Iran

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

The US knew a land invasion would be needed to get the Japanese to surrender and this would kill thousands more than ONE atomic bomb…. But they chose not to surrender so a second was dropped. This still killed less than a ground assault would have.
This is the point bro … yeah the bombs were big, but they put a screeching halt to the war. They also sent a message …..

I'm not saying it wasn’t sound military strategy. I'm saying it was an evil act. You could argue war is nothing but evil acts. But that doesn't change the fact those were the two greatest single acts of evil in human history regardless of how sound they were from a tactical perspective.

 

[EasternVol]

Sorry. Not trying to be hostile. This **** amps me up.

I guess the question is ask is, if N Korea can build a nuke, what's preventing Iran from doing it?

North Korea has PRC to protect it.

 

[EasternVol]

But China wouldn't allow aggression by a foreign power near their border. No power would try that because of what it would mean.

And diplomacy wouldn't stop North Korea, it won't stop Iran either. A combination of diplomacy and military force might.

If that fails the region, and we are in trouble. The arms race will have begun.

If there's any doubt about that, ask McArthur.

 

[MemphisVol77]

Valid point...also its a certainty that the coming bombing of all of Japan with conventional munitions would have killed FAR more. The people had been lied to for the duration of the war and told there would be unspeakable atrocities done to every man, woman, and child if the Americans defeated them...so they were willing to fight to the last man without surrendering in a conventional munitions war. The shock of nuclear destruction saved likely hundreds of thousands of lives. Maybe millions. The Japanese leaders said this themselves in regards to surrender. It simply wasn't gonna happen.

Absolutely correct. As @NorthDallas40 said, the fire bombing of Tokyo cost Japan more lives and caused more destruction than either nuclear bombing did.
Japanese casualty projections aligned with western projections. It has been well documented that their government was willing to pay that price to remain in power. Japan's leadership was right about one aspect. We would have withdrawn eventually. The withdrawal would have been after 10M+ Japanese and 1M+ American casualties, though.

It wasn't until after Nagasaki & Hiroshima that Hirohito pressured the government to bring about an end to the war. Before anyone thinks too positively about Hirohito, he's on record as admitting he wouldn't have capitulated if it meant being displaced.

2hrs, but a well researched documentary.

 

[EasternVol]

So our Manhattan Project... Did Germany and Japan know about it? (No)

No satellite is gonna show dick about a mine shaft entrance. Hell they could build a mosque and put the entrance there. This ain't rocket science.

Their satellite capabilities were lacking then so they didn't pick up Oak Ridge appearing.
The entrance isn't the key. It's how much spoil material is brought out.

 

[MemphisVol77]

The heck it isn’t. FDR was begging for a reason to enter the war

Top military brass (extending to FDR & his cabinet) certainly knew an attack was imminent. I've seen no proof we had been warned about an attack on Pearl Harbor specifically.

From light reading and documentaries, I've seen about a 50/50 lean over the years questioning whether FDR knew that Pearl Harbor specifically was going to be attacked.

I've admitted FDR played his WW2 hand perfectly, but I'm no fan of FDR. Given the sheer audaciosness of the attack (midway catastrophe for Japan if it goes wrong) and (correct me if I'm wrong) no confirmed leaks about Japan's battle specific plans, I'm not convinced FDR knew.

If I go down that rabbit hole, I'm left questioning the entire history (pacific anyway) of WW2. Does that mean the code breakers warning about Midway is a manufactured narrative....?

 

[EasternVol]

Or they could just be like Qatar, UAE, Jordan, Switzerland, New Zealand, or 97% of the world's nations and just stop causing problems. Iran is one of a few nations that starts crap. If they behaved like a Qatar or Switzerland, they would be fine. Heck, even acting like Turkey would work. You don't see USA, Israel, or anyone having beef with those nations.

Isn’t there another nation in that general area that’s a well known crap starter too? Goose and gander you know.

 

[MemphisVol77]

Guess mainstream history is a foreign concept to you

The author of the book being discussed in your link doesn't agree with you about "MaInsTReaM hIStOrY".

Craig Shirley, author of the just released December 1941, doesn't blame FDR for blowing it,

You quoted from an article about a book, not the actual book the article is discussing, and not the declassified memo the book discusses.
The review you linked does include an actual quote from the declassified memo, though

paying particular attention to the West Coast, the Panama Canal and the Territory of Hawaii."

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/11/29/declassified-memo-hinted-of-1941-hawaii-attack-

 

[rekinhavoc]

US airstrikes leave a mark on Iran’s nuclear sites, Maxar satellite images reveal

Maxar Technologies images showed major damage at Iran’s Fordow, Natanz, and Isfahan nuclear sites after U.S. B-2 bombers launched precision strikes over the weekend.

www.foxnews.com

I don't think anyone really knows the extent of the damage. How does a satellite image accurately assess a bunker buster's effectiveness?

Israel should fly drones over the sites non stop to deter any excavation or repair activity.

 

[EasternVol]

Yeah cause FDR needed to build a bunch of new battleships, airplanes and base facilities along with training 3k new sailors. This is the most absurd BS I believe I have ever heard.

We were already ramping up war material production and had started the draft.

 

[EasternVol]

There is so much unbridled brutality in war. It's insincere to take an event or two and ascribe those as the worst atrocities.

The Japanese were far more brutal and inhumane to the Chinese than the Germans were to the Jews but we rarely ever hear of that.

I don't know. There were far more Chinese on which to practice brutality.

 

[EasternVol]

Yep. Google "the rape of Nanking" as an example. There is an alternate spelling too but this one works. The atrocities of the Japanese in WW2 get zero attention compared to the Germans. Taught nothing about it in school. They absolutely slaughtered the Chinese...the overwhelming majority of which were completely unarmed or had shovels and pitchforks at best. Those unarmed civilians and farmers were slaughtered and tens of thousands of their women were raped until their deaths. Children were not spared either. Then theres the horrible torture "experiments" that they did on captured people...(google "Unit 731" ) like seeing how many organs and which could be removed from living people without anesthetic before they died. Or how and which acids and chemical/biological weapons killed the quickest...again, these horrors were performed on conscious and living people strapped to gurneys. The Japanese did horrible, evil things to mostly civilians in WW2 but that all got somehow swept under the rug because eventually we dropped nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Somehow this made them only victims in history books...at least the ones I read in school.

It wasn't swept under the rug. People are well aware.
One footnote I'll add, told to me by someone who saw it happen, is that they 'd go into a town, assemble the residents, select a dozen or so, behead them in front of the others, and say 'we are in charge here; don't temp us to do this to you'. They did a lot of other vile things too.

 

[EasternVol]

View attachment 750867

Name one thing wrong with this view. I'll wait.

Giant empty head and disproportionate bottom. Homely face from that angle.

 

[Orange_Crush]

NZ's very anti-nuclear so it's a moot point, but them being nuclear armed probably wouldn't be a major concern for PRC. With their population they wouldn't support more than a submarine's payload of warheads.

Agreed. I was rolling with the scenario. As I've heard, China is a bit twisted right now with some of the combined military and base partnerships between Australia and the US. If a western ally in the area got a nuke... :/

 

[tbh]

I'm not saying it wasn’t sound military strategy. I'm saying it was an evil act. You could argue war is nothing but evil acts. But that doesn't change the fact those were the two greatest single acts of evil in human history regardless of how sound they were from a tactical perspective.

Repeating the same nonsense over and over doesn't make it true, but you've proven (repeatedly) that you've either got absolutely no grasp of that concept, or you're willfully ignorant. My guess is the latter.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I'm not saying it wasn’t sound military strategy. I'm saying it was an evil act. You could argue war is nothing but evil acts. But that doesn't change the fact those were the two greatest single acts of evil in human history regardless of how sound they were from a tactical perspective.

You don't understand the scope of evil very well.

An easy one that's worse is the cultural genocide of Native Americans by the US. Not only were thousands and thousands killed, entire cultures were wiped off the map intentionally by reeducation and relocation.

Necessary for America to thrive? Absolutely.
Incalculably intentionally evil? Absolutely.

Ending the lives of several hundred thousand people with bombs is definitely evil but throughout history there are some truly wretched examples that are far worse in terms of actually removing a culture from existence in the world.

While the bombs were certainly horrific, we did not engage in the reeducation, relocation, and obliteration of Japanese culture.

 

[Godfatha]

I'm not saying it wasn’t sound military strategy. I'm saying it was an evil act. You could argue war is nothing but evil acts. But that doesn't change the fact those were the two greatest single acts of evil in human history regardless of how sound they were from a tactical perspective.

I guess the invasion of mainland Japan, which could have been Okinawa x 100, would have been not evil. The bomb saved hundreds of thousands lives.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Iran’s swift response forced enemy to end hostilities, Supreme National Security Council says

TEHRAN - Iran’s Supreme National Security Council (SNSC) issued a statement on Tuesday, declaring that the Islamic Republic’s firm and coordinated military response to the Zionist regime’s recent aggression ultimately forced the enemy—and its regional and Western supporters—to unilaterally halt...

www.tehrantimes.com

 

[Vol8188]

I’m assuming the ceasefire is holding right now?

 

[OHvol40]

Run a campaign, soft coup are ambiguous words.

How about we agree on the terms so far. And if we get to anything that's a judgement call, we'll let the board decide or maybe even better, both donate.

Whatchoo think '40?

I’d say the demographics in here are a little weighted, but cool with me.

 

[Jax_Vol]

I’m assuming the ceasefire is holding right now?

Yes

 

[McDad]

I’d say the demographics in here are a little weighted, but cool with me.

That's true. Perhaps a panel.of 3 folks who are non partisan.

Anywho it's a bet

 

[Vol8188]

Yes

Figured the trolls would be out if it wasn’t. You don’t even need to know the news or the contents of any posts, just see who was posting and you can figure out the rest

 

[Vol737]

My advisor called me today and said my Buc ees stock stock shot up 15%..shooting him another transfer of 50K

Please tell me that ticker symbol is NUGTS and I’m buying a load!

 

[Jax_Vol]

Figured the trolls would be out if it wasn’t. You don’t even need to know the news or the contents of any posts, just see who was posting and you can figure out the rest

You need to take a job in the AI field