win.

If I was that good at predicting specific events, I'd own all of Vegas by now.

I evaluate talent. I can't predict the future. I may try to but its just that a prediction. No different than picking which team will win a game before its played.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

So you're defense is "there's no telling where his career goes"? This guy wasn't some crazy outlier that did good. Kaaya was a guy you said would be a surefire franchise QB. The one absolute, certain, zero ambiguity thing we can say is he impressed nobody with his ability while healthy. There's also zero ambiguity in there's no possible way to claim "well, in another timeline that bears no resemblance to the one we're in something different might have occurred...eventually" as some kind of win. Take the L.

The only thing funnier than you trying to obfuscate the above is invoking the hilarious "He is one of my few misses."

Can't predict career ending injuries. How the hell was I supposed to know he would have spine surgery after his rookie year and never recover from it?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Don’t short yourself while Kelvin Taylor exists.

LOL. I was hoping you would forget that one. I pride myself on evaluating RBs. That was an unfortunate miss. I really thought he was gonna be good.

But hey you can't get em all right. My 2017 RB class looks good though. I had Kamara, Mixon, Conner, and McCaffrey pegged as stars. Fournette and Cook as a busts. 5 outta 6 ain't bad.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Cris Carter was cut because he had a falling out with Buddy Ryan and admitted addiction problems; it had zero to do with his ability or expectations, as he had already established himself as a receiver by his second season. So that one isn't even remotely comparable.

Johnny Unitas was cut but by the end of his second season he was starting, and by his 3rd he was an NFL star.

At this point Kurt Warner is the only one you can hold up as proof that Dobb can end up a HOFer, because it's the only one that is even remotely comparable to Dobbs' situation. And if you want Dobbs to follow that, then you better hope Dobbs gets cut and he gets a chance to tear up the CFL or XFL and then come back. Because that's what Warner did, he tore it up in the Arena Football League and then NFL Europe and then got another shot at 28. Also you Warren Moon, same thing; tore it up for 6 years in the CFL and the Oilers got him when he was 28.

Oh I know all that. You just said HOF players don't get cut, traded, or looked over. I cited that link showing examples of HOF who were cut and over looked. Sure their specific stories are different from Dobbs but in the end they were overlooked for at least some time before they got their opportunity and showed out.

Dobbs story will be different but the ending will be the same. He'll have a bust in Canton like those other legends who were over looked to start their careers.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Rodgers was drafted and groomed as Favre's replacement; from day one they planned for that to happen. I've already addressed Moon and Warner, if you want that then Dobbs needs to go tear it up in an non-NFL league.

Never said Dobbs story was the same as theirs. Just used age as an example to show he's got plenty of time. Many Hall of Famers had their careers take off right about the same age Dobbs is now and over the next few years.

Have patience. Once Dobbs gets his chance he will be exactly what I said he would be. His story is just taking longer to develop.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Those 40+ QBs have something in common that Dobbs doesn't; they were starters for a good while by the time they were at the same spot Dobbs is at.

Not Rodgers, Moon, and Warner. I just told you they became NFL starters at 24, 28, and 28 years old. Also Brees was not Hall of Fame caliber until he joined Sean Payton at 27 years old. Russell Wilson was also a rookie at 24 years old.

Dobbs at 25 years old still has time on his side. He just needs his shot to be starter. Once that happens he will take off. Just as he took off at Tennessee after he got his chance against Alabama in 2014.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Remember when D4H turned heel and went in on Dobbs?

I was joking. And was about say it was a joke when the moderator of the forum banned me for like a month.

 

[hndog609]

Can't predict career ending injuries. How the hell was I supposed to know he would have spine surgery after his rookie year and never recover from it?

Had my interest for a second until I realized that must have been the most minor spinal surgery in history. Seriously how many citings can you find for that ever even happening? Hell, it didn't even garner being mentioned on his wiki page. The statement that he impressed nobody while healthy still stands as that surgery took place after being waived twice and being signed off a practice team. Not exactly the tale of a rising star cut down by injury.

 

[butchna]

Can't predict career ending injuries. How the hell was I supposed to know he would have spine surgery after his rookie year and never recover from it?

Wasn’t a factor well before then. It’s a miss for you.

 

[n_huffhines]

I was joking. And was about say it was a joke when the moderator of the forum banned me for like a month.

Your biggest problem is you think people will buy whatever you sell

 

[hndog609]

LOL. I was hoping you would forget that one. I pride myself on evaluating RBs. That was an unfortunate miss. I really thought he was gonna be good.

But hey you can't get em all right. My 2017 RB class looks good though. I had Kamara, Mixon, Conner, and McCaffrey pegged as stars. Fournette and Cook as a busts. 5 outta 6 ain't bad.

You realize you listed 7 backs for the 2017 class as Pro Bowl talent. Only Kamara and McCaffrey have reached that mark. And other than Cook having some injury issues Mixon compares poorly to that "bust". Other names that haven't come close to PB status are Matt Breida, Jamaal Williams and Samage Perine.

Conspicuously absent is your overt dissing of Kareem Hunt from that class..."fool's gold" I recall.

Amnesia's a bitch.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Not Rodgers, Moon, and Warner. I just told you they became NFL starters at 24, 28, and 28 years old. Also Brees was not Hall of Fame caliber until he joined Sean Payton at 27 years old. Russell Wilson was also a rookie at 24 years old.

Dobbs at 25 years old still has time on his side. He just needs his shot to be starter. Once that happens he will take off. Just as he took off at Tennessee after he got his chance against Alabama in 2014.

Math is hard.

Also with Brees, uh...he was Comeback Player of the Year in 2004, made the Pro Bowl, and put up great numbers, and lead the team to the AFC West title.

You know what else Russell Wilson was doing his rookie year? Starting from Game 1; because he beat out the other 2 QBs....in training camp. Not exactly a good example for you.

Moon and Warner have already been addressed, and have already been pointed out to you a million times they are outliers.

The point with all of these examples is all those games had way more actual gametime professional football experience than Dobbs at this point. Most of them were already NFL starters by Dobbs' age, and the 2 that weren't as I said had already balled out in other pro leagues to get interest. Meanwhile your future HOFer is in his 4th year and isn't even dressing out for games, and it has nothing to do with injury.

 

[05_never_again]

Math is hard.

Also with Brees, uh...he was Comeback Player of the Year in 2004, made the Pro Bowl, and put up great numbers, and lead the team to the AFC West title.

You know what else Russell Wilson was doing his rookie year? Starting from Game 1; because he beat out the other 2 QBs....in training camp. Not exactly a good example for you.

Moon and Warner have already been addressed, and have already been pointed out to you a million times they are outliers.

The point with all of these examples is all those games had way more actual gametime professional football experience than Dobbs at this point. Most of them were already NFL starters by Dobbs' age, and the 2 that weren't as I said had already balled out in other pro leagues to get interest. Meanwhile your future HOFer is in his 4th year and isn't even dressing out for games, and it has nothing to do with injury.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Moon's, Brees's, and Wilson's career arcs are nothing like Dobbs's; just the age thing, which I think is kind of missing the point. I don't even think Aaron Rodgers's is all that comparable either because he was the clear heir apparent to a HOF QB.

The only name thrown out there that is remotely comparable is Warner, but that's quite a claim to say that you're gonna pick the next outlier (by definition, aren't those things pretty much unpredictable?). But that's par for the course with D4H.

Never said Dobbs story was the same as theirs. Just used age as an example to show he's got plenty of time. Many Hall of Famers had their careers take off right about the same age Dobbs is now and over the next few years.

I think you should consider the possibility that those guys had their careers take off at those ages because of the specific circumstances they found themselves in, all of which were different than Dobbs.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

That's kind of what I was thinking. Moon's, Brees's, and Wilson's career arcs are nothing like Dobbs's; just the age thing, which I think is kind of missing the point. I don't even think Aaron Rodgers's is all that comparable either because he was the clear heir apparent to a HOF QB.

The only name thrown out there that is remotely comparable is Warner, but that's quite a claim to say that you're gonna pick the next outlier (by definition, aren't those things pretty much unpredictable?). But that's par for the course with D4H.

I think you should consider the possibility that those guys had their careers take off at those ages because of the specific circumstances they found themselves in, all of which were different than Dobbs.

Yep. Most of his examples aren't remotely comparable.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Had my interest for a second until I realized that must have been the most minor spinal surgery in history. Seriously how many citings can you find for that ever even happening? Hell, it didn't even garner being mentioned on his wiki page. The statement that he impressed nobody while healthy still stands as that surgery took place after being waived twice and being signed off a practice team. Not exactly the tale of a rising star cut down by injury.

LOL @ spine surgery being minor.

Regardless of your spin, he hasn't been on a roster since the surgery. While before he was bouncing around on practice squads.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Your biggest problem is you think people will buy whatever you sell

Actually I don't care what any of you think. I just speak my truth. Its actually you guys who get all hot and bothered about my takes.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You realize you listed 7 backs for the 2017 class as Pro Bowl talent. Only Kamara and McCaffrey have reached that mark. And other than Cook having some injury issues Mixon compares poorly to that "bust". Other names that haven't come close to PB status are Matt Breida, Jamaal Williams and Samage Perine.

Conspicuously absent is your overt dissing of Kareem Hunt from that class..."fool's gold" I recall.

Amnesia's a bitch.

Might wanna double check your research. James Conner made the Pro Bowl his 2nd year. Joe Mixon just got that huge deal and has put up Pro Bowl numbers. The Bengals have just been so bad he's gotten overlooked.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Math is hard.

Also with Brees, uh...he was Comeback Player of the Year in 2004, made the Pro Bowl, and put up great numbers, and lead the team to the AFC West title.

You know what else Russell Wilson was doing his rookie year? Starting from Game 1; because he beat out the other 2 QBs....in training camp. Not exactly a good example for you.

Moon and Warner have already been addressed, and have already been pointed out to you a million times they are outliers.

The point with all of these examples is all those games had way more actual gametime professional football experience than Dobbs at this point. Most of them were already NFL starters by Dobbs' age, and the 2 that weren't as I said had already balled out in other pro leagues to get interest. Meanwhile your future HOFer is in his 4th year and isn't even dressing out for games, and it has nothing to do with injury.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Moon's, Brees's, and Wilson's career arcs are nothing like Dobbs's; just the age thing, which I think is kind of missing the point. I don't even think Aaron Rodgers's is all that comparable either because he was the clear heir apparent to a HOF QB.

The only name thrown out there that is remotely comparable is Warner, but that's quite a claim to say that you're gonna pick the next outlier (by definition, aren't those things pretty much unpredictable?). But that's par for the course with D4H.

I think you should consider the possibility that those guys had their careers take off at those ages because of the specific circumstances they found themselves in, all of which were different than Dobbs.

Once again. I never said Dobbs situation was similar to them. I simply cited the ages to show he still has plenty of time in the NFL to have a legendary career. Its not like he's a RB whose best years would have already passed him up. If this was Kamara and I was still touting him as a future Hall of Famer despite not playing his first 4 years, you would have a point. Alvin would be significantly behind the 8-ball given the nature of the RB position. However, as a QB, Dobbs has plenty of time.

For the final time I am not saying his career arc is the same as those other QBs. Just that he still has time on his side.

 

[hndog609]

Might wanna double check your research. James Conner made the Pro Bowl his 2nd year. Joe Mixon just got that huge deal and has put up Pro Bowl numbers. The Bengals have just been so bad he's gotten overlooked.

My bad, I thought I had put in Conner in the PB club. And that wasn't a dig at Mixon but at you calling Cook a bust. Feel free to compare Cook's production vs Mixon's. Cook has a higher ypc, ypg, and even with 15 fewer games played 4 more rushing TD's.

And nice silence on the other backs cited in that post.

 

[hndog609]

LOL @ spine surgery being minor.

Regardless of your spin, he hasn't been on a roster since the surgery. While before he was bouncing around on practice squads.

Two separate observations. Let's slow walk you through them.

1. Whatever his surgery was it was not enough to make any kind of news. Not even a wiki page mention. This is most likely because

2. Nobody gave an ish because even if whatever that surgery was turned out to be career ending there was insufficient career to notice. From my post you quoted:

"The statement that he impressed nobody while healthy still stands as that surgery took place after being waived twice and being signed off a practice team. Not exactly the tale of a rising star cut down by injury."

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

My bad, I thought I had put in Conner in the PB club. And that wasn't a dig at Mixon but at you calling Cook a bust. Feel free to compare Cook's production vs Mixon's. Cook has a higher ypc, ypg, and even with 15 fewer games played 4 more rushing TD's.

Cook has had a way better team around him.

I'll admit I was wrong about Cook. He's been stellar in the NFL (when healthy). But using stats to say he's better than Mixon when he has had far better offensive lineman and QB play around him is unfair to Mixon.

I would say Mixon and Cook are on the same level talent-wise.