Is this the most depressing time in UT history?

#126
#126
VFL-82-JP said:
At the risk of being accused of stalking, heh...

I would love to see any documented evidence that Phil Fulmer ever said "8 wins is enough at TN".

Any quote of him by a reputable source (not some dude on VN.com...because, I mean, you're some dude on VN.com right?) would be fine.

You are more than welcome to whatever opinion you wish to hold about Fulmer. I just think if you're going to throw accusations out there, you should be prepared to back them up.

Thanks.
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"It just depends on whether you want to look at it as the glass being half full or half empty,” Fulmer told the newspaper. “Eight wins in a season is good. It's not great at Tennessee, but it's good. They could end up with nine wins, and that's good. We had the East basically locked up if we beat two teams that we were better than — at least we were at the beginning of the season — but the truth of it is, injuries played a tremendous part in this football season.

From the TFP originally.

Fulmer won't cal Vol's season a failure | Nashville Post

I paraphrased the quote from over a year ago. Hope you can forgive me there Joseph Pulitzer Jr. :)

He also said in an old GoVols article after he got his extension after the 2007 season that 8 wins was enough at TN. I don't intend to pay KNS a dime ever again to try and find it so if you want a link, look it up yourself.

There was nothing remotely enjoyable about the 2008 season. Always found it highly ironic though that Fulmer got a contract that guaranteed an extension every time he won 8 games then couldn't even make it a season under those conditions.

Additionally, Fulmer will automatically receive a one-year extension if the Vols win eight regular-season games, and his contract calls for a $1 million longevity bonus to be paid in December 2012 to reward him for 20 years of service as head coach.

Fulmer gets raise to $2.4 million; Pearl to $1.6 million

This was a free article off KNS.
 
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#127
#127
njvols said:
I think you can like or not like Fulmer in AD spot (I do). But, at this point in time, it's hard to argue that he hasn't brought unity and sense of common direction to what has been an entirely dysfunctional organization, really since Dickey retired.
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I'll agree with this.

At least they are rowing in one direction for the time being unlike what we saw with Bev and John Boy.

Think that once Haslam is out of office, he could make a play for Dipeitro's seat and throw everything in turmoil again though.
 
#129
#129
JonGrudensAgent said:
"It just depends on whether you want to look at it as the glass being half full or half empty,” Fulmer told the newspaper. “Eight wins in a season is good. It's not great at Tennessee, but it's good.

Fulmer won't cal Vol's season a failure | Nashville Post
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Thanks, Jon, that's awesome. You absolutely backed up your assertion.

Well...sort of. Fulmer did say that 8 is good, not great, but good. He said you decide as a Vol fan whether you're going to be an optimist or a pessimist about how that season turned out. And he was showing his optimistic approach.

Got it.

Now, the thing that's missing is him saying it's "enough."

As in, you don't ever have to win more, "eight is enough at Tennessee."

See, I don't think he said that. Well, it's not what I think, it's just a fact. He did not say that. But I also don't think he MEANT that. In context, what it seems he meant is that, we have good years and bad years, and given where we've been recently (he was discussing the 2016 season, so the recently he was looking at was a 5-7, then 7-6, then 9-4 previous record, with another 9-4 possibly to come), given where we've been recently, 8 is good, not great, but good.

In other words, that he saw us as continuing to climb out of the pit of misery in 2016.

Of course, he couldn't know--just like we couldn't--how badly the wheels would fall off in 2017. He, like many of us, may have had concerns about Butch, but he was doing a lot like I do, not talking ill of the sitting head coach, being supportive as long as the guy wore orange.

[keep in mind, Phil wasn't AD in December 2016 -- today, he'd have a very different set of responsibilities for assessing the head coach's performance].

So it's really all about context, and you kind of totally missed the context of his comment about 8 wins.

...

At the end of the day, though, JGA, you brought it. You had facts to back up (more or less) your assertion. My hat's off to you, and I appreciate you bringing it to the conversation.

Go Vols!
 
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#130
#130
Jack Burton said:
We just had our worst season ever.
We just had the worst coaching search ever.
Bama is rolling as usual. UGA has a real coach. UF hired a quality coach. Muschamp owns the Vols. Looks like we’re headed for 3rd or 4th in the East every season.

Has UT football ever been in a more depressing position? I’m almost 40 and have never seen our position in the landscape like this.
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Muschamp owned Butch, but so did sorry a$$ Derek Mason. We just hired a great Coach ourself, who hired an elite staff and won't settle for anything less than perfection. Alabama went through a very similar stretch that we have been in and went through even more HC's than we have during that time. The year they got Saban, they were turned down by more guys than our last 2 HC search's. That included sorry aa$$ Bama Alum Mike Riley and an average at best Rich Rod. Pruitt's resume was much better than Kirby Smart's, who also benefited from a championship roster left by Richt. Dan Mullen has never won a championship of any kind. Only team in the East that's had a higher 5 yr recruiting rankings avg is Ga. It will take a yr or two, but we will be competing for SEC Championship's soon.
 
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#131
#131
Jack Burton said:
I want to be optimistic like many here, but I don’t even see us bowling this season. Unlikely we can close with a decent class after we get mauled all year, too. We desperately need some momentum and it’ll have to start on the recruiting trail.
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There's zero reason not to go to a bowl this season. 6-6 will be the absolute worst case scenario with 7-5 being very probable. 3-1 is the absolute worst and 4-0 being possible in Non Con games. Vandy, UK and Mizzou are another 3 games we have no business losing. So that's 6-1 or 7-0. Ala, GA, Aub are 3 Pretty much guaranteed losses. So 6-4 or 7-3. That leaves Fla( at home) and S.Carol ( at SCe). Pruitt's first SEC and Rivalry home game should be a win...7-4 or 8-3. SCe can go either way but will give SCe the slight edge since it's in SCe. So 7-5 or 8-4 are the most likely results. 6-6 would be the absolute worst case scenario ,with few bounce's going our way during the season. Hell we were 3 plays form being 7-5 last yr under that dumpster fire HC and staff. Top to bottom, this is a whole different level type of staff that has coached at and won at the most elite schools in college football.
 
#132
#132
Jack Burton said:
We just had our worst season ever.
We just had the worst coaching search ever.
Bama is rolling as usual. UGA has a real coach. UF hired a quality coach. Muschamp owns the Vols. Looks like we’re headed for 3rd or 4th in the East every season.

Has UT football ever been in a more depressing position? I’m almost 40 and have never seen our position in the landscape like this.
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I’m thinking the 1943 season was the worst ever. We had no team!
 
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#133
#133
Jack Burton said:
So what did EA think about Vols overall? Let me guess he said, “Pruitt will be successful but it’s going to take some time.” Then he didn’t define “success” or “time”.
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Basically said CJP has to begin with gloom and doom to temper the unrealistic among us, but he[among several others] noted a change in the way football is being coached on the hill. Sounds like we got rid of a poser
 
#135
#135
sunnyvol79 said:
There is no tangible evidence that Pruitt will do good here. I would have rather hired a coach with some previous HC experience such as Mike Bobo over Pruitt who i don’t think will handle the pressure and fans and media very well. I mean we are already witnessing that.
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There's no evidence that he won't, just like there was zero evidence when we hired Fulmer and Ga hired Smart. JaP will have no problem handling pressure, fans and the media. He has not shown anything to make us think otherwise. Yes I know it's Saban but he blows up at the media every week and has called the Ala fanbase out numerous handfuls during his time at Ala. Pruitt has dealt with Pressure all the way back to his HC coaching days so that's will be no concern. Just because a HC has previous HC experience it doesn't make him the better or safer hire. Being a HC at Colo St or someplace similar doesn't prepare a Coach for the pressure of being at an elite college football school. Every successful HC had to start somewhere and were better hires than some HC's with prior experience. Hiring a guy like Mike BoBo would be just as risky as hiring a first time HC. I would take Pruitt's resume and reputation over Mike BoBo or a similar type HC anyday.. BoBo has three 7-6 season's at Colo St and that was him following McElwain who went 8-5 and 10-3 prior to BoBo getting hired.
 
#136
#136
VFL-82-JP said:
Thanks, Jon, that's awesome. You absolutely backed up your assertion.

Well...sort of. Fulmer did say that 8 is good, not great, but good. He said you decide as a Vol fan whether you're going to be an optimist or a pessimist about how that season turned out. And he was showing his optimistic approach.

Got it.

Now, the thing that's missing is him saying it's "enough."

As in, you don't ever have to win more, "eight is enough at Tennessee."

See, I don't think he said that. Well, it's not what I think, it's just a fact. He did not say that. But I also don't think he MEANT that. In context, what it seems he meant is that, we have good years and bad years, and given where we've been recently (he was discussing the 2016 season, so the recently he was looking at was a 5-7, then 7-6, then 9-4 previous record, with another 9-4 possibly to come), given where we've been recently, 8 is good, not great, but good.

In other words, that he saw us as continuing to climb out of the pit of misery in 2016.

Of course, he couldn't know--just like we couldn't--how badly the wheels would fall off in 2017. He, like many of us, may have had concerns about Butch, but he was doing a lot like I do, not talking ill of the sitting head coach, being supportive as long as the guy wore orange.

[keep in mind, Phil wasn't AD in December 2016 -- today, he'd have a very different set of responsibilities for assessing the head coach's performance].

So it's really all about context, and you kind of totally missed the context of his comment about 8 wins.

...

At the end of the day, though, JGA, you brought it. You had facts to back up (more or less) your assertion. My hat's off to you, and I appreciate you bringing it to the conversation.

Go Vols!
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I just caught the tail end of this discussion, and I gotta give the W to JP. Fulmer has never and will never say 8 is enough. Like he said, it's good, not great. Using a little context, I'd settle for a "good" season this year. Wouldn't you?
 
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#137
#137
sunnyvol79 said:
We are so behind the 8 ball with Georgia, Florida and Bama and Auburn and South Carolina at this point it’s not even funny and BTW we play all those teams this year.
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We are not behind the 8ball with Fla or S.Carolina. We will always out recruit SCe and have much better players, resources and facilities. We have higher rated classes on a 5 yr average than Fla and SCe. Even Butch beat Ga a few times with much lesser talent. Ala is Ala and will be till Saban leaves. On the field Auburn shouldn't even be a thought. Yea we have to recruit against them but they will get players no matter what their record is. Not sure you've watched Fla last yr but they looked just as bad as we did.
 
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#138
#138
TJ1985 said:
I just caught the tail end of this discussion, and I gotta give the W to JP. Fulmer has never and will never say 8 is enough. Like he said, it's good, not great. Using a little context, I'd settle for a "good" season this year. Wouldn't you?
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TJ, I think most of us here would be THRILLED with 8 this coming season. Thanks for your comments, man. :hi:


EDIT on second thought: Except that the other side of the "8" coin is 4 losses, and a small group of folks would be screaming bloody murder after each of those...except possibly for a close loss to Bama. But then...yeah...they'd still be complaining about how we blew a chance to win that one. There's just no pleasing some people. :)
 
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#139
#139
VFL-82-JP said:
TJ, I think most of us here would be THRILLED with 8 this coming season. Thanks for your comments, man. :hi:


EDIT on second thought: Except that the other side of the "8" coin is 4 losses, and a small group of folks would be screaming bloody murder after each of those...except possibly for a close loss to Bama. But then...yeah...they'd still be complaining about how we blew a chance to win that one. There's just no pleasing some people. :)
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Good edit. Many fans have a hard time being reasonably disappointed. It's okay to be upset about a loss while simultaneously not claiming everyone sucks and the coaches should be fired.
 
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#140
#140
First, I will say that for every program....the program is the right head coach away from (insert whatever hopes and dreams one has for a program).

But, to say the program had some "bad years" or "all programs go through cycles" or the "program has been down" is understating what has happened.

In the last decade, only a winning record in conference against Kentucky and Vandy. No wins against LSU, Arkansas, Alabama, Auburn, Texas A&M. 4-16 combined against Florida and Georgia.

Since 2008
17-23 in conference home games
9-31 in conference road games

So, I understand why some are afraid it (the program) won't get back up. But, as I said, the right head coach and it's amazing what can happen.
 
#141
#141
99, why don't you just go take a long walk off a short pier.

You're delusional if you think we need your help remembering how our Dark Ages went.

In short, don't be an ass.
 
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#142
#142
Jack Burton said:
Florida owns us even when they have worse talent.

USCe ceiling isn’t far above our floor? You’re still living in the 90s as they had back to back to back seasons with double digit wins and a #1 ranking recently. Some floor for us.
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S.Carolina has benefited from TN being bad lately, Fla being inconsistent and Ga as well. S.Carol will always be behind Ga,TN and Fla when things play out how they should. S.Carol went 9-4 last year and had zero(0-2) Top 25 wins.2016 they were 6-7 (1-4 vs Top 25). 2015 they were 3-9(0-4 vs Top 25).2014 they were 7-6(1-3 vs Top 25).They had a 4 yr run under Spurrier where they went 42-11 (23-10 in SEC, 11-8 vs Top 25. But since then they are 25-26 overall( 12-20 vs SEC & 2-13 vs Top 25. S.car will sneak in a good yr or two then fall back into a 7-8 win ceiling. That 4 yr stretch when they had that run TN was 21-27, Ga 36-18 and Fla 30-21 so they benefited from TN and Fla not being very good.
 
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#143
#143
Jack Burton said:
Fulmer in charge gives me the most hope for the overall health of the program. We might be too far behind for it to make much difference though.
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Football is cyclical. No elite college football program would ever get so far behind that they couldn't catch up. The scholarship limitations guarantees that from ever happening again. If that was the case Alabama would have Never made it back after their horrid decade that included numerous yrs of probation. If there were no scholarship limitations like Bear Bryant had then it Would be possible to never catch up but not in this age. 2-3 yrs tops is all it would take if done right.
 
#144
#144
VFL-82-JP said:
99, why don't you just go take a long walk off a short pier.

You're delusional if you think we need your help remembering how our Dark Ages went.

In short, don't be an ass.
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Ok, well if everyone gets it, I’m sure I won’t be seeing season prediction threads with people chalking up wins against teams like Missouri because Missouri sucks.

I’m sure people will have learned to not take a game for granted and ignore daj’s recruiting ranking statistical analysis that says Tennessee should win 9 games
 
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#145
#145
99gator said:
Ok, we’ll if everyone gets it, I’m sure I won’t be seeing season prediction threads with people chalking up wins against teams like Missouri because Missouri sucks.

I’m sure people will have learned to not take a game for granted and ignore daj’s recruiting ranking statistical analysis that says Tennessee should win 9 games
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You really are a dumbass for being here, spewing this. I mean seriously.
 
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#146
#146
endzone79 said:
For me the most depressing time is any time we lose to Kentucky or Vanderbilt. And if it happens in the same year, well... nothing worse.
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I choose to look at it as something that got cleaned out of the system, and look forward to streaks of 30+ years against each before some idiot AD forgets or never knew Vol history and creates a new slump.
 
#149
#149
VFL-82-JP said:
At the risk of being accused of stalking, heh...

I would love to see any documented evidence that Phil Fulmer ever said "8 wins is enough at TN".

Any quote of him by a reputable source (not some dude on VN.com...because, I mean, you're some dude on VN.com right?) would be fine.

You are more than welcome to whatever opinion you wish to hold about Fulmer. I just think if you're going to throw accusations out there, you should be prepared to back them up.

Thanks.
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I don't think Fulmer said that more so than it was the contract clause that Fulmer would automatically receive a 1 year extension if the Vols won 8 regular season games.
 
#150
#150
i2amavol said:
Yeah, I was very sceptical of the Fulmer hire as AD, but the results speak for themselves. He turned around an absolutely horrible situation.

Time will tell if Pruitt was the right hire, but he got someone that knows a lot about winning in the SEC, and in big-time football. Whether he can do it as the head coach at Tennessee is still in question, but it was a top-notch hire under the circumstances.
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If you've been around long enough, you know that the only choice for an AD is a good football HC. Football is what makes the athletic world go around at most schools, winning at football requires a good coach, and a coach/AD knows what to look for in a HC when the time comes. We just had a streak of three of the other kind of AD - two with significant experience at the position, and you know how that worked out.
 
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