Interesting film analysis - Kurt Warner on Hendon Hooker

[HiltonHeadVol]

Kurt Warner did a film study on Hendon about a day ago and he made a few points I want to mention:
(KW chose the Ga game from this past season since it was our most challenging defense, and he prefers to watch an entire game rather than simply break down highlights only)
1). To him it was difficult to analyze HH because of our offense, but he strongly implied that HH tended to "latch on" to a receiver either immediately after the snap or even before. Tended to, not always of course. He also pointedly criticized our "one sided game" where the two off-side receivers simply "jog 5 yards" and quit running any route. Now this didn't happen the entire game, but it happened quite often. And this prevents the QB from reading the "big picture" to find openings that are there almost every play......even against an historically great defense. Mostly it limits Warner from assessing HH's read-ability of the developing play and so KW cannot assess Hendon's ability in that area easily.
I have said this before - I cannot stand this habit in our receivers. We have depth in the WR room.....why not everyone run your route? What happens when the QB's pre-determined choice is covered, and he needs a back up option? In fact KW showed exactly this result where the R side was covered and H had to scramble back to his Left and the receivers on that side acted lost.
2). KW suggested H had a tendency (in this game at least) to panic a bit early and by-pass the opportunity to read the defense at snap and opt for the easier check-down throw. In fairness, Hendon completed many of these balls to his pre-ordained choice, but Warner was simply discussing how a college qb can elevate himself on these opportunities.
3). KW implied that H does not read the defense in general and has a tendency to commit to a WR before giving the play a chance to develop. In other words, Warner asks the question...."can HH develop the ability to do this more often at the next level? It may be a fair question.

It must be said that this was H's poorest game probably, and that he WAS IN FACT playing a really gifted defense. I would think one needs to be more complete in film analysis over a broader context to fairly judge. However, the sloppy "jog 5 yards" irritates me to no end. Its against the #1 team in the country in their house.....can we not fully run the routes please, at least for this opponent?

Another point I noticed.....remarkable how on nearly EVERY play, Georgia DB's were grabbing our receivers with one and sometime two hands when they made their cut in the route. Disgusting and allowed to happen all day long by refs.

A bigger question is this......I'm a bit concerned that Heupel's offense will continue to get labelled as gimmicky or nutty and the perception begins to grow that this offense will penalize a promising qb from developing to his maximum. I'm not saying that is true, but am concerned that someone such as Kurt Warner who comes across as fair begins to modestly suggest the above then it can harm us in the long run of recruiting. Listen, Coach JH almost has NEVER had a mediocre qb run his system, and so credit has to go to him for developing a platform where even average qb's can thrive.....but to climb to the top consistently, do we need to prove a qb can develop to an elite level while he is here? Obviously, Georgia won with a "game manager" talent in Stetson, so it can be done.....but to do so means you surround that game manager with elite talent 2 and 3 deep. Just a question I'm asking.
KW's breakdown on YTube: "Hooker | Part 2 of 2 | College QB Pre-Draft Preview – Kurt Warner Game Tape Breakdown"

 

[Vol865]

The WR Hendon always latched onto was Tillman. Tillman came back against UGA. We don't always have 2 Wrs not running routes but it's to mainly keep them fresh and maybe they aren't needed on that play. Don't 100% understand every detail of the system.

 

[Golfprovol]

KW does not know how the system works. There was a breakdown video on here a while ago that did a great job explaining it. He "latches" onto a receiver because the play is designed specifically for that receiver, the others dont run routes to keep space clear and allow the others to make the reads. The plays allow the target receiver read the defense and adjust routes and HH had to read out receiver to know where to throw it.

I will see if I can located that video.

 

[OffTackleVol]

Kurt Warner did a film study on Hendon about a day ago and he made a few points I want to mention:
(KW chose the Ga game from this past season since it was our most challenging defense, and he prefers to watch an entire game rather than simply break down highlights only)
1). To him it was difficult to analyze HH because of our offense, but he strongly implied that HH tended to "latch on" to a receiver either immediately after the snap or even before. Tended to, not always of course. He also pointedly criticized our "one sided game" where the two off-side receivers simply "jog 5 yards" and quit running any route. Now this didn't happen the entire game, but it happened quite often. And this prevents the QB from reading the "big picture" to find openings that are there almost every play......even against an historically great defense. Mostly it limits Warner from assessing HH's read-ability of the developing play and so KW cannot assess Hendon's ability in that area easily.
I have said this before - I cannot stand this habit in our receivers. We have depth in the WR room.....why not everyone run your route? What happens when the QB's pre-determined choice is covered, and he needs a back up option? In fact KW showed exactly this result where the R side was covered and H had to scramble back to his Left and the receivers on that side acted lost.
2). KW suggested H had a tendency (in this game at least) to panic a bit early and by-pass the opportunity to read the defense at snap and opt for the easier check-down throw. In fairness, Hendon completed many of these balls to his pre-ordained choice, but Warner was simply discussing how a college qb can elevate himself on these opportunities.
3). KW implied that H does not read the defense in general and has a tendency to commit to a WR before giving the play a chance to develop. In other words, Warner asks the question...."can HH develop the ability to do this more often at the next level? It may be a fair question.

It must be said that this was H's poorest game probably, and that he WAS IN FACT playing a really gifted defense. I would think one needs to be more complete in film analysis over a broader context to fairly judge. However, the sloppy "jog 5 yards" irritates me to no end. Its against the #1 team in the country in their house.....can we not fully run the routes please, at least for this opponent?

Another point I noticed.....remarkable how on nearly EVERY play, Georgia DB's were grabbing our receivers with one and sometime two hands when they made their cut in the route. Disgusting and allowed to happen all day long by refs.

A bigger question is this......I'm a bit concerned that Heupel's offense will continue to get labelled as gimmicky or nutty and the perception begins to grow that this offense will penalize a promising qb from developing to his maximum. I'm not saying that is true, but am concerned that someone such as Kurt Warner who comes across as fair begins to modestly suggest the above then it can harm us in the long run of recruiting. Listen, Coach JH almost has NEVER had a mediocre qb run his system, and so credit has to go to him for developing a platform where even average qb's can thrive.....but to climb to the top consistently, do we need to prove a qb can develop to an elite level while he is here? Obviously, Georgia won with a "game manager" talent in Stetson, so it can be done.....but to do so means you surround that game manager with elite talent 2 and 3 deep. Just a question I'm asking.
KW's breakdown on YTube: "Hooker | Part 2 of 2 | College QB Pre-Draft Preview – Kurt Warner Game Tape Breakdown"

I think the beauty of our offense, is that before the snap, half the field has been eliminated if it's a pass play. To me, that would make reading the correct receiver to throw to easier and more efficient. I don't remember too many times that HH threw to a receiver that was covered by more than one db. Hell, many times there was no db in the picture. Pre snap read is an important part of our offense, IMO.

 

[GAVol]

It’s always funny to me when an offense gets referred to as gimmicky. At different times, the West Coast, Run and Shoot, Fun and Gun, Spread Option and Air Raid were “gimmicks”. . . now you can see elements of them all being run on Sundays.

 

[give_him 6]

@HiltonHeadVol

This is a great point and great summary of Kurt's breakdown on Hendon Hooker. I will mention that Patrick Mahomes (no I am not comparing Hooker to Mahomes) admitted in 2020 that in his first season, he didn't know how to read the defense.

I really hope that Hooker goes to a team with a strong offensive staff that can teach and develop this.

Chiefs QB Mahomes: ‘I didn’t learn to read defenses until last year’ - Arrowhead Pride

 

[GAVol]

I think the beauty of our offense, is that before the snap, half the field has been eliminated if it's a pass play. To me, that would make reading the correct receiver to throw to easier and more efficient. I don't remember too many times that HH threw to a receiver that was covered by more than one db. Hell, many times there was no db in the picture. Pre snap read is an important part of our offense, IMO.

A lot of times, the QB has no idea where he’s going with the ball or even what route is happening until he sees how the DBs react to the WR release and reveal their leverage. I almost think the scheme hurts Hyatt’s draft stock more than Hooker’s. Hooker still had to make reads, Hyatt made a living off bad DB reactions to switch releases and eye candy and just hitting the jets.

 

[Vol8188]

The issue isn't that Hooker "latches onto a receive" but rather it's the design of our offense. Don't get me wrong, I love our offense, but "latching onto a receiver" is the design of the offense. This isn't the more well known West Coast offense where you have your pre-snap, 1, 2, 3 kinda read. Instead of the QB reading the defense and putting the ball into the open WR, the WR reads the defense and runs to the open area while the rest of the WR's create space for him.

It's been insanely effective and I wouldn't change a thing, but it does make it difficult to project our QBs to the next level.

On one of the PFF podcasts yesterday they stated that Hooker had throw to his 1st read on all but 15 plays over the past 2 seasons. That's not Hooker, that's design.

 

[superdave1984]

The speed at which our offense operates does not allow for multiple reads. If the primary is not there, the checkdown happens and that is it. This all happens in 2 seconds. Hooker processes things quickly, but the offense is designed to get the ball out extremely fast and not stand there and let things develop or over develop.

 

[knoxvol52]

Mel Kiper said Hooker 5th best QB on the board and he has done this a lot longer than Warner. Warner played in a damn gimmick offense with the St Louis Rams so he shouldn't throw stones

 

[Vol8188]

The speed at which our offense operates does not allow for multiple reads. If the primary is not there, the checkdown happens and that is it. This all happens in 2 seconds. Hooker processes things quickly, but the offense is designed to get the ball out extremely fast and not stand there and let things develop or over develop.

That has nothing to do with the speed our offense operates at. Plenty of air raid offenses go fast. Going fast is more about what happens after the play rather than during the play

Our offense gets the ball out extremely slow

 

[GAVol]

That has nothing to do with the speed out offense operates at. Plenty of air raid offenses go fast. Going fast is more about what happens after the play rather than during the play

Our offense gets the ball out extremely slow

I agree. Not a lot of quick slants and speed outs going on. Only thing that comes out fast are the smoke screens.

 

[Vol8188]

I agree. Not a lot of quick slants and speed outs going on. Only thing that comes out fast are the smoke screens.

Yep. What I have noticed though is we do seem to run more quick stuff on 3rd and medium. Like a slant/shoot or all hitches concept. Our 3rd down offense seems to be a very different package than our base stuff.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Seems to me this was a wasted effort on Kurt Warner's part.

Comments like "latch onto a receiver" and "one sided game" reveal a surprising lack of comprehension of the system Hendon was driving.

If Warner wants to evaluate a college QB, he ought to first learn and understand the offense in which the QB is operating.

I'm not saying Warner needs to be an expert on every type of offense being played in the college game. Only those played by the QBs he chooses to evaluate.

Do better, Kurt. Or don't do at all. Either way is fine.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Disclaimer: I freely admit, I'm basically a know nothing about the offense, or reading the defense. So this is just the opinion of a Lasko’s Wind Curve.

My focus is on Vol 865's suggestion that the WRs not running routes is to keep them fresh. Could be, what do I know? Actually I've already told you that. However, I think this might underscore an idea I proffered in an earlier post on VN. We have an embarrassing wealth of really good WRs. I think the Heup should take KW's comments to heart. And every so often, have three WRs ready to sprint off the field, while another three sprint on the field, assume their positions, already knowing what pass play will be called, and GO! Don't even bother to get into the huddle, just line up ready. Maybe call it the hair trigger maneuver. Practice it until you got it down perfectly. And, of course, have all the WRs run routes. Constant fresh legs would run a defense ragged, resulting in half a hundred point games or maybe even a full hundred point games. Now, on the other hand, I also freely admit, the adage of, if it ain't broke don't fix it is something not to be ignored. Heup 'em, Josh, baby!

 

[Vol8188]

Disclaimer: I freely admit, I'm basically a know nothing about the offense, or reading the defense. So this is just the opinion of a Lasko’s Wind Curve.

My focus is on Vol 865's suggestion that the WRs not running routes is to keep them fresh. Could be, what do I know? Actually I've already told you that. However, I think this might underscore an idea I proffered in an earlier post on VN. We have an embarrassing wealth of really good WRs. I think the Heup should take KW's comments to heart. And every so often, have three WRs ready to sprint off the field, while another three sprint on the field, assume their positions, already knowing what pass play will be called, and GO! Don't even bother to get into the huddle, just line up ready. Maybe call it the hair trigger maneuver. Practice it until you got it down perfectly. And, of course, have all the WRs run routes. Constant fresh legs would run a defense ragged, resulting in half a hundred point games or maybe even a full hundred point games. Now, on the other hand, I also freely admit, the adage of, if it ain't broke don't fix it is something not to be ignored. Heup 'em, Josh, baby!

If you substitute, the official will not blow the whistle until the defense has had time to substitute. That's why we don't do that.

 

[HiltonHeadVol]

KW does not know how the system works. There was a breakdown video on here a while ago that did a great job explaining it. He "latches" onto a receiver because the play is designed specifically for that receiver, the others dont run routes to keep space clear and allow the others to make the reads. The plays allow the target receiver read the defense and adjust routes and HH had to read out receiver to know where to throw it.

I will see if I can located that video.

Thank you for that. It would be educational to see it and understand it better......because lets face it, it give a terrible look to our system on first glance. It speaks of laziness, sloppiness, and apathy to be honest. In short, it implies so many things opposite of what the team is doing every day and working so hard to accomplish. Thus it seems so odd from the outside.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Disclaimer: I freely admit, I'm basically a know nothing about the offense, or reading the defense. So this is just the opinion of a Lasko’s Wind Curve.

My focus is on Vol 865's suggestion that the WRs not running routes is to keep them fresh. Could be, what do I know? Actually I've already told you that. However, I think this might underscore an idea I proffered in an earlier post on VN. We have an embarrassing wealth of really good WRs. I think the Heup should take KW's comments to heart. And every so often, have three WRs ready to sprint off the field, while another three sprint on the field, assume their positions, already knowing what pass play will be called, and GO! Don't even bother to get into the huddle, just line up ready. Maybe call it the hair trigger maneuver. Practice it until you got it down perfectly. And, of course, have all the WRs run routes. Constant fresh legs would run a defense ragged, resulting in half a hundred point games or maybe even a full hundred point games. Now, on the other hand, I also freely admit, the adage of, if it ain't broke don't fix it is something not to be ignored. Heup 'em, Josh, baby!

You are right, Woodsman. You don't understand the offense.

Key point to counter your suggestion: we are constantly trying NOT to substitute new players onto the field, so we don't have to give the defense a chance to do the same.

The receivers on the far side of the field have already done their job when the ball is snapped. Just by lining up wide, they have pulled one or two corners and maybe a linebacker or safety far enough from our intended receiver and his route that they're effectively out of the play. That's a win.

After that, there's no need for them to expend energy that play. They can have fresher legs the next play if they take it easy. Especially since we're not substituting.

Fresh legs are a good thing to preserve.

 

[HiltonHeadVol]

If you substitute, the official will not blow the whistle until the defense has had time to substitute. That's why we don't do that.

I don't buy the "substitution" excuse. Let a group of WR run one series and another run the next. These guys are 18-21 years old. They can manage running every other series. I look forward to the vid explaining our system.

Also, it is absolutely true that by not pulling the DB or Safety down the field, the qb has a smaller window to scramble within.....AND no 3rd/4th option to go to if needed.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Thank you for that. It would be educational to see it and understand it better......because lets face it, it give a terrible look to our system on first glance. It speaks of laziness, sloppiness, and apathy to be honest. In short, it implies so many things opposite of what the team is doing every day and working so hard to accomplish. Thus it seems so odd from the outside.

Hilton, I don't agree with that. It only seems to speak of those negative attributes to an observer who has no idea what they're looking at. And we don't really care what uninformed observers think, do we?

NFL scouts and coaches are certainly going to have taken the few minutes required to understand what they're looking at, to "get" Heupel's offense.

It's not like he's the only guy in college football running some version of it. It's simply not that rare.

I don't buy the "substitution" excuse. Let a group of WR run one series and another run the next. These guys are 18-21 years old. They can manage running every other series. I look forward to the vid explaining our system.

It really doesn't matter whether you "buy it," brother. That's what's happening.

 

[OffTackleVol]

A lot of times, the QB has no idea where he’s going with the ball or even what route is happening until he sees how the DBs react to the WR release and reveal their leverage. I almost think the scheme hurts Hyatt’s draft stock more than Hooker’s. Hooker still had to make reads, Hyatt made a living off bad DB reactions to switch releases and eye candy and just hitting the jets.

Yes, good point about Hyatt's draft stock. Scheming got him open more so that his skill and ability.

 

[Vol8188]

I don't buy the "substitution" excuse. Let a group of WR run one series and another run the next. These guys are 18-21 years old. They can manage running every other series. I look forward to the vid explaining our system.

I think you fully misunderstood my post. I never said we shouldn’t change players between series. I think we should.

What I am saying is his idea of having 3 guys just run onto the field real fast is illegal.

 

[HiltonHeadVol]

It’s always funny to me when an offense gets referred to as gimmicky. At different times, the West Coast, Run and Shoot, Fun and Gun, Spread Option and Air Raid were “gimmicks”. . . now you can see elements of them all being run on Sundays.

And I wonder if some of JH's system may make it to Sundays as well. Or do the rules of pro ball prohibit such a system......aka the substitution rules etc.?

 

[GAVol]

Thank you for that. It would be educational to see it and understand it better......because lets face it, it give a terrible look to our system on first glance. It speaks of laziness, sloppiness, and apathy to be honest. In short, it implies so many things opposite of what the team is doing every day and working so hard to accomplish. Thus it seems so odd from the outside.

That's not what is happening at all. Some plays just have a live side and a dead side. Instead of expending energy for the sake of window dressing, sometimes the dead receiver(s) take the play off just to conserve energy.

 

[HiltonHeadVol]

I think you fully misunderstood my post. I never said we shouldn’t change players between series. I think we should.

What I am saying is his idea of having 3 guys just run onto the field real fast is illegal.

Uh, I was actually responding to VFL 82 JP, but i got it.