I'm usually positive

#76
#76
25801VOL said:
But the 2017 class was a major let down. 14th won't get it done here and is similar to what CDD did when he was here. I think this will be CBJ's last year. He's been a great recruiter until this year. We have a lot of holes considering all the underclassmen that have left the program. Blast me, this class is a huge fail outside of a few positions.
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Dooley's had two 6th ranked classes (in the SEC) and one 5th ranked class. His worst star average according to Rivals was 3.37. Jones has now posted two 7th ranked classes in a row with the last one averaging 3.29 stars. The point isn't to defend Dooley at all... it is to point out that he failed while recruiting at the same or perhaps slightly better level than Jones has over the past two classes.

People point to 3* overachievers but every SEC program has those. No one has assembled enough of those overachievers on the same team to win a championship.
 
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#77
#77
Behr said:
Tell me how! I'm all ears.
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You wouldn't listen. You'd just defend butch Bc he "coaches" your team.
You won't accept he wants to be exactly where he is
He plays to people like you and says what you like to hear
Covers up his shortfalls by distracting you - I mean pointing out - how hard it is to coach/recruit in sec
 
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#78
#78
butchna said:
How many are saying great? Rephrase, are ANY saying great?
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Then what are you saying? Is it a "good" class? If so then how can you deny that you are OK with a middling SEC program? Is it a bad class? Then why do you constantly attack people who are honest enough to say so when Butch has "bad" results?

You say you don't hold lower expectations than those critical of Jones... but never seem to come to a point of saying that anything he does isn't good enough. In fact, you just sit back and "sanctimoniously" take shots at people that point out factual reasons that he isn't performing at a championship level.

So again, what are you saying? What is your view of this class and the last one? Show some brass for once and put a reasoned opinion out there to discuss.
 
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#79
#79
igotworms said:
You wouldn't listen. You'd just defend butch Bc he "coaches" your team.
You won't accept he wants to be exactly where he is
He plays to people like you and says what you like to hear
Covers up his shortfalls by distracting you - I mean pointing out - how hard it is to coach/recruit in sec
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I will listen, just said I would.

Where have I defended Butch that wasn't deserving?

"People like you". What about people like me?

If it's so easy why don't you do it, or at least tell me how to do it?
 
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#81
#81
ruger1234 said:
Not great but solid. Needed a blue chip RB, got one. Needed quality help at DT, got it. Needed a blue chip MLB, got one. The number one OT this year and a top five OT coming in next year. The sky aint falling.
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Yeah but are two or three great players in a class going to get it done? What we saw this past year is that once a few starters went down to injury the entire team fell apart and set records (not good records). It's clear that player development isn't happening the right way which means we need a great volume of game changing talent to compete well in the SEC.

The university of Illinois might consider this a good class but we really can't. It isn't going to get it done and no matter how people try to spin it the recruiting is getting worse not better. The bricks are falling out of the wall.
 
#84
#84
sjt18 said:
Then what are you saying? Is it a "good" class? If so then how can you deny that you are OK with a middling SEC program? Is it a bad class? Then why do you constantly attack people who are honest enough to say so when Butch has "bad" results?

You say you don't hold lower expectations than those critical of Jones... but never seem to come to a point of saying that anything he does isn't good enough. In fact, you just sit back and "sanctimoniously" take shots at people that point out factual reasons that he isn't performing at a championship level.

So again, what are you saying? What is your view of this class and the last one? Show some brass for once and put a reasoned opinion out there to discuss.
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Oh get over yourself! "BRASS". :puke5: You've DECLARED what's "acceptable" or not enough for the whole board! And to make the unilateral statement that I haven't criticized Butch in any form or fashion is more of your preening ADHD style. I've criticized his agonizing caution in allowing legitimate returners to play on special teams in favor of SAFE options like Devrin Young, Jacob Carter and most recently Josh Smith...part of his too cautious approach in other areas of coaching. I believed he messed up the Hurd situation by allowing the illusion of mixing in the offset I. There are several other minor differences with our coach but I don't pretend to KNOW what he's capable of adjusting. You have a set narrative on what a successful finished coaching product is and it seems you copied and pasted it from the Nick Saban/Urban Meyer Wiki pages. Bravo, you fake gaseous expert! :clap: Not being able to wait to be right makes you a special kind of brilliant.

Edit: on the recruiting classes? Last year was a homerun...future core of a great team IMO. This season less so , but we scored possibly one of the best OL in recent memory and a possible special RB to go with many needed parts. Nowhere near the disaster you ghouls were praying for.
 
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#88
#88
T-TownVol said:
Touched a nerve huh?
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How in hell do you think THAT touched a nerve. You're funny. It was a legitimate question that obviously you can't answer and tried to distract me with some grade school response.

Good grief.
 
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#89
#89
25801VOL said:
I don't get the QB coach hire or whatever he's called Canales. It just seems like we hire coaches like teams take recruits listed as athletes. We get a coach and put them in a position that really doesn't meet their overall history. Scott, Canales. Did Fair join the staff? It just seems like we don't have any real direction. We can't compete in the SEC, or even the SEC east ranked 14th. USC and Florida are both near ranking and UGA, well that dud drove his team into a ditch and pulled in the 3rd ranked class in America.


Three stars don't win. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Florida State and Michigan don't have this type of class. I guess our administration and BOT see 10 wins as the ceiling for our program. Maybe I'm the one for thinking we're more than that.
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Butch hires new coaches so he can fire them and act like it wasn't his fault when things hit the fan.

Does anybody really believe that the strength and conditioning coach we had produced all those injuries or maybe it was bad coaching and not having your players consistently in the right place. Well all I know is that it's real easy to fire the S&C coach.
 
#90
#90
1974Vol said:
Well historically we are the number 2 program in the SEC you just have to be an old coot like me to remember that. It's less about being 14th nationally than being what 7th or 8th in the SEC?
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This exactly. Why do people think that we have always been middle of the pack SEC?
 
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#91
#91
Behr said:
How in hell do you think THAT touched a nerve. You're funny. It was a legitimate question that obviously you can't answer and tried to distract me with some grade school response.

Good grief.
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"status Quo".......Gotcha......carry on.......
 
#92
#92
Behr said:
How in hell do you think THAT touched a nerve. You're funny. It was a legitimate question that obviously you can't answer and tried to distract me with some grade school response.

Good grief.
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He's relevant...just ask him.
 
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#93
#93
MWAVolfan said:
Butch hires new coaches so he can fire them and act like it wasn't his fault when things hit the fan.

Does anybody really believe that the strength and conditioning coach we had produced all those injuries or maybe it was bad coaching and not having your players consistently in the right place. Well all I know is that it's real easy to fire the S&C coach.
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He was never HIRED for that position. He took over those duties. He's not been fired either. Other than that, spot on. :salute:
 
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#94
#94
butchna said:
He was never HIRED for that position. He took over those duties. He's not been fired either. Other than that, spot on. :salute:
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He is no longer responsible for what he was put in charge of. Is that better? Lol
 
#98
#98
Rudy123 said:
Why are people so in love with Chip Kelly? He did horribly at Philly & at S.F. He ripped the NFL teams rosters and filled it with a bunch of poor players.
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Kelly (as a CFB coach = instant credibility and relevancy...something we are seriously missing right now). Lets call a spade a spade, outside of Stoops at KY, Jones is probably the least feared SEC coach. I appreciate all he has done to right the ship. But CBJ aint going to make us elite. If I polled a random non-TN fan, on which SEC coach they'd least like face...I think Coach Jones would probably be behind even Derrick Mason. That is the current TN perception. To get that National Respect you got to earn it....and we were woefully short last season. I mean look at the Nebraska game, if they'd had any sort of halfway competent QB, that would have been a lot closer game. At this point, I would much rather have Gary Patterson or Troy Calhoun, heck maybe even Larry Fedora.
 
#99
#99
OrngeChkrboardVFL said:
Big time recruits want to go to big time programs in the now. Butch had great recruiting success because we were on the up and up and could possibly make a move. This last season gave a whole lotta ammunition to other coaches to dissuade recruits from coming to Rocky Top. Jalen Hurd leaving was huge. Why on earth would the star running back that was virtually one of, if not the, face of the team decide to transfer mid season? How did Tennessee possibly lose to South Carolina and Vandy w/ all that talent? Recruits see that stuff. Red flags, alarms, whatever. Now that Butch has proven to make in game mistakes and no longer can fall back on recruiting, he better pray for a miracle season. And this is coming from a Butch Jones fan.
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I'll add that he couldn't back fill with legacies to make it look better.
 
#100
#100
Jeepkuntry said:
If it makes you feel better, 247 has us ranked 17. We haven't pulled a surprise 4 or 5 star in a couple years. We've been plowing along with mainly 3 stars the past two recruiting classes. This will get us 6 or 7 wins, but won't allow for us to compete for SEC championships.
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I'm almost certain Kongbo was a surprise..
 
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