JonBenet Ramsey Case

[Grey_pilgrim]

DocG believes that John first typed the note out on computer and printed in manuscript and then copied it to make it look different than his handwriting. That is why so many of the letters look like manuscript.

Or Patsy could've had written it. Seems like doing all that would take a long time. I tend to believe that both parents were involved in some way helping cover up for whoever committed the murder.

 

[wildnkrazykat]

Proof?

 

[Sandvol]

Or Patsy could've had written it. Seems like doing all that would take a long time. I tend to believe that both parents were involved in some way helping cover up for whoever committed the murder.

If both parents were involved then they would have gotten rid of the body before calling the police. This is the only thing that would explain the ransom note.

 

[Sandvol]

Proof?

Proof what?

 

[Sandvol]

Or Patsy could've had written it. Seems like doing all that would take a long time. I tend to believe that both parents were involved in some way helping cover up for whoever committed the murder.

Also, if Patsy could have written it then that would imply both parents were involved in at least the cover up. Then how do you explain the ransom note, the 911 call before getting rid of the body?

 

[mcompton]

lulz

 

[Sandvol]

There are only so many scenarios if the intruder theory is ruled out. The perpetrator had to be one of three people. It is easy to rule out Burke because if he did it then his parents would have covered and it would not explain the ransom note or the 911 call. If both parents were in it together then that still would not explain the ransom note and the 911 call before getting rid of the body. Then that would imply either one or the other. Which scenario-John did it or Patsy did it-best fits all the facts of the case? That is easy to see.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

DocG believes that John first typed the note out on computer and printed in manuscript and then copied it to make it look different than his handwriting. That is why so many of the letters look like manuscript.

Also why would he go through that much trouble to write a note and not get rid of the body? Seems like that would've been easier.

 

[Sandvol]

Also why would he go through that much trouble to write a note and not get rid of the body? Seems like that would've been easier.

Exactly, Patsy foiled his plan by panicking and making the 911 call. Remember it would have taken a long time to get rid of the body. He would have needed at least a day to finish his staging, go to the bank, and get rid of the body. He was trying to buy time. Also, that is why $118,000 was chosen because it is a recent sum he had gotten as a bonus. He would have to do everything quickly because he had to get rid of the body quickly and also prove he went to the bank. It had to be an amount he could get quickly.

 

[wildnkrazykat]

Proof what?

That ur big brother is innocent theory is correct.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Also, if Patsy could have written it then that would imply both parents were involved in at least the cover up. Then how do you explain the ransom note, the 911 call before getting rid of the body?

Honestly I never followed the case closely enough to answer those questions. I manly was commenting on the handwriting.

 

[Sandvol]

That ur big brother is innocent theory is correct.

It is the least plausible scenario based upon the facts. If you read my above posts if Burke did it then that would logically imply both parents were involved in the cover up. Why would they do that when they could just explain it away as an accident between two siblings? He was only 9 and couldn't be prosecuted. Why would they take the risk if Burke did it? Then why would they write the ransom note and not get rid of the body? The Burke did it theory is the least plausible. Not saying it couldn't happen but that is least likely.

 

[Sandvol]

Honestly I never followed the case closely enough to answer those questions. I manly was commenting on the handwriting.

You are illustrating one of the problems with the case all these years is all the fantastic theories and speculation not based upon the facts. But, if you just look at the facts and only the facts of the case the preponderance of evidence points in mainly one direction. One of the myths that has circulated all these years is that Patsy wrote the note. Well, that is speculation not supported by any fact.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Exactly, Patsy foiled his plan by panicking and making the 911 call. Remember it would have taken a long time to get rid of the body. He would have needed at least a day to finish his staging, go to the bank, and get rid of the body. He was trying to buy time. Also, that is why $118,000 was chosen because it is a recent sum he had gotten as a bonus. He would have to do everything quickly because he had to get rid of the body quickly and also prove he went to the bank. It had to be an amount he could get quickly.

The 118,000 never made sense to me. Why would he do that? He had to of known people would connect the dots with his bonus.

 

[Sandvol]

The 118,000 never made sense to me. Why would he do that? He had to of known people would connect the dots with his bonus.

He had to have large enough sum to make it seem plausible and a sum that he could get to quickly. If it were a much larger sum like a million dollars it would take him much longer to get and he needed to dispose of the body quickly. Also, if you think about it he would have to dispose of the money some way maybe even burn it. It is much easier to burn $118,000 than a million. Also, he could always claim like he did that it must be someone who knows him and knows about his bonus and was jealous. You've also have got to understand he was under time constraint and pressure and probably didn't think of every hole in his scheme. I'm sure he was shocked that his wife ignored the instructions of the note and called the police but being the sociopath he was didn't understand the degree of her panic. And, I'll also bet he was even more shocked he wasn't arrested that very day.

 

[Toujours Pret]

The dots don't even slightly align enough to insinuate that John Ramsey did this, or was connected in any way.

The 3 legitimate suspects are Craig James, Garry Shandling, or an unnamed intruder, possibly with ninja training.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

He had to have large enough sum to make it seem plausible and a sum that he could get to quickly. If it were a much larger sum like a million dollars it would take him much longer to get and he needed to dispose of the body quickly. Also, if you think about it he would have to dispose of the money some way maybe even burn it. It is much easier to burn $118,000 than a million. Also, he could always claim like he did that it must be someone who knows him and knows about his bonus and was jealous. You've also have got to understand he was under time constraint and pressure and probably didn't think of every hole in his scheme.

Seems reasonable enough, though why not make 100,000 or 150,000 thousand? Just so it wasn't the exact amount.

 

[mcompton]

The dots don't even slightly align enough to insinuate that John Ramsey did this, or was connected in any way.

The 3 legitimate suspects are Craig James, Garry Shandling, or an unnamed intruder, possibly with ninja training.

This...never underestimate ninja training

 

[Sandvol]

Seems reasonable enough, though why not make 100,000 or 150,000 thousand? Just so it wasn't the exact amount.

That is hard to know and we are speculating now. The $118,000 was the sum he had just earned. And, like I said above he probably did not think of every potential hole in his scheme. We do know the ransom called for $118,000 and we do know he had just gotten about that amount in a recent bonus. Those are the only facts we know. You can infer that he would ask for that amount based on those facts. You can't infer anything else. Well, sorry you could also infer he would probably burn the money to get rid of the evidence. But that is all I think.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Why are you so passionate about this case? Do you have a connection to it or the people involved?

 

[Sandvol]

Why are you so passionate about this case? Do you have a connection to it or the people involved?

No I've always been a problem solver. And, I read a lot of fictional and non-fictional cases about crime. This case has always intrigued me. I would really love to see John Ramsey tried for the murder. I don't like the fact that he has gotten away with it. And, the recent anniversary of her death brought these emotions back.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

That is hard to know and we are speculating now. The $118,000 was the sum he had just earned. And, like I said above he probably did not think of every potential hole in his scheme. We do know the ransom called for $118,000 and we do know he had just gotten about that amount in a recent bonus. Those are the only facts we know. You can infer that he would ask for that amount based on those facts. You can't infer anything else. Well, sorry you could also infer he would probably burn the money to get rid of the evidence. But that is all I think.

You definitely seem to know more about this case than I do so I will default to your judgement. I may look into it more when I find the time. Like I said I haven't followed the case that close but it always interested me when it came up.

 

[Coug]

I’ll address each one of these issues one at a time:

One of the problems you are having is you are introducing possibilities but not probabilities. Yes, Patsy could have written the ransom note with her own pen and stationary and then made the 911 call mentioning the ransom note thinking that the police wouldn’t think she would be dumb enough to make the 911 call after writing an incriminating note but is that the most plausible scenario? Why would someone go to so much trouble to point away from themselves and then leave a potentially incriminating ransom note written with her own pen and a “garrote” with her own paintbrush handle? And, why would Patsy write a two and a half page note (i.e. why not a short note?) and then call the police after the note said not to call the police? She could have done that but is that the most plausible explanation? When you try to solve cases like these you can introduce a million possibilities but you have to systematically throw out all the least probable scenarios until you arrive at the most probable.

Now you’re getting to the crux of the case and that is the purpose of the ransom note and the 911 call. The ransom note wasn’t meant for the police. It was meant for Patsy to give him time to dispose of the body. When he killed Jon Benet he didn’t have time or wouldn’t be able to dispose of the body without arousing his family or neighbors. He placed the body in the most remote room of the house and covered it with blankets and then wrote the note leaving it at the bottom of the stairs for Patsy to discover. However, instead of following the instructions of the note Patsy panicked and called 911 and ruined John’s plans. (You see if Patsy had found Jon Benet missing before finding the note she might have started searching the house and found the body so he had to leave the note at the bottom of the stairs where he knew Patsy went every morning to check on the kids. If you think about each fact of the case it all starts falling into place. If Patsy or both had written the note she would have left it on the table or some other place.) If she had done as the note had instructed and not called the police then John would have had Patsy and Burke go stay with friends for their safety while he waited for the kidnappers’ “call” and delivered the ransom. This would have given him a chance to put the body in the trunk of the car and dispose of it. Then he could tell Patsy the kidnappers instructed him to deliver the ransom and the note (he was going to have to find a way to get rid of the note too) but did not return their daughter. Also, it would allow him time to finish the staging of the basement window “break in”. They would then call the police and tell the fantastic story but the body had been disposed of. Patsy would be able to verify there was a ransom note and maybe even gotten a neighbor or two involved to corroborate. This is the most plausible explanation for the ransom note and the 911 call the way it happened. If they were both involved the 911 call would never have happened because there would be no need to call the police until they disposed of the body. (Also they would not have written the note on their own paper with their own pen but probably printed it. John had access to all kinds of printers he could have disposed of.)

The only people I’ve seen argue the chronic evidence is the Ramsey’s attorneys or their family and friends. Four of the most prominent forensic pathologists in the country have concluded and this includes Cyril Wecht (and this was in his book) that after reviewing the autopsy report it indicated both acute and chronic vaginal trauma. And, who would have been the most likely perpetrator? Would it not be the only sexually mature male in the home? Could you make a case that someone else was abusing Jon Benet, of course? It could have been another family member or family friend. But who is the most likely culprit? Who is the one the lead investigator on the very first day suspected? Who is the only one who had constant access to Jon Benet without arousing her mother’s suspicion? Who could have done it and then “fit” all the other facts of the case?

You don’t have to be a smart elec. Just state your case. Which multiple FBI profilers are you talking about? There were six handwriting “experts” who examined the note and two of them were hired by the Ramsey’s and those two collaborated with the state’s examiners. Isn’t that somewhat disconcerting to you? John Ramsey is the one who controlled what handwriting samples his attorneys and examiners saw as well as the state’s examiners. And, based on these samples John was “ruled out” but Patsy’s samples were inconclusive. But I’ll let you decide for yourself. I'll attach copies of sample of their handwriting on a post below. (This is the only copy of John’s handwriting that has surfaced but all kinds of copies of Patsy’s have surfaced.) Just on the face of it and looking at the samples whose handwriting looks most like the ransom note? And, then tell me how John was “ruled out.”

If more than one family member were involved then they would have disposed of the body before calling the police. That is the most easy to debunk. Not only could John and John alone have done it, he is the most likely based upon the facts of the case.

It's an interesting and plausible theory that John Ramsey did it. To be honest the whole case is bizarre and I don't think we'll ever find out what really went down that night or who all in that house was involved.

Another sample of Patsy's writing from a different pageant. The "R", "a", and "s" match the ransom note too closely for me.

As far as for the autopsy though this is the ME had to say about her:
"Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation. the smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contain epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion. A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringent foreign material. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen."

I personally can't translate all that into laymans terms but maybe someone else can.

And your theory that JR did it has far too many variables and a conspiracy theory involving many people who could just turn a blind eye. It's unrealistic.

It was the brother.

I have not ruled this theory out either and can't. If you saw the "rope" that bound her hands (which looks very much like shoe string to me but no site I find ever mentions that) it looks like a 9 year old kid tied it. One of the wrist ties that supposedly held her wrists was much larger than the other as though they had no idea what they were doing and couldn't even tie it right.

If it was the brother then that would imply both John and Patsy were covering. If they were both involved then they would have gotten rid of the body before calling the police. Also, Burke was only nine at the time he couldn't be charged with a crime in Colorado. Why would they stage a sexual assault and strangulation when they could explain it as an accident and get her treated? Remember the blow didn't kill her but the strangulation did.

Easy explanation for not dumping the body is that they had the stomach to cover for Burke but they couldn't stomach tossing their own childs body out like it was garbage. "Proper burial" and all that.

Also, if Patsy could have written it then that would imply both parents were involved in at least the cover up. Then how do you explain the ransom note, the 911 call before getting rid of the body?

Why can you not imagine someone faking a 911 call?

To my untrained eye the school form on the top and the ransom note look very similar.

Edit: sorry just saw that wasn't a school form but a parade form.

I agree.

Also why would he go through that much trouble to write a note and not get rid of the body? Seems like that would've been easier.

He would have. He could have easily snuck out of that gigantic house without rousing the two other people sleeping in it. If JR did it, then after all he did tie her up and strangle her in the basement without waking anybody up.

 

[YankeeVol]

My head hurts

 

[Coug]

My head hurts