Is there anywhere that we can complain to the NCAA about flopping and be heard?

#51
#51
Mightyvol said:
It!s not. CJH creates mismatches and makes it difficult to communicate thereby stressing the defense. Everything he does is perfectly legal while faking injuries to create an advantage isn’t. It’s the two minute offense played throughout the game. It works and is fun to watch and it appears the players love the aggressive nature of it.
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My thoughts exactly. There is no rule limiting how prepared an offense can be or how fast a coach or players can think.
 
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#52
#52
AdoptedVOL said:
ESPN showed a replay during the game of a Purdue DL walking along just fine, looking to the side online, then just falling to the ground (oh dear!).

Anyone have that video segment clipped they can share?

Not that it will make a difference. Flopping is here to stay and part of the game unfortunately.
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that is just defensive strategy just like the hurry up offense is offensive strategy. Rules allow for both until something changes. Coaches are just using what the rules allow.
 
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#53
#53
LWSVOL said:
that is just defensive strategy just like the hurry up offense is offensive strategy. Rules allow for both until something changes. Coaches are just using what the rules allow.
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You and I are on the same page (maybe). I do find the strategy of the hurry up offense is based on a tactical play design whereas on the defensive side the tactic of flopping is based on a lie. I don’t like lying (in this case It feels to me like cheating).
 
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#54
#54
AdoptedVOL said:
You and I are on the same page (maybe). I do find the strategy of the hurry up offense is based on a tactical play design whereas on the defensive side the tactic of flopping is based on a lie. I don’t like lying (in this case It feels to me like cheating).
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It is cheating and there's an effective solution. Any defensive player that leaves the field because of an "injury" or that requires attention from the trainer/medical staff should sit out that entire possession...not just one or two plays.
 
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#55
#55
If nothing is done about it in the off-season I would get a kick out of seeing us have some fun with in-game protest. Every time a defensive player for our opponent flops and interrupts our tempo, go ahead and have an offensive player flop when everyone lines up again. Heck, do it twice. It’s legal, right? It would only help our defense, who let’s face it are kind of a casualty in our whole “let’s go score in 30 seconds” offensive scheme and have to get back out on the field immediately. And I have this hunch that even if the NCAA isn’t strongly inclined to listen to our complaints, their hand is sort of forced if our games start all taking 4 1/2 - 5 hours. The TV people won’t have that.
 
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#58
#58
I’d like to see a chart that shows the number of times an Ole Miss player went down with an injury for each game this season. I’m sure that number would be higher for their game against UT than any other game by a large margin. Same for the Purdue. If we had the same chart for all of the teams that UT played, it would be proof that teams are flopping instead of using a timeout to break momentum. If a player goes down, they should stay off the field for the remainder of the series/possession as a safety protocol.

Kudos to Saban who actually used a timeout Friday when his team was getting pushed down the field, instead of telling a player to take a knee.
 
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#59
#59
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Then we should be trying to play big boy football and not tempo. We're in a LOS conference. We should play that way.
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I like our up-tempo offense. But, are you saying that because the other team's defense is out of shape and can't keep up, we should play slow ball? The up-tempo offense puts stress on the other team. I like that. They can't get lined up because they are tired. Instead of you wanting us to play BIG BOY ball, why don't you want the other team to get in shape? I don't like the other team dictating to us what kind of offense we should run. If you can't keep up with our offense then you are out of shape. Make no mistake about it. The flops are not injuries. If it were truly leg cramps why does the other team's offense not have issues with leg cramps? Something needs to be done about the flops. But, the only way the SEC or NCAA will address it is if Saban starts complaining about it when he tries to run up-tempo.
 
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#60
#60
Volinnooga said:
I understand that view but can you imagine if fans could lodge complaints? Every week there would be millions of complaints filed. That’s why the complaints come through the schools, not the fans many of whom are irrational viewers. I admit I am a sometimes an irrational viewer and they don’t need to be listening to my rant charges.
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My guess is social media and the press gets noticed more by the NCAA than it’s member institutions complaining
 
#61
#61
VolunteerHillbilly said:
It all goes hand in hand. If we don’t sub thereby allowing them to sub, then they’re gonna flop. Rules are not going to change to help a few undermanned rosters play fast.
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The solution is to only allow the "injured" player to be subbed, no wholesale substitution of the entire front 4. The injured player sits out that possession.
 
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#62
#62
"I say this and I mean it," said Steve Shaw, national officiating coordinator and NCAA secretary-editor of the rules committee. "If you're lying in bed tonight and come up with the perfect solution, call me -- because we're looking for it."
 
#64
#64
mudhen said:
There just HAS to be a means to launch a massed complaint about diving to the NCAA. Or am I just pissing in the wind.
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You might want to turn your back toward the wind, and get done pissing before it shifts.

Hey, if you can get a number for him, call Barack Obama. He is the only politician I
know of who said something sports related, and something got done.
 
#65
#65
AdoptedVOL said:
You and I are on the same page (maybe). I do find the strategy of the hurry up offense is based on a tactical play design whereas on the defensive side the tactic of flopping is based on a lie. I don’t like lying (in this case It feels to me like cheating).
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all kinds of strategies. DBs get coached that if you're beat deep, tackle the WR. 15 yards better than TD..

Rules should change but if they don't, coaches should use what they can.. JMO
 
#66
#66
TheDeeble said:
It concerns me about our offense that it can be so severely affected by flops slowing it down instead of just being a fundamentally sound offense.
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This is just a super awful take. I mean I'd be embarrassed to have said it. This offense is exceptionally fundamental. The players can and do have to execute it perfectly at maximum speed. Get lined up, play called, set, snap off, run the right routes, make the right block, all at warp speed. You have to be amazingly sound with fundamentals to do that. It was sound enough to set the single season scoring record in Vol football history.
 
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#67
#67
VolArmy74 said:
This is just a super awful take. I mean I'd be embarrassed to have said it. This offense is exceptionally fundamental. The players can and do have to execute it perfectly at maximum speed. Get lined up, play called, set, snap off, run the right routes, make the right block, all at warp speed. You have to be amazingly sound with fundamentals to do that. It was sound enough to set the single season scoring record in Vol football history.
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It works because the defense doesn’t have time to adjust and make player changes. Defensive coaches aren’t able to react.

It can be a tremendously fun offense to watch and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that or suggesting it doesn’t take skill for the players to execute it, only that it is severely hampered when slowed down. Why does heupel not use time outs in the final 2 min of a half? It drives fans crazy. I think it’s because his offense doesn’t function nearly as well if play is slowed down.

My comments are a concern over the vulnerability of the pace of the offense, not the players running it.
 
#69
#69
J C Higgins said:
Serious question:

What makes is a rapid tempo gimmicky? All offenses play by the same rules. If you can get it together for the next play faster than the defense can adjust what makes that a gimmick? To me it's intelligence, discipline and readiness.
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I think it has to do with fatigue. I heard Ainge talk about it. On Defense, there is no coasting. You have to be prepared for every play to come your way. On offence, say you are a wide receiver and a run play is called. Your only job is to trot down the field and pull a guy with you so that he would be so far away from the runner that he couldn't make the tackle. Some truth to that I think. And that's the whole flop thing. Let's give are guys a break, let them catch up to the offense and in the meantime, make adjustments, just like a timeout and even better, substitute in some fresh players. By golly, we don't even have to use a timeout even.

If you go back and look at the times flops occurred, the VOLS were ripping down the field like a hot knife through butter. After the flop, lucky to make a first down. It's effective against an offense like Heupel's.
 
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#70
#70
Only way the flopping changes is if it effects tv money by making games drag out forever. Again if I’m Heupel I tell offensive players to start flopping after defensive player has got off the field. Make the game drag out about twice as long and maybe the conference actually gets off their behind and chooses to address it
 
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#73
#73
ptcarter said:
I think it has to do with fatigue. I heard Ainge talk about it. On Defense, there is no coasting. You have to be prepared for every play to come your way. On offence, say you are a wide receiver and a run play is called. Your only job is to trot down the field and pull a guy with you so that he would be so far away from the runner that he couldn't make the tackle. Some truth to that I think. And that's the whole flop thing. Let's give are guys a break, let them catch up to the offense and in the meantime, make adjustments, just like a timeout and even better, substitute in some fresh players. By golly, we don't even have to use a timeout even.

If you go back and look at the times flops occurred, the VOLS were ripping down the field like a hot knife through butter. After the flop, lucky to make a first down. It's effective against an offense like Heupel's.
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Understand and don't disagree with what you're saying but just because a team is running a fast paced offense doesn't make it "gimmicky". It's just taking advantage of the situation; that is, it creates a situation where the defense is off balance or out of place. Nothing wrong with that. The opportunity to play with a fast tempo is available to all teams. The quickest thinking and best prepared will do it better.
 
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#74
#74
J C Higgins said:
Understand and don't disagree with what you're saying but just because a team is running a fast paced offense doesn't make it "gimmicky". It's just taking advantage of the situation; that is, it creates a situation where the defense is off balance. Nothing wrong with that. The opportunity to play with a fast tempo is available to all teams. The quickest thinking and best prepared will do it better.
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I don't disagree. I don't want to be that "Captain Obvious guy", but it's obvious there is a flaw that is being exploited, and it is a subtle flaw. And the solution may not be exactly what is the most logical.

Here's what I mean.. Take Targeting for example. It's taken the NCAA rules guys a long time to refine it. It was really stupid at first. The 15 yard penalty happened even if the targeting was overruled. Think about that a minute. This was batted around by more than one guy and then approved. It took a whole season for someone to say "Hey wait a minute - it wasn't targeting, but we give the penalty anyway??? ".. Then another couple of seasons pass and they delegate to perp to the locker room with much shame. Finally someone says, "Why can't he just sit on the bench and watch the rest of the game?" It's not like he's going to hop up and run back in and ram his head into another guy just because he's not chained to a chair in the locker room.

Having said all that, by faith and confidence of a really thoughtful fair resolution to this little flaw that exists seems unlikely, and if fact could make it worse. I mean if you can kick a guy out of a game for an inadvertent hit because of health and safety, why not make a guy that rolls around on the field in pain sit out for about an equivalent amount of time in the name of health and safety as well.. I say screw this "rest of the drive". Make it be significant. I like the hockey penalty box idea where there is a specific time that has to run off the clock before allowed to reenter. If he's hurt enough to stop play, you are actually doing him a favor giving him time to heal up, right?

Their solution will screw it up worse. The guys who gave you the targeting rule are saying "Hold my beer and watch this".
 
#75
#75
mudhen said:
There just HAS to be a means to launch a massed complaint about diving to the NCAA. Or am I just pissing in the wind.
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The only way something will be done is if in some way it costs some or one of the powerful factions involved some money. But im not sure how it can be twisted around to show that. Unless TV ratings drop or some similar reason... because people start becoming bored with it and games lasting 18 hours.... maybe ??? Who knows.

Oh....or if Nick dosent like it.
 
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