Iran

[InVOLuntary]

The whole thing is moronic. 1000% of it

I'm not a big fan of this war. I think it's a huge gamble but it does have the potential to have a great impact. I don't think this is a war Trump started. It's a war he's trying to finish. The war started in 1979 and has traversed 8 presidents. It was a boiling pot of water and was going to boil over eventually. All these prior presidents kicked this can down thr road.

They were amassing missiles at the rate of 600/month. This doesn't count the thousands of drones. There was a reason for this. The reason appears to be they were amassing this arsenal to be so large that it would be almost impossible to prevent them from going nuclear. Do you really think they wouldn't use it if they had it? They've touted their goal was the destruction of Isreal (and the United States). Some say they weren't close. They told negotiators they already had enough enriched uranium to make 11 warheads. We offered to provide them with nuclear fuel for power generation but they refused.

This was a war that was coming, it's just a matter of when. Do we wait until a a few million are killed from a nuclear strike?

I have several problems with some posters. One, they hold Trump to a different standard than they do their own politicians . They think it's fine when their side does it but if Trump does it, it's suddenly criminal.

Two, some do appear to be cheering every misstep. War is messy, it's not a video game. Bad, wrong things are going to happen. Criticism is one thing, laughing at mishaps is another.

Three, saying this or that is moronic makes me laugh every time I see it. I mean armchair quarterbacking is something we do but pretending you know more about executing a battle than these military commanders is truly moronic. They have years of experience. They've studied and spent countless hours strategic planning. They've got access to Intel that no one here knows a fraction of.

Four, many want the US to fail simply because they hate Trump. They may not openly state it but it's pretty obvious they are just waiting for any bad news, secretly hoping for it so they can criticize Trump or his administration. I would never do that. I don't care who was in charge, I'd never want the US to fail.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of this war, but now that it's started, I hope for complete success. I hope for the absolute minimum of US casualties. I hope for a minimum of innocent lives lost. I hope that this regime is never reconstituted. I hope the Iraniun people can get their country back after a hostile takeover in 1979. Some of that may not be attainable but at the very least I hope we set their ability to terrorize the world back so far that at least we won't have to worry about them for decades.

 

[Vol8188]

When was the last time that they killed an American outside of Iraq? And plotting to kill Trump doesn’t count. His own citizens do that.

Why wouldn’t you count Iran killing Americans in Iraq?

Iran killed 6 Americans in 2024

 

[Carl Pickens]

That's like telling someone to jump off a bridge and sort out what to do when they hit the water if and when it happens.

When I start being responsible for military strategy and planning I’ll let you know.

 

[Vol8188]

Yes, you did - a post on which I hadn't commented, nor had you in the post to which I had replied, and whose introduction by you therefore seemed an act of deflection.

The post in question was part of two post of his both of which I called out as examples of a Democrat being anti American. To call that a deflection while simultaneously claiming to be viewing this from a lens that includes the totality of his posting history is about as disingenuous as humanly possible

Be that as it may, I gave a response that encompasses my view of the particular post of @BeardedVol in question. Reading it in the context of the portion of his posting history with which I'm familiar, I do believe the post of his you cited is in fact "just the post of a man that wants to see his country do better" (even if I myself might express similar concerns differently).

I certainly think it absurd to read what he wrote as "open hatred of America," and I continue to object to the equation of holding our country to a higher standard with "open hatred of America." "Whom the Lord loveth," writes the Apostle, "he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." So too, I believe, must we love that which He has entrusted to our care.

You don’t find it absurd at all to read his post that way. That’s why you specifically stated “even if I myself might express similar concerns differently”. The entire reason you added that line is because you accept that his post could be read that way.

If it were, your clarification here:



would resemble the post it was intended to clarify. Instead, it makes a quite different claim - you've gone from charging Democrats generally with "open hatred of America" for "taking something that’s universal and pretending it’s somehow an American problem" to observing (?) that Democrats act "like they have no clue why some accuse them of being openly anti-American" when they "will consistently speak about how horrific they find America to be."

Once again, this was a 2 part thing. A response to two of his posts. I didn’t randomly add in the “idea that democrats hate America”. 2 posts. If you click on the second you’ll see that’s my response to his comment that you claimed was a deflection to add.

Can’t imagine where the idea that democrats hate America comes from

Not sure how you find that clarification confusing. But it appears to be a you issue.

 

[NashVol11]

"They don’t want anything getting out that says what they’re doing in Iran is raising the threat level at home."

Consider the source, but if true this obsession with optics seems dangerous

Trump blocks FBI terror threat alert linked to Iran war

Top Trump officials ordered it placed on hold over concerns that it could show the domestic risk of the war and further erode public support.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[NorthDallas40]

"They don’t want anything getting out that says what they’re doing in Iran is raising the threat level at home."

Consider the source, but if true this obsession with optics seems dangerous

Trump blocks FBI terror threat alert linked to Iran war

Top Trump officials ordered it placed on hold over concerns that it could show the domestic risk of the war and further erode public support.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It has already occurred. A shooting in Austin, TX at Buford’s bar last Saturday/Sunday was clearly committed by a naturalized citizen motivated by his sympathies for Iran.

 

[NashVol11]

And there was plenty more, he even defended Obama’s Iran deal and last summer was saying it was terrible

Vol8188 used to be a reasonable person, then all of a sudden he was a Trump nut-hugging, war mongering, sad individual that thinks Israel can do no wrong. I unfortunately think it was due to a personal situation in his life that broke him. I hope he can recover.

Seems interesting to be the main person constantly saying Huff is "broken" after doing a complete 180 himself, but I digress

 

[FortSanders]

Here is another perspective on the situation in Iran, from Prof. Ali Ansari, 58, is a historian at Scotland’s University of St. Andrews, where he directs the Institute for Iraniacorruption.

He thinks the IRGC will fight only because the top leaders want to remain in control of 25% of the economy. They are not true believers, but fighting their own people out of corruption.

He says. "that social scientists and international-relations types “have become so wedded to their templates that they can’t see” what has happened inside Iran."

“The vast majority of people are struggling. The political system is hated. The economic system isn’t delivering,” he says in a video interview. Salaries “no longer meet the basic needs of life. There’s an environmental crisis—they’ve drained the water table. And now, they have an international crisis.” That’s putting it mildly.

The regime is not "strong and stable because people are rebelling every few years, and on a scale the regime deems existential.” Regime supporters, whom Mr. Ansari pegs at 10% to 20% of the population, “are convinced they are going to defeat the U.S. in this war.” He pauses: “They are not going to do it.”

[H]aving killed “10,000, 15,000, 20,000 of your own in the random manner that they did—and shooting people in hospital beds—it creates an anger that is difficult to suppress.” Students had resumed protesting before the airstrikes began on Feb. 28."

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/is-iran-on-the-brink-of-another-revolution-463f7be3?mod=mhp

 

[NashVol11]

“The vast majority of people are struggling. The political system is hated. The economic system isn’t delivering,” he says in a video interview. Salaries “no longer meet the basic needs of life. And now, they have an international crisis.” That’s putting it mildly.

Are we still talking about Iran

 

[FortSanders]

"The main problem Mr. Ansari sees with Western analysis: “We fail to give the Iranians agency in what they do.” When Iran’s economy is in shambles, the reflex is to blame U.S. sanctions.

“That doesn’t explain why the Iranians have mismanaged their water. It doesn’t tell you why, well before the real sanctions arrived in 2011-12, they were never able to get any foreign direct investment into the country. Now, why is that?” he asks. “It’s internal. It’s the corruption, the kleptocracy, the short-termism, the opaqueness, the lack of accountability, the uncertainty.” Sanctions didn’t make life easier, he says, but they didn’t befall Iran. They were a consequence of the regime’s behavior."

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/is-iran-on-the-brink-of-another-revolution-463f7be3?mod=mhp

 

[FortSanders]

Are we still talking about Iran

Bring a snarky comment to an intellectual discussion. Trump is on the right path.

 

[sonofUT62]

Why wouldn’t you count Iran killing Americans in Iraq?

Iran killed 6 Americans in 2024

They came to the aid of Shiiite militias waging an insurgency. I certainly mourn the loss of American lives but I don’t see them as a threat to America in general. What they’ve done to their own people as a different story. I’m not aware of the 6 deaths in 2024 but will certainly take your word it. But more people will die of opioid overdoses in East Tennessee than 6.

 

[Vol8188]

They came to the aid of Shiiite militias waging an insurgency.

Are you defending their killing of American soldiers?

I certainly mourn the loss of American lives but I don’t see them as a threat to America in general.

Yet they kill Americans and openly threaten America. Seems hard to argue against.

What they’ve done to their own people as a different story. I’m not aware of the 6 deaths in 2024 but will certainly take your word it. But more people will die of opioid overdoses in East Tennessee than 6.

And that has 0 to do with the topic. Governments can accomplish more than one thing. I would hope all the emphasis Trump has put on the drug war would lower the total deaths (I’ve not seen the data to know and it may be too early to see). But it’s still not relevant. If another country kills Americans we shouldn’t brush it because more people will die from overdoses

 

[NashVol11]

Bring a snarky comment to an intellectual discussion. Trump is on the right path.

Putting "Trump" and "intellectual" even in two different sentences is far too close together. Nothing about this has been well-thought-out

 

[sonofUT62]

Are you defending their killing of American soldiers?


Yet they kill Americans and openly threaten America. Seems hard to argue against.


And that has 0 to do with the topic. Governments can accomplish more than one thing. I would hope all the emphasis Trump has put on the drug war would lower the total deaths (I’ve not seen the data to know and it may be too early to see). But it’s still not relevant. If another country kills Americans we shouldn’t brush it because more people will die from overdoses

Again I mourn the loss of American soldiers. My friend died in Afghanistan the year before and it was devastating. But the US FA in the Middle East and they found out. I don’t blame the government of Iran for what happened in Iraq. I blame them for a dozen other things but again I struggle to see where they pose an imminent danger to America.

 

[MontyPython]

I'm not a big fan of this war. I think it's a huge gamble but it does have the potential to have a great impact. I don't think this is a war Trump started. It's a war he's trying to finish. The war started in 1979 and has traversed 8 presidents. It was a boiling pot of water and was going to boil over eventually. All these prior presidents kicked this can down thr road.

They were amassing missiles at the rate of 600/month. This doesn't count the thousands of drones. There was a reason for this. The reason appears to be they were amassing this arsenal to be so large that it would be almost impossible to prevent them from going nuclear. Do you really think they wouldn't use it if they had it? They've touted their goal was the destruction of Isreal (and the United States). Some say they weren't close. They told negotiators they already had enough enriched uranium to make 11 warheads. We offered to provide them with nuclear fuel for power generation but they refused.

This was a war that was coming, it's just a matter of when. Do we wait until a a few million are killed from a nuclear strike?

I have several problems with some posters. One, they hold Trump to a different standard than they do their own politicians . They think it's fine when their side does it but if Trump does it, it's suddenly criminal.

Two, some do appear to be cheering every misstep. War is messy, it's not a video game. Bad, wrong things are going to happen. Criticism is one thing, laughing at mishaps is another.

Three, saying this or that is moronic makes me laugh every time I see it. I mean armchair quarterbacking is something we do but pretending you know more about executing a battle than these military commanders is truly moronic. They have years of experience. They've studied and spent countless hours strategic planning. They've got access to Intel that no one here knows a fraction of.

Four, many want the US to fail simply because they hate Trump. They may not openly state it but it's pretty obvious they are just waiting for any bad news, secretly hoping for it so they can criticize Trump or his administration. I would never do that. I don't care who was in charge, I'd never want the US to fail.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of this war, but now that it's started, I hope for complete success. I hope for the absolute minimum of US casualties. I hope for a minimum of innocent lives lost. I hope that this regime is never reconstituted. I hope the Iraniun people can get their country back after a hostile takeover in 1979. Some of that may not be attainable but at the very least I hope we set their ability to terrorize the world back so far that at least we won't have to worry about them for decades.

Your post begs several questions:

(1) Iran has no missiles capable of hitting the US. Iran has no nuclear weapons. In contrast, North Korea has missiles that can hit the US and has nuclear weapons. It has also threatened the US with pre-emptive nuclear strikes.

If you believe Iran must be attacked to prevent them from attacking us simply because they don't like us and are a potential threat, do you similarly believe we should attack Korea? Which one is actually the greater threat?

(2) All those prior Presidents that kicked the can down the road... could it be possible that they did so for good reason? Is it possible that each ultimately recognized that attacking Iran was ultimately a bad idea that would provide no long term benefits?

Could it be that those of us who criticize Trump do so, at least in part, because Trump has offered no plan as to what his goals are or an exit strategy?

(3) How does this war end in our favor? Regime change? Nuclear program set back a few years?

(4) How far are you wanting the US to go to achieve these goals? Ready to send US ground troops into Iran? If no, can the US still achieve such goals?

 

[NashVol11]

 

[NashVol11]

 

[Vol8188]

Again I mourn the loss of American soldiers. My friend died in Afghanistan the year before and it was devastating.

You say that

But the US FA in the Middle East and they found out. I don’t blame the government of Iran for what happened in Iraq.

But then immediately turn around and openly defend Iran

I blame them for a dozen other things but again I struggle to see where they pose an imminent danger to America.

They don’t now.

 

[MontyPython]

Bring a snarky comment to an intellectual discussion. Trump is on the right path.

What is at the end of this path?

 

[Orangeslice13]

That would kill a whole lot of Iranians not affiliated with the regime. Oh yeah, forgot, IDF tactics.

Context rarely matters to you does it.
Go back and reread and see if you can figure out what was said and why Monty …..who definitely isn’t in favor of this war and neither am I…..liked the post.

Not everything has to be about hating Jews and me for being Jewish. You don’t have to live in hate

 

[sonofUT62]

You say that



But then immediately turn around and openly defend Iran


They don’t now.

Yes. I do mourn the loss of life and also don’t blame the government of Iran. Anything else I can answer for you?