Iran nuclear program. It is a lie

#151
#151
Squints said:
None.

Scrap the deal, there’s nothing to inspect.
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At least you are honest. That is one way to go.

It seems, however, to make war with Iran inevitable. so there's that.


hog88 said:
The protocol is incredibly weak. Iran basically controls where and when inspections can take place and can delay an inspection for almost a month. A lot of stuff can be hidden in a month.



How Will Inspections Work in Iran under the Nuclear Deal? – Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control
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That's true. How would you get Iran to agree to something different?

Trump just keeps saying Obama made the deal, and that its the worst deal ever. But no alternative is ever discussed. Not even generally.
 
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#152
#152
Septic said:
Wasn't that NATO?

I thought we were tired of footing the bills for other countries peacekeeping?
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No, the US and Russia signed a treaty with Ukraine to protect its borders as they existed if all nukes were removed.

sure we are tired of it but does that justify being the bad partner? especially with Russia as enemy number 1?
 
#153
#153
Iranians have been out enemies shouting "death to America" for decades. Screw em, we'll never sell them anything again and we'll never buy anything from them again. If our allies try to deal with them we'll treat them the same way.

We have a lot of muscle and influence, it's about time we go back to using it.
 
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#154
#154
OuterBanksVol said:
So close minded and unrealistic. We live in a shrinking world not Fortress America. Protectionist, self absorbed policies are a fools errand.
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Should we be entering into deals that may benefit the rest of the world while doing little to nothing for America? At what point is it okay for us to put our country's rights and needs above the rights and needs of other countries. Will those same countries enter into deals that benefit the U.S. while doing little to nothing for themselves? I'm of the opinion we shouldn't be the world's police force, and we definitely shouldn't be the world's patsies. Any deals we make should at the very least benefit us as much as it does the others involved. If it doesn't, it's a bad deal.
 
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#155
#155
lawgator1 said:
At least you are honest. That is one way to go.

It seems, however, to make war with Iran inevitable. so there's that.





That's true. How would you get Iran to agree to something different?

Trump just keeps saying Obama made the deal, and that its the worst deal ever. But no alternative is ever discussed. Not even generally.
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What's the use of a deal that get's you nothing and gives them cover to proceed with their quest for a nuclear weapon? Scrap it and put the sanctions back in place until they are ready to really make a deal, a deal with some teeth.
 
#156
#156
lawgator1 said:
At least you are honest. That is one way to go.

It seems, however, to make war with Iran inevitable. so there's that.





That's true. How would you get Iran to agree to something different?

Trump just keeps saying Obama made the deal, and that its the worst deal ever. But no alternative is ever discussed. Not even generally.
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LG, if you can't get Iran to agree to more favorable terms, why make the deal at all? Is any deal really better than no deal? I just don't understand making a deal simply for the sake of saying we made a deal. It's a false accomplishment.
 
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#157
#157
OuterBanksVol said:
OK pro-Trump fans, please read this and tell me where it's wrong.

NAFTA, DACA, Paris, Pacific Trade Agreement, health care, and now Iran... all effectively destroyed. Where's the plan to replace these?

Trumps MO is to blow up everything Obama did, but for what? If he has a vision of needed changes and new accords, where is it?

This is not leadership. This is abuse of power and taking action for the sake solely of taking action.

Opinion | Where’s That Better Iran Deal, Mr. Trump? - The New York Times
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NAFTA negotiation is still on going.

DACA was pushed by Trump in the budget battle and the democrats didn't bite.

The Paris accords are a bad deal all around. the countries in it aren't following their own words. It was good leadership to get us out of that. think Wilson keeping us out of the League of Nations.

Pacific Trade deal, pretty sure we were invited back. but not really sure. again if its a bad deal for us I don't see the leadership in accepting it.

health care loss is fine. that was created to fail, removing some of the most oppressive pieces of it seems like a good thing. it wasn't perfect and there were many who still weren't employed under it.

Iran deal was a paper tiger. it was words with no teeth. we got nothing with that deal. Nothing. no loss pulling out of it. thankfully, for you, we weren't the only ones involved. Iran is still responsible to the rest of the signers.
 
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#158
#158
hog88 said:
What's the use of a deal that get's you nothing and gives them cover to proceed with their quest for a nuclear weapon? Scrap it and put the sanctions back in place until they are ready to really make a deal, a deal with some teeth.
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Weezer said:
LG, if you can't get Iran to agree to more favorable terms, why make the deal at all? Is any deal really better than no deal? I just don't understand making a deal simply for the sake of saying we made a deal. It's a false accomplishment.
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Or they just start to develop nukes and Netanyahu bombs them. That'd be fun.

I get the criticisms of the deal, it was not perfect. No one said it was. But it was better than nothing, and nothing = war.

You guys seems to think that putting sanctions back in placed (evidently unilaterally by the way) will get Iran back to the table to make a better deal. The consensus internationally seems to be that this is not what is going to happen.

So I don't know. Its not impossible that Trump and Bolton types are right and the rest of the world is wrong. If I'm a betting man, though, I'm not putting my money on that.
 
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#159
#159
evillawyer said:
No dimwit. If the issue is "does Trump honor his commitments?," what's relevant is simply whether Trump does or does not honor his commitments. Its completely irrelevant whether Clinton or some other Democrat honors his commitments.

I constantly see this "but what about X" crap on here whenever a genuine issue is raised. It does nothing to advance the argument. Whataboutism is a form of deflection; refusing to take the whataboutism bait is not deflection.
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Dimwit? I didn't know we were at the point of affectionate nicknames.

The point you seem to be missing is this only becomes an issue for you where Trump is concerned. You don't seem to hold Democrats to the same standard, so it makes it extremely difficult to give credence to your arguments. I completely understand you have a problem with Trump, but to say your problem has something to do with him honoring commitments? It makes zero sense since you apparently do not object to Democrats engaging in the same behavior. A little consistency would do wonders for you.
 
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#160
#160
lawgator1 said:
Or they just start to develop nukes and Netanyahu bombs them. That'd be fun.

I get the criticisms of the deal, it was not perfect. No one said it was. But it was better than nothing, and nothing = war.

You guys seems to think that putting sanctions back in placed (evidently unilaterally by the way) will get Iran back to the table to make a better deal. The consensus internationally seems to be that this is not what is going to happen.

So I don't know. Its not impossible that Trump and Bolton types are right and the rest of the world is wrong. If I'm a betting man, though, I'm not putting my money on that.
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Israel and Iran are not going to war. All this deal ensured was that Iran did develop a weapon.
 
#161
#161
lawgator1 said:
Or they just start to develop nukes and Netanyahu bombs them. That'd be fun.

I get the criticisms of the deal, it was not perfect. No one said it was. But it was better than nothing, and nothing = war.

You guys seems to think that putting sanctions back in placed (evidently unilaterally by the way) will get Iran back to the table to make a better deal. The consensus internationally seems to be that this is not what is going to happen.

So I don't know. Its not impossible that Trump and Bolton types are right and the rest of the world is wrong. If I'm a betting man, though, I'm not putting my money on that.
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I'm not convinced Iran has ever shut down their nuclear program. History certainly doesn't support them being truthful. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it attractive. Unless of course you're into that kind of thing. I'm not judging.
 
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#165
#165
lawgator1 said:
Your post says absolutely nothing. You are just regurgitating the same tired Fox talking points since the deal was contemplated.

Be specific. What specific inspections do you want that are not taking place and why. And then explain how you will get the agreed to by the Iranians.
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Stop being a jackass, 'Fox talking points', it get old LG...the agreement as it stands now, amounts to little more than a diplomatic speed bump that will delay, but not permanently halt, Iran’s drive for a nuclear weapons capability. But hey, let's ignore all that for the moment.

To your point...obviously, the major problem is verification of Iranian compliance.

The Obama administration’s initial insistence on “anytime/anywhere” inspections was downgraded to “sometimes/some places.”

If I'm correct, Iran has up to 14 days to weigh the requests of IAEA inspectors. If it decides to object, its objections would be relayed to an arbitration committee that would have 7 days to rule. If it rules against Iran, Tehran would have another 3 days to arrange an inspection. I believe that's correct. That said...

This gives Iran up to 24 days to move, hide or destroy materials sought by inspectors. This is far from a foolproof system, particularly in light of Iran’s long history of cheating.

From my perspective, Iran’s rhetoric & aggressive regional actions were the BACKGROUND to a flawed deal. The APPEARANCE of Tehran’s compliance contradicted its HOSTILE policies.
 
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#167
#167
Theshag said:
It looks like John Bolton is getting himself another war. I hope none of you have kids in the military.
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My nephew is being deployed to Arifjan Army base in Kuwait in 2 weeks, about 45 miles from the Iranian border. What terrible timing.
 
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#169
#169
TennTom said:
My nephew is being deployed to Arifjan Army base in Kuwait in 2 weeks, about 45 miles from the Iranian border. What terrible timing.
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I would very much guess that he doesn't have the same attitude about it that you do.
 
#170
#170
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#172
#172
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#173
#173
lawgator1 said:
Your post says absolutely nothing. You are just regurgitating the same tired Fox talking points since the deal was contemplated.

Be specific. What specific inspections do you want that are not taking place and why. And then explain how you will get the agreed to by the Iranians.
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I ask the same of you as you have him. Explain what specifically is in the deal that makes you believe that it is worth keeping and try not to use Msm talking points.
 
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#174
#174
T-TownVol said:
I would very much guess that he doesn't have the same attitude about it that you do.
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He's aware of the associated risks and of having pro-Israeli war hawks becoming predominant in Trump's inner circle.
 
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