Is the world better off with the nation of Israel?

#105
#105
Well this was really stupid.

I was hoping the conversation would move from was it smart to settle Israel there to the European carve up of the ME after the fall of the Ottomen Empire (check out the book The Peace To End All Peace).

I should have known how big of an emotional response this would get. It was extremely short sided. I think we must do our best to fully support Israel, if you want my opinion on the current state of affairs.
 
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#106
#106
Grand Vol said:
I never realized you wanted to have an open and honest debate about Israel...
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He and huff are racist Pos who want to hide behind "open debate" anything that starts with "should these people exist" should receive only one response.

**** you.

And huff you can meet me and my family anytime and we will share all the pics of the family we lost to the nazis and then you can tell us to grow up.
 
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#107
#107
MaxamusXIII said:
He and huff are racist Pos who want to hide behind "open debate" anything that starts with "should these people exist" should receive only one response.

**** you.

And huff you can meet me and my family anytime and we will share all the pics of the family we lost to the nazis and then you can tell us to grow up.
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I meant the actual state of Israel, not Jewish people
 
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#112
#112
Rasputin_Vol said:
Of course you did not mean the people. Nothing in your post suggested otherwise, nor was there any malicious intent in your question. No need for you to have to add a disclaimer.
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And when you use the term occupied territories I'm sure you mean Texas,new Mexico, and California.
Or were you referring to the Tennessee valley?

Go away troll
 
#115
#115
MaxamusXIII said:
And when you use the term occupied territories I'm sure you mean Texas,new Mexico, and California.
Or were you referring to the Tennessee valley?

Go away troll
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I'm sure Native Americans (what few that are left) would call the USA occupied territory.

In the Middle East, "occupied territory" usually is defined as territory beyond the original 1948 UN boundaries.
 
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#116
#116
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm sure Native Americans (what few that are left) would call the USA occupied territory.

In the Middle East, "occupied territory" usually is defined as territory beyond the original 1948 UN boundaries.
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And why did those boundaries change?
 
#117
#117
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm sure Native Americans (what few that are left) would call the USA occupied territory.

In the Middle East, "occupied territory" usually is defined as territory beyond the original 1948 UN boundaries.
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So for the sake of consistency both Israel and the United States should return those territories? Right?
 
#118
#118
MaxamusXIII said:
And why did those boundaries change?
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Mainly the Six Days Way in 1967, which Israel won on the battlefield. But that isn't even my point of contention with Israel, so why are you asking me this? Asking if Israel should exist is a different question than asking should Israel extend beyond the 1948 boundaries.

I clearly have an issue, again, with Israel's hypocrisy with regards to Iran and Israel's participation in stirring up tensions in the region (Syria and Lebanon, specifically). Also, I don't particularly care for the attacks on people that criticize the actions of Israel and calling them "racists".
 
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#119
#119
MaxamusXIII said:
So for the sake of consistency both Israel and the United States should return those territories? Right?
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Consistency? That suggests that I have made a statement one way or the other with regards to either Israel or the US returning land. Not even one of my talking points, so why even ask?
 
#120
#120
Rasputin_Vol said:
Mainly the Six Days Way in 1967, which Israel won on the battlefield. But that isn't even my point of contention with Israel, so why are you asking me this? Asking if Israel should exist is a different question than asking should Israel extend beyond the 1948 boundaries.

I clearly have an issue, again, with Israel's hypocrisy with regards to Iran and Israel's participation in stirring up tensions in the region (Syria and Lebanon, specifically). Also, I don't particularly care for the attacks on people that criticize the actions of Israel and calling them "racists".
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Ok.
We won't dig into the garbage you've spewed in the past. Let's here you elaborate on this hypocrisy
 
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#121
#121
Clearly you think the United States should open up our nukes to inspections. If I understand your position.
You're saying both Israel and the United States needs to be under the same rules and inspections as Iran. Right?
 
#123
#123
roosterjbh said:
Hey guys, wanted to get away for a sec from all the Trump babble and ask a question that I yet to have a fully formed answer yet.

Is the world better off with Israel existing? It seems that its creation caused even more instability/violence in the area by pushing out the people that already lived in Palestine as well as the increasing the volatility the region already faced from the European carving of the ME after WW1.

I'd love to hear y'all opinion on the issue since I'm still trying to come up with one.
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depends. If Israel the country disappeared tomorrow and the Jews suddenly had to be somewhere else, I would definitely say things would not be better. If this was back in 1948 and we were able to keep the state of Israel from being reformed, it is still incredibly debatable if we would be better off. As far as returning the land to the Palestinians, that's a load of horsespit. The Jews held that area for much longer than they ever did. the only way it would have been better is to go back to the Covenant. For the Jews there is no distinction between their nation and their people. They see it as part of their religious and cultural identity. And they have gone through hell and high water forwards and back to stay there. throughout history there was this same question of the Jews being there, multiple nations conquered them and displaced them but the Jews have remained there.

History is just the story telling of migrations, forced or voluntary, peaceful or invasions. Every country, every people has a history of displacing those there before, taking over and oppressing them that was there before. Its nothing unique to Israel, the US or even Europe. We just don't have the compressed version of history to look at; so what we see now seems so much worse than what was. but really its SSDD.
 
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#124
#124
Septic said:
Interesting perspective, maybe the OP should have asked the question a little more broadly.

Would the world be better off without religion?
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How many wars in the modern era have been started because of Christianity? Hell Buddhism or Hinduism? I see only one culprit in modern times and that's Islam. Not right to lump in peaceful religions with them just because you dislike Christianity.
 
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#125
#125
LouderVol said:
depends. If Israel the country disappeared tomorrow and the Jews suddenly had to be somewhere else, I would definitely say things would not be better. If this was back in 1948 and we were able to keep the state of Israel from being reformed, it is still incredibly debatable if we would be better off. As far as returning the land to the Palestinians, that's a load of horsespit. The Jews held that area for much longer than they ever did. the only way it would have been better is to go back to the Covenant. For the Jews there is no distinction between their nation and their people. They see it as part of their religious and cultural identity. And they have gone through hell and high water forwards and back to stay there. throughout history there was this same question of the Jews being there, multiple nations conquered them and displaced them but the Jews have remained there.

History is just the story telling of migrations, forced or voluntary, peaceful or invasions. Every country, every people has a history of displacing those there before, taking over and oppressing them that was there before. Its nothing unique to Israel, the US or even Europe. We just don't have the compressed version of history to look at; so what we see now seems so much worse than what was. but really its SSDD.
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Appreciate the thought out response! I need to do some more research on the history of the region before I start a poorly worded thread.
 
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