JonBenet Ramsey Case

#126
#126
Sandvol said:
Have you ever looked at a sample of John Ramsey's hand writing? Probably not because he was ruled out right? Oh, yeah, she wrote it left handed right? A two and a half page note left handed. Very talented lady especially right after she killed her daughter. If she wrote the note then why is SHE the one who made the 911 call? And, why did SHE write the note after sexually assaulting her daughter with the body still in the house? And, why would SHE leave a potentially incriminating note if SHE was the one who did it? If you would just read the note and try to understand its purpose in the context of the case you would understand the case. The note was not the ravings of a lunatic-it was written by a sociopath. It had a specific purpose. It is the only explanation that fits the facts of the case.
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Not only did she think the note was convincing enough but she probably thought that if she made the phone call it would further put distance between either her(if she did it) or whoever did it.

Why would John leave an incriminating note if he's the one that did it?

The autopsy report I saw didn't indicate recent sexual activity but chronic. Even the chronic evidence has been argued by many.

The note was analyzed by multiple FBI profilers and concluded to have been written by a female. You apparently are more well trained than they are I guess?

Could John have done it, absolutely. Like I said from the beginning I'm certain one of, if not more of the family members did it.

Here's an idea I bet nobody thought of.. Jonbenet really killed herself and the family was so sure that they'd be seen as guilty they threw together a plan to make it look like she was murdered.
 
#127
#127
I’ll address each one of these issues one at a time:
“Not only did she think the note was convincing enough but she probably thought that if she made the phone call it would further put distance between either her(if she did it) or whoever did it.”

One of the problems you are having is you are introducing possibilities but not probabilities. Yes, Patsy could have written the ransom note with her own pen and stationary and then made the 911 call mentioning the ransom note thinking that the police wouldn’t think she would be dumb enough to make the 911 call after writing an incriminating note but is that the most plausible scenario? Why would someone go to so much trouble to point away from themselves and then leave a potentially incriminating ransom note written with her own pen and a “garrote” with her own paintbrush handle? And, why would Patsy write a two and a half page note (i.e. why not a short note?) and then call the police after the note said not to call the police? She could have done that but is that the most plausible explanation? When you try to solve cases like these you can introduce a million possibilities but you have to systematically throw out all the least probable scenarios until you arrive at the most probable.

“Why would John leave an incriminating note if he's the one that did it?”

Now you’re getting to the crux of the case and that is the purpose of the ransom note and the 911 call. The ransom note wasn’t meant for the police. It was meant for Patsy to give him time to dispose of the body. When he killed Jon Benet he didn’t have time or wouldn’t be able to dispose of the body without arousing his family or neighbors. He placed the body in the most remote room of the house and covered it with blankets and then wrote the note leaving it at the bottom of the stairs for Patsy to discover. However, instead of following the instructions of the note Patsy panicked and called 911 and ruined John’s plans. (You see if Patsy had found Jon Benet missing before finding the note she might have started searching the house and found the body so he had to leave the note at the bottom of the stairs where he knew Patsy went every morning to check on the kids. If you think about each fact of the case it all starts falling into place. If Patsy or both had written the note she would have left it on the table or some other place.) If she had done as the note had instructed and not called the police then John would have had Patsy and Burke go stay with friends for their safety while he waited for the kidnappers’ “call” and delivered the ransom. This would have given him a chance to put the body in the trunk of the car and dispose of it. Then he could tell Patsy the kidnappers instructed him to deliver the ransom and the note (he was going to have to find a way to get rid of the note too) but did not return their daughter. Also, it would allow him time to finish the staging of the basement window “break in”. They would then call the police and tell the fantastic story but the body had been disposed of. Patsy would be able to verify there was a ransom note and maybe even gotten a neighbor or two involved to corroborate. This is the most plausible explanation for the ransom note and the 911 call the way it happened. If they were both involved the 911 call would never have happened because there would be no need to call the police until they disposed of the body. (Also they would not have written the note on their own paper with their own pen but probably printed it. John had access to all kinds of printers he could have disposed of.)

“The autopsy report I saw didn't indicate recent sexual activity but chronic. Even the chronic evidence has been argued by many.”

The only people I’ve seen argue the chronic evidence is the Ramsey’s attorneys or their family and friends. Four of the most prominent forensic pathologists in the country have concluded and this includes Cyril Wecht (and this was in his book) that after reviewing the autopsy report it indicated both acute and chronic vaginal trauma. And, who would have been the most likely perpetrator? Would it not be the only sexually mature male in the home? Could you make a case that someone else was abusing Jon Benet, of course? It could have been another family member or family friend. But who is the most likely culprit? Who is the one the lead investigator on the very first day suspected? Who is the only one who had constant access to Jon Benet without arousing her mother’s suspicion? Who could have done it and then “fit” all the other facts of the case?

“The note was analyzed by multiple FBI profilers and concluded to have been written by a female. You apparently are more well trained than they are I guess?”[/

You don’t have to be a smart elec. Just state your case. Which multiple FBI profilers are you talking about? There were six handwriting “experts” who examined the note and two of them were hired by the Ramsey’s and those two collaborated with the state’s examiners. Isn’t that somewhat disconcerting to you? John Ramsey is the one who controlled what handwriting samples his attorneys and examiners saw as well as the state’s examiners. And, based on these samples John was “ruled out” but Patsy’s samples were inconclusive. But I’ll let you decide for yourself. I'll attach copies of sample of their handwriting on a post below. (This is the only copy of John’s handwriting that has surfaced but all kinds of copies of Patsy’s have surfaced.) Just on the face of it and looking at the samples whose handwriting looks most like the ransom note? And, then tell me how John was “ruled out.”

“Could John have done it, absolutely. Like I said from the beginning I'm certain one of, if not more of the family members did it.”

If more than one family member were involved then they would have disposed of the body before calling the police. That is the most easy to debunk. Not only could John and John alone have done it, he is the most likely based upon the facts of the case.
 
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#129
#129
coug said:
Not only did she think the note was convincing enough but she probably thought that if she made the phone call it would further put distance between either her(if she did it) or whoever did it.

Why would John leave an incriminating note if he's the one that did it?

The autopsy report I saw didn't indicate recent sexual activity but chronic. Even the chronic evidence has been argued by many.

The note was analyzed by multiple FBI profilers and concluded to have been written by a female. You apparently are more well trained than they are I guess?

Could John have done it, absolutely. Like I said from the beginning I'm certain one of, if not more of the family members did it.

Here's an idea I bet nobody thought of.. Jonbenet really killed herself and the family was so sure that they'd be seen as guilty they threw together a plan to make it look like she was murdered.
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Here are handwriting samples. Just on the face of it whose samples look most like the ransom note?
 

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#130
#130
Also, here is a copy of the full ransom note. If you read it you can see it is not written as a female would write it. Terms like "small foreign faction", "electronic devices", "countermeasures", "proper burial" are not terms Patsy would be familiar with. But, a retired naval officer like John would be. You can see evidence from my earlier post how he like to use percentages in his conversation and used the term "proper burial."
 

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#136
#136
Well, he might have known the Ramseys, and at the time of the murder he'd already been known to have killed 5 hookers.
 
#140
#140
Sandvol said:
Get lost.
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Or you can get over it. All your posts about this are speculative. You don't know what happened; no one does. I'm sure the FBI and various police departments who investigated this have looked into the theories you are stuck on. But perhaps a keyboard crime fighter like yourself knows better than them? Despite what appears to be a rock solidcase you've built(please note the sarcasm), the crime remains unsolved. Carry on with your quest to show VN you are a JBR guru tho. I'm unimpressed.
 
#142
#142
mjw2e said:
Or you can get over it. All your posts about this are speculative. You don't know what happened; no one does. I'm sure the FBI and various police departments who investigated this have looked into the theories you are stuck on. But perhaps a keyboard crime fighter like yourself knows better than them? Despite what appears to be a rock solidcase you've built(please note the sarcasm), the crime remains unsolved. Carry on with your quest to show VN you are a JBR guru tho. I'm unimpressed.
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No, this is one of the problems of this case and the public's analysis of it. When you make statements like an intruder did it unsupported by facts or Burke did it unsupported by facts then those are speculation. When you make inferences based upon the facts and only the facts that is not speculation. Based upon your above statements it doesn't matter to me if you're unimpressed. By the way the FBI didn't investigate the case and neither did various police departments-only the Boulder police department.

P.S.-The lead on-scene detective Linda Arndt wanted to charge John Ramsey.

P.S.P.S.-Also, the killer knows what happened.
 
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#143
#143
Let me see if I can help you understand the difference between inference and speculation. If the four leading pathologists stated that Jon Benet was both chronically and acutely sexually assaulted without reading the autopsy report then that would be speculation. If on the other hand they stated that she was both chronically and acutely assaulted after reading the report and based upon their training and experience then that would be inference. There is a difference.
 
#144
#144
Sandvol said:
Here are handwriting samples. Just on the face of it whose samples look most like the ransom note?
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To my untrained eye the school form on the top and the ransom note look very similar.

Edit: sorry just saw that wasn't a school form but a parade form.
 
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#145
#145
volfan_89 said:
To my untrained eye the school form on the top and the ransom note look very similar.
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Take a look at some of the individual letters like the R's the c's and the y's. And also zooming in helps. Then take a look at the same letters on the other document.
 
#146
#146
One of the points I wanted to make is there is no peer-reviewed science of hand writing analysis. If the FBI had a pen then they could analyze the ink and tell if the pen wrote the note. Or they can match the paper. Handwriting analysis is even less admissible in court than polygraph but on this basis John was ruled out.
 
#147
#147
Sandvol said:
Take a look at some of the individual letters like the R's the c's and the y's. And also zooming in helps. Then take a look at the same letters on the other document.
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On mobile so I can't zoom in. But to me the first document and the note look more similar. In the third document the "a" in Ramsey even though lower case is made like an upper case "a". In the ransom note Ramsey has a lower case "a".

Of course that could be easily changed if trying to make your writing look different.
 
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#149
#149
volfan_89 said:
On mobile so I can't zoom in. But to me the first document and the note look more similar. In the third document the "a" in Ramsey even though lower case is made like an upper case "a". In the ransom note Ramsey has a lower case "a".

Of course that could be easily changed if trying to make your writing look different.
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DocG believes that John first typed the note out on computer and printed in manuscript and then copied it to make it look different than his handwriting. That is why so many of the letters look like manuscript.
 
#150
#150
wildnkrazykat said:
It was the brother.
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If it was the brother then that would imply both John and Patsy were covering. If they were both involved then they would have gotten rid of the body before calling the police. Also, Burke was only nine at the time he couldn't be charged with a crime in Colorado. Why would they stage a sexual assault and strangulation when they could explain it as an accident and get her treated? Remember the blow didn't kill her but the strangulation did.
 
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