Iran

[85SugarVol]

*suspicious*

Haha what?

 

[LouderVol]

Haha what?

germany producing subs...

I know its not new, just saying.

its like all the talk about wanting/expecting Europe to rearm to fight Russia. based on the world wars, asking Europe to get engaged in conflicts is not a good idea.

same with Japan.

 

[MontyPython]

Words matter.

For all you MAGA dingdongs who've always said, "Trump's just being Trump" when he has offended all our allies, you now should realize that words matter. Personal insults, childish social media, absurd vindictive tariffs, threats to our long-time allies... you name it, Donnie loves to spew venom. But words matter... especially from Presidents and Prime Ministers and the like. It's called maintaining basic decorum, and Trump SUCKS at it.

Trump - now begging our allies to help us with Hormuz - is finding that out the hard way. And it appears our allies are telling us "Good luck... but we ain't helping!"

Don't need to look too far to figure out why. Here's a sweet plum Donald dropped not to long ago:

"...And then there are some particularly pertinent — and rather ill-considered, in light of where we are — comments that Trump made in late January about NATO.

“We’ve never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them,” Trump said. “You know, they’ll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan, or this or that. And they did — they stayed a little back, a little off the front lines.”

Even in a vacuum, those comments were highly offensive to allies — especially since many of them suffered significant deaths in Afghanistan. Coalition soldiers did fight on the front lines, and more than 1,000 of them died.

But those comments loom particularly large now. Trump repeatedly said he didn’t need longtime US allies and then turned around less than two months later and demanded help in a war he started. He insulted the sacrifices of allies and then asked them to sacrifice again."

And now Trump is literally DEMANDING that NATO allies come to the rescue and help us with the mess we've created in Iran. What a rube.

Trump is a failed President. He failed badly in his first term and now he's hit the proverbial wall with this objective-devoid war-of-choice v. Iran. He's even alienated many of his pro-isolationist MAGA supporters (at least the ones that have 2 brain cells) with his warmongering. The rest of the MAGA gang... riding the short bus with Donald driving right off the cliff.

November can't come fast enough. It will be an AMAZING day to watch Donnie get his tiny little balls snipped right off of him during the elections. Frankly, I've said this before and I'll say it again, I don't see him actually finishing his complete term. One way or another, it's gonna end early. The manchild is just so self-absorbed and childish that he may just simply quit once he becomes a lame-duck President again. Just my $0.02.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!!!

 

[85SugarVol]

germany producing subs...

I know its not new, just saying.

its like all the talk about wanting/expecting Europe to rearm to fight Russia. based on the world wars, asking Europe to get engaged in conflicts is not a good idea.

same with Japan.

Ah, gotcha. Lol, yea….

Germany is always at the top of the list of - “who could be the next….”
Because, history.

I absolutely want Japan completely armed to the teeth.

You don’t fight a junkyard dog (China) with resolutions. What you do is take the leash off your bigger, meaner dog (Japan).

 

[LouderVol]

Words matter.

For all you MAGA dingdongs who've always said, "Trump's just being Trump" when he has offended all our allies, you now should realize that words matter. Personal insults, childish social media, absurd vindictive tariffs, threats to our long-time allies... you name it, Donnie loves to spew venom. But words matter... especially from Presidents and Prime Ministers and the like. It's called maintaining basic decorum, and Trump SUCKS at it.

Trump - now begging our allies to help us with Hormuz - is finding that out the hard way. And it appears our allies are telling us "Good luck... but we ain't helping!"

Don't need to look too far to figure out why. Here's a sweet plum Donald dropped not to long ago:

"...And then there are some particularly pertinent — and rather ill-considered, in light of where we are — comments that Trump made in late January about NATO.

“We’ve never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them,” Trump said. “You know, they’ll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan, or this or that. And they did — they stayed a little back, a little off the front lines.”

Even in a vacuum, those comments were highly offensive to allies — especially since many of them suffered significant deaths in Afghanistan. Coalition soldiers did fight on the front lines, and more than 1,000 of them died.

But those comments loom particularly large now. Trump repeatedly said he didn’t need longtime US allies and then turned around less than two months later and demanded help in a war he started. He insulted the sacrifices of allies and then asked them to sacrifice again."

Trump is a failed President. He failed badly in his first term and now he's hit the proverbial wall with this objective-devoid war-of-choice v. Iran. He's alienated any of his pro-isolationist MAGA supporters (if they have 2 brain cells) with his warmongering.

November can't come fast enough. It will be an AMAZING day to watch Donnie get his tiny little balls snipped right off of him during the elections. Frankly, I've said this before and I'll say it again, I don't see him actually finishing his complete term. One way or another, it's gonna end early. Just my $0.02.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!!!

don't get me wrong I think Trump is an a-hole.

but why would any nation want to jump into this hornets nest regardless of how friendly they were with the US?

All of the logic of avoiding a forever war. avoiding the cost and loss of life, plus not destabilizing the region...again.

there are a lot of reasons to stay out of this beyond trump being a dick.

 

[Ritzwatch]

checks the timelines, Israel doesn't get to play victim when they started this round.

Gaza "War": Palestine attacks Israel first. Israel attacks back. Palestine doesn't get to cry foul

Iran "war": Israel and the US attack Iran first. Iran attacks back. Israel doesn't get to cry foul.

Agreed. War is hell.

Point is: plenty on here advocated Gaza crying foul after Oct 7. Now that civilians are dying in other places (I don’t think the civilian death in the UAE was Israeli, and the article specifically cited Jordan as crying foul) - crickets.

And I doubt many Jewish Israelis were upset at the Iranian shrapnel falling at the Dome of the Rock, but if the aforesaid VN posters were consistent, one would think they might speak up, if only for the sake of appearances.

 

[MAD]

Iran bombing civilians in cars in the UAE.

Jordan sets Eid al-Fitr holiday from march 20–23

en.royanews.tv

Iranian missile debris striking sites in Jerusalem.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/missile-debris-falls-near-al-aqsa-mosque-and-church-holy-sepulchre.

No outrage on VN.

I guess for some collateral damage is only “unacceptable” and civilian deaths “genocide” when it happens in Gaza.

The useful idiots say we're heading toward fascism.

Then speak out when Jews are attacked.

Speak out when synagogues are targeted.

Speak out when Jewish children are taunted with gas chambers.


If you won't do that...


maybe you never meant it.

 

[LouderVol]

Agreed. War is hell.

Point is: plenty on here advocated Gaza crying foul after Oct 7. Now that civilians are dying in other places (I don’t think the civilian death in the UAE was Israeli, and the article specifically cited Jordan as crying foul) - crickets.

And I doubt many Jewish Israelis were upset at the Iranian shrapnel falling at the Dome of the Rock, but if the aforesaid VN posters were consistent, one would think they might speak up, if only for the sake of appearances.

has the debris falling on Israel, or general missile attacks, resulted in some noticeable percentage of the population dying/being displaced? bit of a scale issue too.

*the bombings in other nations is interesting. because I have also not seen a real link to them and the war. I would say those nations have a great reason for beef with Iran. and as always I wish them best, and don't want to fund any of it*

 

[NashVol11]

 

[Ritzwatch]

The useful idiots say we're heading toward fascism.

Then speak out when Jews are attacked.

Speak out when synagogues are targeted.

Speak out when Jewish children are taunted with gas chambers.


If you won't do that...


maybe you never meant it.

I guess I was just lucky. I grew up in a house that didn’t teach me to hate Jews (or anyone else, for that matter.)

I don’t even think I would have identified anyone as Jewish until I was in college and I had some friends who joined the Jewish fraternity.

It just didn’t matter to me. Still doesn’t. Can’t understand why it matters to others. (This also applies to whatever other category one wants to name.)

 

[CobbVol]

 

[Ritzwatch]

has the debris falling on Israel, or general missile attacks, resulted in some noticeable percentage of the population dying/being displaced? bit of a scale issue too.

*the bombings in other nations is interesting. because I have also not seen a real link to them and the war. I would say those nations have a great reason for beef with Iran. and as always I wish them best, and don't want to fund any of it*

Scale is true, but a large portion of that is due to the success of the middle defenses and attacks on Iranian capabilities. Iran certainly tried to inflict as much damage as they could through missile barrages, especially early on, they just haven’t been successful. I can’t give them a pass for not being as strong as their adversary.

The bombings in other countries is indeed interesting. I think that illustrates the danger of the regime there.

I don’t want to fund this, either, but I don’t know what choice we had. I don’t think this was our war, I think it was Israel’s. I think we were drug into it because we knew what the Iranian response would be once Israel attacked, and that it would be dangerous to not only other countries in the region also not our war), but to the American lives in the region - so we got pinned in to helping Israel or facing devastating attacks on our personal in the ME. Which, at that point, would have made it our war, but at what cost?

I don’t like it, but that is how I think it went down.

 

[volfanhill]

Scale is true, but a large portion of that is due to the success of the middle defenses and attacks on Iranian capabilities. Iran certainly tried to inflict as much damage as they could through missile barrages, especially early on, they just haven’t been successful. I can’t give them a pass for not being as strong as their adversary.

The bombings in other countries is indeed interesting. I think that illustrates the danger of the regime there.

I don’t want to fund this, either, but I don’t know what choice we had. I don’t think this was our war, I think it was Israel’s. I think we were drug into it because we knew what the Iranian response would be once Israel attacked, and that it would be dangerous to not only other countries in the region also not our war), but to the American lives in the region - so we got pinned in to helping Israel or facing devastating attacks on our personal in the ME. Which, at that point, would have made it our war, but at what cost?

I don’t like it, but that is how I think it went down.

We could have easily told Israel to not attack. And if they insisted pull our troops and with them well. Offer to sell them whatever weaponry they want. But I highly doubt Israel goes in if we say we aren't

 

[MAD]

You know this pisses of the Antizionist hate movement.

 

[LouderVol]

Scale is true, but a large portion of that is due to the success of the middle defenses and attacks on Iranian capabilities. Iran certainly tried to inflict as much damage as they could through missile barrages, especially early on, they just haven’t been successful. I can’t give them a pass for not being as strong as their adversary.

The bombings in other countries is indeed interesting. I think that illustrates the danger of the regime there.

I don’t want to fund this, either, but I don’t know what choice we had. I don’t think this was our war, I think it was Israel’s. I think we were drug into it because we knew what the Iranian response would be once Israel attacked, and that it would be dangerous to not only other countries in the region also not our war), but to the American lives in the region - so we got pinned in to helping Israel or facing devastating attacks on our personal in the ME. Which, at that point, would have made it our war, but at what cost?

I don’t like it, but that is how I think it went down.

Israel fighting Iran is a peer conflict. not going to be the level of rage of Israel punching down in Gaza, even if they started it.

as far as the relative success of Iran's attacks it certainly matters to the general public. Does Stonycreek Pennsylvania give you much/any anger? the fact that 99.99% have to google it, myself included, will tell you what you need to know. relative success of the attacks matters a LOT.

 

[Smokey123]

The useful idiots say we're heading toward fascism.

Then speak out when Jews are attacked.

Speak out when synagogues are targeted.

Speak out when Jewish children are taunted with gas chambers.


If you won't do that...


maybe you never meant it.

So much irony coming from you

 

[LouderVol]

We could have easily told Israel to not attack. And if they insisted pull our troops and with them well. Offer to sell them whatever weaponry they want. But I highly doubt Israel goes in if we say we aren't

I don't see how our preemptive attacks thwarted any attacks on US bases/military. if anything it guaranteed it.

had we let Israel attack on its own, and Iran still attacked US assets you would have public opinion behind the war. also pretty good justification for Article 5 and calling in NATO to help with the straight or other assets.

jumping in from day 1 was dumb all around. likely because Trump was deceived by whatever the Israelis used to sell the attack. and not any real concern about US troops in potential danger.

 

[Smokey123]

We could have easily told Israel to not attack. And if they insisted pull our troops and with them well. Offer to sell them whatever weaponry they want. But I highly doubt Israel goes in if we say we aren't

Probably not. The day of the attacks Bibi said he’d been waiting 40 years for this and thanks to america and Trump they were able to finally make it happen

 

[Ritzwatch]

Israel fighting Iran is a peer conflict. not going to be the level of rage of Israel punching down in Gaza, even if they started it.

as far as the relative success of Iran's attacks it certainly matters to the general public. Does Stonycreek Pennsylvania give you much/any anger? the fact that 99.99% have to google it, myself included, will tell you what you need to know. relative success of the attacks matters a LOT.

I know it as Shanksville. And yes, it still makes me angry.

Yes, success of attacks makes a difference on perception of appropriate response. I recognize that, too.

If Israel had attacked without us, and Iran had then had the capacity to launch attacks that killed, say, 100 of our servicemen, would that have made you angry enough for us to join the attack? If 300? 500? 1000?

I think Israel saw their chance and took it. To @volfanhill’s point, I think Israel calculated that this Admin wouldn’t leave them high and dry if they attacked, and they were right.

Whether that was the right decision or not, I don’t know, but it is the one this Admin made. From the lack of protest from the Dems in Congress, I think it would have been the result under any Admin, regardless of who won the last election.

None of this takes from my initial post, the point of which is that this board has plenty of posters who view both the rules of engagement and the catastrophe of casualties differently based on the ethnicity of the respective parties, and I find that disgusting enough to believe it fair game to be called out.

 

[EasternVol]

Iran bombing civilians in cars in the UAE.

Jordan sets Eid al-Fitr holiday from march 20–23

en.royanews.tv

Iranian missile debris striking sites in Jerusalem.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/missile-debris-falls-near-al-aqsa-mosque-and-church-holy-sepulchre.

No outrage on VN.

I guess for some collateral damage is only “unacceptable” and civilian deaths “genocide” when it happens in Gaza.

Ooh, look at your new straw man, did you make it all by yourself?
I don't know who those some would be. Targeting noncombatants isn't acceptable. You can add the West Bank and Lebanan to the places it's recurrent.

 

[BeardedVol]

The useful idiots say we're heading toward fascism.

Then speak out when Jews are attacked.

Speak out when synagogues are targeted.

Speak out when Jewish children are taunted with gas chambers.


If you won't do that...


maybe you never meant it.

Maybe stop turning all your group chats into Nazi echo chambers before you call on others to speak out.

University of Florida moves to deactivate College Republicans after report of antisemitic behavior

The University of Florida is moving to deactivate its College Republicans chapter after reports of antisemitic behavior by some members.

www.wyff4.com

Florida college Republicans group chat reveals racist texts: ‘Avoid the coloreds like the plague’

In leaked chats, students at Florida International University referenced Nazis and made antisemitic and racist remarks

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ritzwatch]

Ooh, look at your new straw man, did you make it all by yourself?

Nope. They showed themselves.

I don't know who those some would be.

Well, then I overestimated you.

Targeting noncombatants isn't acceptable.

Totally agreed.

You can add the West Bank and Lebanan to the places it's recurrent.

I’ve been there (WB). Awful what happens to the people caught in the middle. Violence based on ethnicity is disgusting. Period.