Iran

#17,301
#17,301
rikberry31 said:
Have you ever heard of the term "Melting Pot?" I know it is not popular these days and that is a problem. People can have different traditions and belief but as far as citizenship is concerned they have to put that aside and get along. Just like the the people fleeing California and other terrible places and then try to change the good places in the where they came from.
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As I said, it took our ancestors several generations to assimilate yet you're holding others to a different set of guidelines. Why would that be?
 
#17,304
#17,304
rikberry31 said:
Have you ever heard of the term "Melting Pot?" I know it is not popular these days and that is a problem. People can have different traditions and belief but as far as citizenship is concerned they have to put that aside and get along. Just like the the people fleeing California and other terrible places and then try to change the good places in the where they came from.
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I don't think this statement is going to have the impact you expect.

See: hasidism
 
#17,306
#17,306
utvolpj said:
As I said, it took our ancestors several generations to assimilate yet you're holding others to a different set of guidelines. Why would that be?
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Well, it didn't take my ancestors generation to become American. My to Grandfather, who was an immigrant, there was nothing more important than becoming an American. He forbade the speaking of his native tongue in front of his children because he wanted them to speak English only. His two daughters became English teachers, my momma had an master's in English. He used to say, "If you want to be an American you have know two things. English and Baseball."
 
#17,307
#17,307
Smokey123 said:
What’s the correlation to the Hasidics?
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Getting along with the people in their neighborhoods is generally not something they're big on (taking over school boards, diverting funding to their projects, etc. is a big one).

You could say Amish people create huge economic problems for their communities, too (leveraging religious tax breaks in their businesses to undercut existing businesses in areas they move in).

My issue is this guy is speaking specifically and only about Muslims when there are other insular groups that are problems as well.
 
#17,308
#17,308
rikberry31 said:
Well, it didn't take my ancestors generation to become American. My to Grandfather, who was an immigrant, there was nothing more important than becoming an American. He forbade the speaking of his native tongue in front of his children because he wanted them to speak English only. His two daughters became English teachers, my momma had an master's in English. He used to say, "If you want to be an American you have know two things. English and Baseball.
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Well clearly your personal anecdote trumps US history
 
#17,309
#17,309
ButchPlz said:
Getting along with the people in their neighborhoods is generally not something they're big on (taking over school boards, diverting funding to their projects, etc. is a big one).

You could say Amish people create huge economic problems for their communities, too (leveraging religious tax breaks in their businesses to undercut existing businesses in areas they move in).

My issue is this guy is speaking specifically and only about Muslims when there are other insular groups that are problems as well.
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I don't agree with any of them. My Grandfather when people would tell him how good the "old country" was. he would say, "If the old country was so good what the hell are you doing here?" I say the same.
 
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#17,311
#17,311
EasternVol said:
Well the resulting chaos would benefit the instigator of this conflict but the Kurds would likely get slaughtered by the tens of thousands.
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Based on your previous posts I would assume that you are talking about the sitting President as the instigator. EV you seem to be an intelligent person who has let hate skew all reasonable sense of objectivity. The instigator of what is going on over there started long before our current President. You have to truly understand the past in order to understand the present and have some understanding of the near and long term future. The Kurds could be the spark that finishes the job over there. There has been around 250,000 Kurds killed by various factions of the past 20 years. Maybe this time they could get something for the pain and misery.
 
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#17,313
#17,313
CobbVol said:
You do agree that they should assimilate, correct?
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Why? What does assimilate truly mean in this country? I don't understand the constant need to make everyone the same.

Assimilation is going to happen naturally as they get further from their immigrant history. It may not meet the definition you want as culture is constantly changing
 
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#17,314
#17,314
Redleg68 said:
Based on your previous posts I would assume that you are talking about the sitting President as the instigator. EV you seem to be an intelligent person who has let hate skew all reasonable sense of objectivity. The instigator of what is going on over there started long before our current President. You have to truly understand the past in order to understand the present and have some understanding of the near and long term future. The Kurds could be the spark that finishes the job over there. There has been around 250,000 Kurds killed by various factions of the past 20 years. Maybe this time they could get something for the pain and misery.
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The current administration doesn't have the political capital to carry out this war the way we want to, including providing support for the Kurds.

So, understanding the past, they have zero reason to work with us again. We'd be half-assing it and getting them all slaughtered again for nothing.
 
#17,315
#17,315
utvolpj said:
Why? What does assimilate truly mean in this country? I don't understand the constant need to make everyone the same.

Assimilation is going to happen naturally as they get further from their immigrant history. It may not meet the definition you want as culture is constantly changing
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Bunch of Borgs up in this thread.
 
#17,316
#17,316
utvolpj said:
Why? What does assimilate truly mean in this country? I don't understand the constant need to make everyone the same.

Assimilation is going to happen naturally as they get further from their immigrant history. It may not meet the definition you want as culture is constantly changing
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In the context of immigration, I think assimilation is just ensuring that you abandon principles that are fundamentally incompatible in a decent, civilized 1st world country. Abandoning things like viewing women (and in some cases children) as property, killing others you disagree with etc. Things that are unfortunately common occurrences in the 3rd world.
 
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#17,317
#17,317
utvolpj said:
Why? What does assimilate truly mean in this country? I don't understand the constant need to make everyone the same.

Assimilation is going to happen naturally as they get further from their immigrant history. It may not meet the definition you want as culture is constantly changing
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So that is a yes. To clarify, it is not making everyone the same, it is having everyone living in the same country.

Of course the why is it helps with the social cohesion of a country and gives the immigrants more of an opportunity to succeed.
 
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#17,318
#17,318
Matt2496 said:
In the context of immigration, I think assimilation is just ensuring that you abandon principles that are fundamentally incompatible in a decent, civilized 1st world country. Abandoning things like viewing women (and in some cases children) as property, killing others you disagree with etc. Things that are unfortunately common occurrences in the 3rd world.
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Nobody else is talking about that stuff when they say "assimilation."

They mean language, visible aspects of culture, religion, patriotism. That kind of stuff.

We also kill people we disagree with here in the US. That's "common" in the 3rd world? Where?

1000044977.jpg
 
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#17,319
#17,319
ButchPlz said:
Getting along with the people in their neighborhoods is generally not something they're big on (taking over school boards, diverting funding to their projects, etc. is a big one).

You could say Amish people create huge economic problems for their communities, too (leveraging religious tax breaks in their businesses to undercut existing businesses in areas they move in).

My issue is this guy is speaking specifically and only about Muslims when there are other insular groups that are problems as well.
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I see, agreed. I misread his post
 
#17,320
#17,320
n_huffhines said:
Nobody else is talking about that stuff when they say "assimilation."

They mean language, visible aspects of culture, religion, patriotism. That kind of stuff.

View attachment 820810
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Those things I mentioned would definitely fall under social norms and behaviors. Those are the things I really care about, but I'm just speaking for myself.
 
#17,322
#17,322
Matt2496 said:
Those things I mentioned would definitely fall under social norms and behaviors. Those are the things I really care about, but I'm just speaking for myself.
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I'm just saying Americans are largely unaware of gender roles among immigrants. They don't know that Mexico is a little more old fashioned than us in their relationships behind closed doors. They care that they speak Spanish. Hell, the people griping would probably like for us to be more old fashioned.
 
#17,323
#17,323
KB5252 said:
I hate abandoning the Iranian people, but I think this is the best course of action
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It's nice in theory to say that you don't support the war but you hope things work out for the Iranian people to be free of the regime.

In reality, the two cannot be true, and you admit no realistic alternative solution.

Therefore, opposing the war but supporting the people, is no difference from supporting the IRGC’s mass murder of their citizens. your internal beliefs doesn’t exclude you from blame or guilt.
 
#17,324
#17,324
MAD said:
It's nice in theory to say that you don't support the war but you hope things work out for the Iranian people to be free of the regime.

In reality, the two cannot be true, and you admit no realistic alternative solution.

Therefore, opposing the war but supporting the people, is no difference from supporting the IRGC’s mass murder of their citizens. your internal beliefs doesn’t exclude you from blame or guilt.
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Sweet now apply this logic to Gaza and the West Bank.
 
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